The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation
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I guess you could say then your doing his active will and hardening our hearts to unbelief in mercy
Yes, and since you are so antsy I will go ahead and post the next train car:
The only viable alternative to atheism is NT theism, the belief that a/one supernatural Supreme Being exists, who has a moral will for humanity, with which humans may cooperate or not (cf. Gen. 17:1). NT theism reformed the OT concept by revealing that the one almighty God is also all-loving. (The NT concept of God is described more fully in Parts III and IV, but at this point see 1Tim. 2:3-7.) It views God as creating and communicating by means of His Word (Logos in John 1:1), and it affirms that the world is created intentionally rather than accidentally âbangedâ from a âsingularityâ (Rom. 1:20&25).
The atheist opinion indicates that the existence of a supernatural Deity is not proven, although it is not disproved either, which means that the evidence needs to be evaluated honestly. Atheists assert that one cannot prove a negative, so the burden is on theists to prove God exists. However, this assertion assumes God is not the positive âI AMâ (see axiomatic belief #1).
A neutral statement about ultimate reality is the following: âIt is logical to remain open to believing all credible possibilities (those which present sufficient evidence) and to hope the most desirable rational possibility is true.â Alternatively, the Bible indicates that the purpose of this life is rather for humans to prove to God they are worthy ofâor qualify forâheaven (cf. Deut. 6:16 & Matt. 4:7).
This discussion shows that everyone lives by faith regarding God or ultimate reality (2Cor. 5:7), and the structure of earthly reality forces souls to choose between various contradictory beliefs and to make (albeit sometimes rather subconsciously) the two watershed choices described: between nihilism and moralism, and between the various atheistic beliefs and the highest type of theism, NT Christianity. (For reasons explained in the next parts, I believe the last is best: Let there be God!)
Well I believe we should not be equally yoked to unbelievers, however I'm not sure what your getting at with you saying I'm in antsy.
But I guess that's another attempt to poke the bear.
Only I'm more of bear than you think,
For instance I work with atheists everyday, I know the lord has spoken to them even when they don't, do I argue with them.
No I don't, you want to know why, well because I have to build a working environment for all to feel safe that they will be treated with respect,
I serve them meals everyday i sought there rota out everyday, I watch over them everyday on CCTV, I even decided who they can best work with.
So I know more than you think my friend.
"Antsy" means impatient, referring to you saying "only one will that matters", poking me to stop being pokey in presenting
the train car of NT theism.
Your reason for not arguing with atheists is akin to why I avoid arguing on CC.
Not sure why you said you know more than I think.
impatient really explain why i waited a whole week before speaking with you again"Antsy" means impatient, referring to you saying "only one will that matters", poking me to stop being pokey in presenting
the train car of NT theism.
Your reason for not arguing with atheists is akin to why I avoid arguing on CC.
Not sure why you said you know more than I think.
That's funny friend, but you still have not said the real reason.The choice is yours.
But if you must know why I stopped speaking to you
Well I waited for 24 hours until an answer came for me to reply to this.The choice is yours.
I could have said the first thought that came into my head yesterday.
But nar.
So here is your answer.
Have a guess what it could be
That's funny friend, but you still have not said the real reason.
But if you must know why I stopped speaking to you
Well I waited for 24 hours until an answer came for me to reply to this.
I could have said the first thought that came into my head yesterday.
But nar.
So here is your answer.
Have a guess what it could be
It is good not to express sinful thoughts.
While I appreciate humor, I dislike playing games on CC, especially ping-pong (arguing) and guessing games.
So please comment on the logical train of thought through the car of NT theism.
A discussion works both ways. Your ideas gives mainly the atheist his own ideas as to why he rejects God.
Where as here this passage says that God has revealed himself to everyone through his divine nature in them. But they rejected him and worship idols
What other reasons can a unbelievers willingness reject God.
Through inner rebellion.
And they go onto even encouraging others to do the same, in unrighteous behaviour even tho they have evidence of God in the world and in them , they are not able to what is right.
This paints a picture of a darkness mind willfully rejecting God.
Romans 1:18-32
Godâs Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world Godâs invisible qualitiesâhis eternal power and divine natureâhave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorâwho is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know Godâs righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
By citing Rom. 1:18-32 the train of thought moves forward to the car presenting evidence for belief in the NT God:
Atheists claim there is no more evidence for the existence of God, the Creator and Judge of humanity, than for the reality of obviously fictional entities, such as Odin or unicorns. However, four types of evidence or reasoning may be viewed as supporting rational belief in God, although they do not prove He exists: the unique universe, theocentric human history, existential need and moral conscience.
