Speaking in tongues

[Blain]

The fact that anyone could just babble any old gibberish in their services, and these people would believe it is speaking in tongues - possibly with someone else even "interpreting" the gobbledygook by announcing a false prophecy (it certainly wouldn't be the first), should in itself should tell you they have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to tongues, interpretation of the tongues, or discerning spirits. If these people really were speaking in (real) tongues, they would easily be able to identify a faker. That they can't proves they are all deceivers and deceived.

Yes it likely would be easy to trick them and that is why discernment is required when dealing with tongues. it is a goft that your spirit can feel when you are dealing with the real thing, if you have ever spoken in tongues or been around actual tongues you likely could feel the spirits power inside you sparking up but sadly there are so many fakes out there and so little discernemtn that any babbling can be seen as tongues

 

[PaulThomson]

The point is that Jesus is our example and if he didn't require the gift of tongues to be filled with the spirit why do we need to be? not to mention the gift of tongues has a specific purpose and that purpose is to edify and empower the body so if tongues was needed or if tongues is recieved it is for that purpose not to show that one has the spirit in them nowhere in scripture does it state that tongues is the sign of the holy ghost

That is not the purpose of tongues. The intention of persons speaking in tongues should be to edify the assembly hoping for an interpretation (when done publicly) or to edify themselves (believing the Holy Spirit is by-passing the carnal mind to impart knowledge, understanding and wisdom to one's spirit which will come to one's mind later, when done privately).

I do agree that tongues is not always the initial sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Someone who doea not speak in tongues can nevertheless still operate in a different gift.

 

[Blain]

That is not the purpose of tongues. The intention of persons speaking in tongues should be to edify the assembly hoping for an interpretation (when done publicly) or to edify themselves (believing the Holy Spirit is by-passing the carnal mind to impart knowledge, understanding and wisdom to one's spirit which will come to one's mind later, when done privately).

I do agree that tongues is not always the initial sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Someone who doea not speak in tongues can nevertheless still operate in a different gift.

That is not the purpose of tongues. The intention of persons speaking in tongues should be to edify the assembly hoping for an interpretation (when done publicly) or to edify themselves (believing the Holy Spirit is by-passing the carnal mind to impart knowledge, understanding and wisdom to one's spirit which will come to one's mind later, when done privately).

I do agree that tongues is not always the initial sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Someone who doea not speak in tongues can nevertheless still operate in a different gift.

Scripture says the gift of tongues is meant for various purposes, including praising God, serving as a sign to unbelievers, and edifying the church through interpretation. It allows believers to speak in unknown languages, which can be for personal prayer or to communicate the wonders of God in another earthly language.

 

[Wansvic]

The point is that Jesus is our example and if he didn't require the gift of tongues to be filled with the spirit why do we need to be? not to mention the gift of tongues has a specific purpose and that purpose is to edify and empower the body so if tongues was needed or if tongues is recieved it is for that purpose not to show that one has the spirit in them nowhere in scripture does it state that tongues is the sign of the holy ghost

Blain, please consider what scripture itself reveals:

Jesus said, the Heavenly Father would give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) And, Paul asked, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? (Acts 19) Think about it, if there is no accompanying evidence how does a person know whether they need to ask God for the Holy Ghost? Also, Paul's question to the 12 men in Acts 19 indicates people can know whether they have or have not received the Holy Ghost.

All detailed conversion accounts, including Acts 19, indicate tongues was the sign that the experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost had taken place.

 

[Wansvic]

That is not the purpose of tongues. The intention of persons speaking in tongues should be to edify the assembly hoping for an interpretation (when done publicly) or to edify themselves (believing the Holy Spirit is by-passing the carnal mind to impart knowledge, understanding and wisdom to one's spirit which will come to one's mind later, when done privately).

I do agree that tongues is not always the initial sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Someone who doea not speak in tongues can nevertheless still operate in a different gift.

I'm curious. What do you conclude, if anything, from the fact that the biblical record specifically reveals that 100% of those in the detailed accounts spoke in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Albert]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit is not given from Men but By God! What they did was wrong! I'm so glad you went and prayed because it sounds to me God gave you the correct wisdom in your thinking.

1 Corinthians 12 27-30
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[b]? Do all interpret?

NO! Not everyone gets the gifts of Tongues and also tongues being spoken upon in a way without an interpreter is actually against the what scripture tells us to do. The way they did it to you is abominable and You need to hear this...I'm am sorry you was subjected to such rediculous behavior and your actions was correct against their behavior. A True Church service with tongues would have an interpreter also but also.


