Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Convince one of your beloved "expert bible scholars" to come over here and answer my question; then I'll show you how legitimate I am.

You're a cartoon character.

You are already proving yourself not to be legitimate.
You are an apologist for some sect. That's all.
They might get impressed because they are stupid.

 

[Blain]

Not according to Mat 7:23 did He "for-knew everyman".

Well that verse is not saying that he didn'ty know them literally it is a phrase that means something more intimate not that he did not have knowledge of them or didn't know them as a person but rather he didn't know them in the sense of intimacy the more personal meaning

 

[Rufus]

So, to change the direction of a narrative, one can simply ask a question based upon any biblically based subject that is unrelated to what was being covered?

Sleight of hand is a technique...
Conceived to destroy another's sense of direction.

What's being "covered" in this thread are the Five Doctrines of Grace and my question is firmly rooted in this doctrines. Quit stalling for time and making excuses, Mr. Empty Suit. If you don't know the answer to my question, then SWALLOW your PRIDE and admit it -- and then I'll enlighten you.

 

[Genez]

Incorrect he pricks every person's conscience

And he decides who are his

And it's you who are confused

1 you can't repent

2 you call sin not evil

3. You call people names for no good reason

4. You think your a teacher and your a terrible one.

5 your full of lies.

That sounds like the mindset of the accusers of Jesus before they crucified Him.

Tell me?
Do you pay dues to be in that club?

 

[Blain]

You're a cartoon character.

You are already proving yourself not to be legitimate.
You are an apologist for some sect. That's all.
They might get impressed because they are stupid.

I would suggest that we calm down with each other we can be civil or not be civil but it is the fruits of the spirit that we need to be showing even if we disagree with each other hurling insults at each other is not very Christian

 

[Genez]

What's being "covered" in this thread are the Five Doctrines of Grace and my question is firmly rooted in this doctrines. Quit stalling for time and making excuses, Mr. Empty Suit. If you don't know the answer to my question, then SWALLOW your PRIDE and admit it -- and then I'll enlighten you.

You are not worth defeating before others.
For the ones who matter see you as already defeated.

You need to start seeing your accusations as pertaining to who you are.
Until then. You are being trapped by what you deny about yourself.
You deny denial.

 

[Rufus]

You're a cartoon character.

You are already proving yourself not to be legitimate.
You are an apologist for some sect. That's all.
They might get impressed because they are stupid.

Well, Mr. Blowhard, since I'm all these things, then why haven't YOU come up with any solutions to the theological problems I presented in 27,679, 27,725 and 27,934 that deal with FWers' willful misunderstanding of the Gr. term "kosmos"?

 

[Rufus]

Well that verse is not saying that he didn'ty know them literally it is a phrase that means something more intimate not that he did not have knowledge of them or didn't know them as a person but rather he didn't know them in the sense of intimacy the more personal meaning

Correct. Christ literally did not have any intimate, personal, covenant relationship/knowledge with the people being addressed in Mat 7:23 -- which is exactly the same thing going on in reverse in Rom 8:28-30; for in this latter passage God precisely had that kind of relationship/knowledge with those WHOM He [fore]knew in eternity.

 

[Rufus]

You are not worth defeating before others.
For the ones who matter see you as already defeated.

You need to start seeing your accusations as pertaining to who you are.
Until then. You are being trapped by what you deny about yourself.
You deny denial.

Quit flattering yourself. You couldn't defeat a wet paper sack hanging on your head.

 

[BillyBob]

You are confusing how God controls who is to live, and who is to die.
With, who is to get nasty and say bad things in a forum because he wanted to.

God does not make the nasty believer to be nasty. But, He controls that he would
be present in the forum.

See the difference?

I think that you may be underestimating God's control of events.
All men are corrupt and evil to some degree. But, God is in control of their actions. He can intervene to prevent it, which is a blessing, or step away and allow it to continue.
Either way, it is His will!

 

[Jordon]

Not according to Mat 7:23 did He "for-knew everyman".

Depends if you separate the trinity

Which indeed you are.

He for-knows everyone. And it doesn't mean because he says I never knew you he doesn't for-know everyone, nobody is without excuse. And his light is made known to all.

I never knew you means most likely means my father never handed you over to me as well as this .


But also he said this to the people who he was knowing at the time ?