Current scientific theory states that the universe began with a âbangâ, when a marble of matter or a singularity of energy suddenly exploded, and that it will end with a âwhimperâ when the stars eventually fade to darkness. This unique universe theory is compatible or consistent with belief in a God who created the universe âex nihiloâ, who sustains it by His power, and who will judge its moral agents at the end of time.
Current knowledge of world history suggests that humanity descended from one genetic source and evolved into various cultures. Throughout history humanity has perceived deity to be the ground of meaning and morality. The first people to perceive God were named Adam (Gen. 2:7) and Eve (Gen. 2:22 & 3:20). Theocentric history reached its apex or spiritual climax with the NT teaching that there is one almighty and all-loving God, who desires all humanity to live in harmony on earth and also in heaven, and who allows humanity to experience earthly existence including pain and disappointment (KOTH) for the purpose of teaching them their need for Him (cf. Heb. 12:10).
Current existential reality indicates that mortals need God in order to obtain immortality, that morality needs God for a universal imperative and ultimate justice, and that the NT offers the best hope that this âduo of desirablesâ (DOD) or heaven and justice/hell can be attained. Just as physical needs are satisfied by material realities, perhaps our metaphysical needs indicate the reality of supernatural solutions (the God of the DOD).
Moral conscience indicates and logically requires accountability to a moral authority, and the supreme Authority would be God. Paul wrote (in Rom. 1:32 & 2:15) that people âknow Godâs decree that those who do evil deserve deathâ and that their consciences âshow that the requirements of the [Godâs moral] law are written on their hearts.â Our feeble attempts at earthly justice may reflect or serve as evidence of Godâs perfect justice. This view is similar to Platonic idealism (cf. 1Cor. 13:12, Heb. 8:5, 9:23 & 10:1). We may perceive perfect justice partially (1Cor. 13:9-12) using spiritual eyes/intuition/a sixth sense along with inference, logic, and even imagination. [Slashes indicate essentially equivalent terms.]
Over...
so basically then your reasoning with a naturalist who will not listen to reason.
I believe your also reasoning to skeptical scientists to, who like to argue the big bang was the beginning, but can't prove what caused the big bang, and even then they hold Good to there belief.
What a hard time your giving yourself, limiting God to an atheists view, holds a valid argument for not believing.
The scientist also say there is no control to the universe and it just nature that's governed by chaos, and chemistry interacting with each other.
Yep that's limiting God alright.
And they do it because why
Well there minds are darkened, and what they doing is convincing people there is no God.
People will then choose to live in sin forever.
Yes, people are free to choose darkness and sin, but our discussion has prompted a fine-tuning insight to what I say on the website,
so thanks! It is this in Part IV of Lesson 1:
"The astute atheist will realize that the logical train of thought from Descartes to the PP is common sense and available to every
normal human adult, which is why there is no excuse for disbelief in God (Rom. 1:20). On the contrary, it is the reason Christians can have confidence or bet that their faith is correct (Heb. 10:19&35, Phil. 3:3-7, Eph. 3:12) and it is the atheists whose faith is blind."
This is the point im making, the belief your expressing is there free to choose darkness and sin by there free will, which should tell you alone there free will is living in the flesh. but with the same chose there free will you say can choose to be saved in your book.
Is that a chose that holds any value to God ?
Surely there has the a reason they can choose salvation , it has to be God's enabling grace surely that comes first, which is his Godly sorrow illuminating there heart.
This is what is meant also by nobody is with excuse, as God desires all to be saved meaning at some point theres going to have there heart illuminated by God, by God's Godly sorrow, which leads to repentance then salvation.
I can't see any other way round you should try to convince an atheist.
as they will know they've felt condemned before.
This evidence is not proof, but because this hope and belief are based on evidence and logic, it is rational rather than âblindâ, and it is made even more intellectually reasonable or defensible by acknowledging ways God would be disproved, which include the following:
1. If atheists or anti-Christians created eternal life, because the Bible teaches that eternal life is Godâs gift only to believers in Him (John 3:16).
2. If the body of Jesus of Nazareth were discovered in a tomb, because Paul stated that if Christ is not resurrected, then faith is useless (1Cor. 15:14).
3. If it were proven that moral free will (MFW) is an illusion, because the premise of biblical morality is that human souls are accountable (Deut. 30:19-20).
4. If human-like beings on another planet had no salvation history involving God and Christ, because the Bible teaches that God is Lord of all (Phil. 2:9-11). (Caveat: If they are included in the Great Commission, their history would be like the OT.)
5. If God could prove His existence to people without abrogating free will (cf. 2Cor. 5:7), but apparently God performs miracles only as necessary to accomplish His plan of salvation.
6. If it were proved that the universe is not created, because resurrection or re-creation presupposes creation and thus a Creator (Acts 17:24-31).