1 Corinthians 14:27-28
New International Version
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.


What you witnessed and testified is appalling and disobedience that was done to God but also to you...I am so sorry... I know I didn't do it to you but you need to hear it. You did nothing wrong and I ask you to find another church to got to that actually Obey God in true worship. The fact you left a Church service feeling discouraged is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Joy of The Lord is what the Holy Spirit gives us
...

 

[Wansvic]

The gifts of the Holy Spirit is not given from Men but By God! What they did was wrong! I'm so glad you went and prayed because it sounds to me God gave you the correct wisdom in your thinking.

1 Corinthians 12 27-30
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[b]? Do all interpret?

NO! Not everyone gets the gifts of Tongues and also tongues being spoken upon in a way without an interpreter is actually against the what scripture tells us to do. The way they did it to you is abominable and You need to hear this...I'm am sorry you was subjected to such rediculous behavior and your actions was correct against their behavior. A True Church service with tongues would have an interpreter also but also.


1 Corinthians 14:27-28
New International Version
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.


What you witnessed and testified is appalling and disobedience that was done to God but also to you...I am so sorry... I know I didn't do it to you but you need to hear it. You did nothing wrong and I ask you to find another church to got to that actually Obey God in true worship. The fact you left a Church service feeling discouraged is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Joy of The Lord is what the Holy Spirit gives us
...

Although certainly overzealous, the individuals were praying for Blain to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit not the spiritual gift of tongues. in every detailed conversion account, 100% of the individuals spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. The experiences had nothing to do with presenting messages in an unknown tongue that were then revealed via the gift of interpretation. Many fail to rightly divide the word of truth. It is through doing so that people come to realize there are various manifestations and purposes for speaking in tongues.

 

[Albert]

Although certainly overzealous, the individuals were praying for Blain to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit not the spiritual gift of tongues. in every detailed conversion account, 100% of the individuals spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. The experiences had nothing to do with presenting messages in an unknown tongue that were then revealed via the gift of interpretation. Many fail to rightly divide the word of truth. It is through doing so that people come to realize there are various manifestations and purposes for speaking in tongues.

I understand your reasonings But as You said, " Over zealousness" in which I have found can be such a damage to people of faith as I witnessed walking with Jesus Christ. Also it seemed as it was described that they used this over zealousness to try to force him to receive a Gift that God may not have even ordained in his life. I have been to churches who have done familiar things and then I was lead to a Church who is truly Functioning with The gifts of The Holy Spirit and was like one was Chaotic and the other was completely in Order of God's ordained step for the plan he has for each individual member and also not frightening any unbeliever who may attend. I have sent the passages how Gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used and not used..I believe your referring to acts when all received The Holy Spirit and everyone of them spoke with flaming tongues in an unknown language......No where in that scripture did it say men tried to teach others how to speak the language and this is part of the testimony that is clearly the main issue that it is not of The Spirit. Because when God's Holy Spirit fills us, The unknown language just flows out a believer without any other teacher. I'll describe it as We are filled By the Holy Spirit, the joy of the Lord in us just can't be contained but we lift up our voices to Praise The Lord Jesus so is the gift of tongues, that the language has to be spoken by the Holy Spirit and him alone.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians ch 13 v 5 ~ Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you- unless you actually fail the test?

 

[PaulThomson]

I'm curious. What do you conclude, if anything, from the fact that the biblical record specifically reveals that 100% of those in the detailed accounts spoke in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Spirit?

Act 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
No tongues mentioned there.

Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
No tongues mentioned there either.

 

[Charlesiii]

You spew condemnation of people you don't even know and lack understanding of the text in 1cor chapter 12 through 14. You make your experience (negative ones) authoritative over the word of GOD. For every bad experience you have had and error or immaturity of those who have misused the gifts of the Holy Spirit Just like the office of Pastor , does not mean they are not needed of for today.

You completely refuse to see the context presented to as to why the empowering of the Holy Spirit is necessary. Jesus told us.

Acts 1:8 power to be a witness of HIM. Paul who could have stated during the abuses in Corinthian churches TO stop speaking in tongues. He did not. Paul reinforced the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in chapter 14. BUT Paul provided how they are to be used.