In other words he was saying I came to know you but this happened

John 1 the true meaning of I did not know you
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.


Bye

 

[Rufus]

1. Jonah preached the message to Nineveh given to him by God, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."
2. The people of Nineveh believe God, repented, and cried out to God.
3. Verse 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

God was going to overthrow them in forty days. That's what he said. Nineveh repented. God did not overthrow them as he stated.

Genez is actually right for a change, proving that blind squirrels can actually find a chestnut or two occasionally. God did not change his mind since He is not a man that He should do such a thing (Num 23:19). God's perfect will is as IMMUTABLE as his character is.

So...when it says in Jonah that God "repented of the evil that he said he would do" that should be understood as anthropomorphic language. After all, God not only ordains all ends but the means to those ends, as well, which in this case was the threat of destruction of Nineveh in 40 days if the Assyrians didn't repent.

 

[Blain]

Correct. Christ literally did not have any intimate, personal, covenant relationship/knowledge with the people being addressed in Mat 7:23 -- which is exactly the same thing going on in reverse in Rom 8:28-30; for in this latter passage God precisely had that kind of relationship/knowledge with those WHOM He [fore]knew in eternity.

Precisely and this form of intimacy is not known with everyone who calls him Lord, note that they were able to in faith cast out demons and prophesy yet even with the ability to do so they were not known by him so one is able to do the works of the kingdom but still be left out of his knowledge and his
acknowledgeable sight. still though the mere fact they were able to do so says something about faith




https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...MD6rpWRAxUJm2oFHYRTKkwQyNoBKAB6BAgaEAA&ictx=1

 

[Rufus]

Can God choose not to know the outcome of every event?

No, He cannot! But He can and has chosen in eternity the persons with whom He will enter into a personal, intimate, covenant relationship in this age.

 

[Blain]

No, He cannot! But He can and has chosen in eternity the persons with whom He will enter into a personal, intimate, covenant relationship in this age.

I would disagree on the terms of this 1 Timothy 2:4 is a key Bible verse often cited to show that God desires all people to be saved: "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". Other related verses include 2 Peter 3:9, which states that the Lord is "not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance," and 1 Timothy 4:10, which calls God the "Savior of all people"

 

[Rufus]

He doesn't need to because he sees every instance every outcome every situation and his understanding of eternity is far beyond ours

He doesn't understand time or the out come of things like we do we will never be able to comprehend his way of doing things. think of this say that there is a person before God and God is showing them every outcome for every choice they ever made or didn't make thousands of different outcomes would be shown if not millions because every choice we do or don't make has a different outcome and then that outcome is also based on the choices others made as well it is like a ripple effect

God sees and knows all period and we never know or understand the small choices we make or don't make and how far they go. this is why we must consider how eternity works because with our human understanding we see only what our limited view can but he sees and knows all

And God sees and knows all because the ways of the sons of men are NOT in ourselves but in God's hands (Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23, etc.)

 

[Blain]

And God sees and knows all because the ways of the sons of men are NOT in ourselves but in God's hands (Jer 10:23; Dan 5:23, etc.)

This is true however he also does guide us and that is the key word here guide or direct he leaves room for our choices but knows the outcome of every choice

 

[John146]

It literally says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." That is God speaking.

Yes, the body was not yet formed. Upon conception, before one is formed, God knows us. The moment we come into existence...

Psalm 139
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

 

[Rufus]

I would disagree on the terms of this 1 Timothy 2:4 is a key Bible verse often cited to show that God desires all people to be saved: "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". Other related verses include 2 Peter 3:9, which states that the Lord is "not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance," and 1 Timothy 4:10, which calls God the "Savior of all people"

The passages you cite have been refuted often because FWers interpret them out of context. 2Pet 3:9 is addressed to Jewish believers toward which God is patient. The text does not say that God is not wishing than anyone in the world should not perish -- but that "any" should not perish. And the "any" in its context is referring back to the nearest antecedent which is "you" in v. 9.

1Tim 2:4 is qualified by Paul in v. 7. The "all people" is limited to the GENTILES to whom Paul was commissioned to preach the gospel. Therefore, "all" cannot logically be understood in the distributive sense.

 

[John146]

God did not change his mind.

He simply presented Himself as one who will not fail, to get them to change their mind.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.