You purposely refuse to acknowledge this truth. why? You are so understanding of the word of God and called o be a teacher then teach me . Show me in the word of GOD where
the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. Not by your bad experiences because I too have had them yet I have also had wonder ones too and every bad one you have many have had very godly ones. Let me know Biblically if you can.

Have you, in your tongue-speaking experience, ever had someone speak in gibberish at church, and had an interpreter (or interpreters) speak up and say, "Wait, that's not a real tongue, that's gibberish"? Or have you experienced a false interpreter give a false interpretation, and have a true interpreter speak up and say "Wait, that wasn't the true interpretation of the tongue, this is"? If not, why not? Statistically speaking, given the number of charlatans I've experienced in my own life, it should have happened on multiple occasions within even a year, if the gifts being practiced every Sunday (or more often) are real and not make-believe.

I hold it doesn't happen because of the latter reason. I'm not saying all tongue-speakers or interpreters are deceived or deceiving, but certainly, in my experience, most of them. And given that most of them are deceivers, that puts a duty on me, as a Christian, to make sure those who are claiming spiritual gifts are legitimate in their claims, if I am going to treat their messages as if they are from God.

 

[DeanM]

I once heard Don Swaggart preaching on tongues and all of a sudden he started tongue talking. Seemed scripted to me.

 

[Wansvic]

Act 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
No tongues mentioned there.

Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
No tongues mentioned there either.

I would appreciate it if you would address my comment regarding tongues as the sign people were filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 11:15, 19:1-7)

And in response to your mention of Acts 4:8, the account does not say that Peter experienced being filled at the moment. However, scripture does reveal that Peter was indeed a man filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:2-4)

As for Acts 4:31, the lack of a specific reference to speaking in tongues does not mean the experience did not occur. Many scriptures do not include every detail.

Using silence as a way to establish what is and is not true is faulty. We are to consider what scripture specifically reveals rather than seeking some way to avoid accepting what it says.

I look forward to your thoughts.

 

[Blain]

Blain, please consider what scripture itself reveals:

Jesus said, the Heavenly Father would give the Holy Ghost to those who ask. (Luke 11:13) And, Paul asked, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? (Acts 19) Think about it, if there is no accompanying evidence how does a person know whether they need to ask God for the Holy Ghost? Also, Paul's question to the 12 men in Acts 19 indicates people can know whether they have or have not received the Holy Ghost.

All detailed conversion accounts, including Acts 19, indicate tongues was the sign that the experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost had taken place.

Except scripture never says that in fact it only indicates it which is not solid enough evidence that tongues is in fact the sign of receiving the holy ghost

Scripture indicates many things but indicating something is not sufficient evidence
Scripture even speaks of tongues in this way 1 Corinthians 12L30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not

Romans

 

[CS1]

Have you, in your tongue-speaking experience, ever had someone speak in gibberish at church, and had an interpreter (or interpreters) speak up and say, "Wait, that's not a real tongue, that's gibberish"? Or have you experienced a false interpreter give a false interpretation, and have a true interpreter speak up and say "Wait, that wasn't the true interpretation of the tongue, this is"? If not, why not? Statistically speaking, given the number of charlatans I've experienced in my own life, it should have happened on multiple occasions within even a year, if the gifts being practiced every Sunday (or more often) are real and not make-be and are believe.

I hold it doesn't happen because of the latter reason. I'm not saying all tongue-speakers or interpreters are deceived or deceiving, but certainly, in my experience, most of them. And given that most of them are deceivers, that puts a duty on me, as a Christian, to make sure those who are claiming spiritual gifts are legitimate in their claims, if I am going to treat their messages as if they are from God.

first off what is gibberish? and are you assuming that interpretation is a translation from one language to another?

Because Tongues and the interpretation of tongues is equal to prophesying according to the Greek in 1cor chapter 14.

You have to understand what speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is. IF you notice in 1cor chapter 12 Paul says:

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

in chapter 14 Paul says:


"14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification."


This is very important to the text and context.

1. no one can speak under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit will say things that are contrary to the word of GOD. That why we judge what is said by the word of GOD the tongues and interpretation = prophesying which all are to judge.
Those who speak in tongues no man can interpret. IT is speaking to GOD. No one can understand therefore it has to be a language unknown that man cannot understand it. BUT ONLY GOD. Yet this still have a godly way to validate what is being said through the interpretation.

2. IF a person speaks in the assembly out loud in a unknown language and then a person speaking or another person interprets what is being said and the interpretation Edifies, comforts, and build up or provides conformation to the church or person(s)
who can you call that Gibberish?


3. the cause of the tongues line up with he effects and the word of God? Does it do what it is suppose to do? Was God Gloried ? If not what is suppose to happen? The Pastor , Elders, Deacons are to tell them to stop and speak quietly to yourself.


4. I have personally seen and have been used in Tongues and interpretation of Tongues and Prophesying. False interpretation.

are people who are used by the Holy Spirit able to make mistakes? when you say false interpretation I take that as those who do so in the context of lying. I have one question for you. Does the Holy Spirit control ones mouth and what they are going to say when they are speaking in tongues or interpreting ?


Moving on:

The gifts should never be practiced. And if your experience has been one of unbiblical manifestations welcome to the club. None more than the office of Pastor.
Lying devils , yep. Charlatans yep. Deceivers yep. YET in all that The word of GOD still is the measuring rod by which we examine, prove and accept what is being said and done in the church setting.

You can't be exhorted if not corrected. You can't be edified if you are being lied to. and you can't have confirmation without the word of GOD.

 

[Wansvic]

Except scripture never says that in fact it only indicates it which is not solid enough evidence that tongues is in fact the sign of receiving the holy ghost

Scripture indicates many things but indicating something is not sufficient evidence
Scripture even speaks of tongues in this way 1 Corinthians 12L30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not

Romans

1 Corinthian 12 pertains to spiritual gifts. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

As I pointed out, if no proof accompanies the initial experience how does a person know whether they need to ask for the Holy Ghost or not? Luke 11:13, Acts 19:1

 

[Blain]

1 Corinthian 12 pertains to spiritual gifts. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

As I pointed out, if no proof accompanies the initial experience how does a person know whether they need to ask for the Holy Ghost or not? Luke 11:13, Acts 19:1

And what does scripture say is the evidence of the spirit? does it say tongues is the evidence? no it doesn't nowhere does it state that tongues is the evidence of the spirit in us what does say is the evidence is love and the fruits of the spirit not the giftitng of it but the fruits of it

 

[Wansvic]

Except scripture never says that in fact it only indicates it which is not solid enough evidence that tongues is in fact the sign of receiving the holy ghost

Scripture indicates many things but indicating something is not sufficient evidence
Scripture even speaks of tongues in this way 1 Corinthians 12L30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not

Romans

Another point relative to the topic:
One would expect some of those in the detailed accounts would not have spoken in tongues when they were filled with the Holy Ghost. If that had happened it would reveal Paul's words pertained to that experience. And that is just not the case. Read them. 100% of the individuals had the experience. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 19:1-7) And it is revealed that individuals knew they had not received the Holy Ghost, and days later knew they had had the experience. (Acts 8:12-18)

Peter actually stated that tongues proved Cornelius and others had received the Holy Ghost:
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. (See Acts 2:4, 10:45-46)
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift (Holy Ghost) as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?" Acts 11:15-17


With that, I ask that you pray about it. And May God Bless.

 

[PaulThomson]

I would appreciate it if you would address my comment regarding tongues as the sign people were filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4, 10:43-48, 11:15, 19:1-7)

And in response to your mention of Acts 4:8, the account does not say that Peter experienced being filled at the moment. However, scripture does reveal that Peter was indeed a man filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:2-4)

As for Acts 4:31, the lack of a specific reference to speaking in tongues does not mean the experience did not occur. Many scriptures do not include every detail.

Using silence as a way to establish what is and is not true is faulty. We are to consider what scripture specifically reveals rather than seeking some way to avoid accepting what it says.

I look forward to your thoughts.

You made a claim about 100% of New testament texts on being filled with the Spirit. I gave two that do not say the spoke in tongues. You seem to be suggesting that unless the Bible says somewhere, "So-and-so was/were filled with the Spirit but did not speak in tongues" then we should logically conclude that where it says they were filled with the Spirit, they did speak in tongues. That is the logical fallacy of begging the question.

 

[Wansvic]

And what does scripture say is the evidence of the spirit? does it say tongues is the evidence? no it doesn't nowhere does it state that tongues is the evidence of the spirit in us what does say is the evidence is love and the fruits of the spirit not the giftitng of it but the fruits of it

See post 338. Peter stated tongues was the evidence of the initial infilling.

The fruit of the Spirit does not manifest at the initial infilling. Fruit is the result of the ongoing influence of the Holy Ghost in the life of the born again believer.