Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There is no such thing. Atheists, by definition, don’t believe in the existence of any god.
Verses Showing God Gives Man a Choice:
Note: None of these verses can be read plainly if Calvinism were true. You must approach them through an unnatural Calvinistic lens, yet even then the interpretation still fails to do justice to what these verses clearly state, especially when they use words such as 'any' and 'all.'" I mean, how do they explain Deuteronomy 30:19?
Joshua 24:15
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve…”
– The command to “choose” shows a real, meaningful choice.
Deuteronomy 30:19
“I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life…”
– God literally sets options before man and commands a choice.
Proverbs 1:29
“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord.”
– They could have chosen the fear of the Lord; they refused.
Isaiah 1:19–20
“If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land. But if ye refuse and rebel…”
– Willingness versus refusal implies genuine choice.
Isaiah 55:6–7
“Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near…”
– Seeking or refusing to seek is presented as a real option.
Ezekiel 18:30–32
“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions… why will ye die…? …turn yourselves and live ye.”
– God pleads with the sinner, showing the sinner can “turn” or not.
Matthew 11:28
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
– An open invitation requiring response.
John 5:40
“And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
– They will not, not cannot. Their choice prevents life.
John 7:17
“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine…”
– Understanding truth depends on a person choosing to do God’s will.
Revelation 22:17
“…whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
– “Whosoever will” is the strongest statement of voluntary reception.
2 Peter 3:9
“…not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
– God desires repentance for all, which implies the individual must choose to respond.
Acts 17:30
“…but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”
– A command assumes the hearer has the ability to respond.
Romans 10:9–10, 13
“That if thou shalt confess… and shalt believe… whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
– “If thou shalt… whosoever shall…” both require choosing to respond.
1 Timothy 2:4
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
– Again, salvation offered to all, implying a choice to come.
Zechariah 1:3
“Turn ye unto me… and I will turn unto you, saith the Lord of hosts.”
– God reciprocates when man chooses to turn.
.....
Note: None of these verses can be read plainly if Calvinism were true. You must approach them through an unnatural Calvinistic lens, yet even then the interpretation still fails to do justice to what these verses clearly state, especially when they use words such as 'any' and 'all.'" I mean, how do they explain Deuteronomy 30:19?
Joshua 24:15
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve…”
– The command to “choose” shows a real, meaningful choice.
Deuteronomy 30:19
“I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life…”
– God literally sets options before man and commands a choice.
Proverbs 1:29
“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord.”
– They could have chosen the fear of the Lord; they refused.
Isaiah 1:19–20
“If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land. But if ye refuse and rebel…”
– Willingness versus refusal implies genuine choice.
Isaiah 55:6–7
“Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near…”
– Seeking or refusing to seek is presented as a real option.
Ezekiel 18:30–32
“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions… why will ye die…? …turn yourselves and live ye.”
– God pleads with the sinner, showing the sinner can “turn” or not.
Matthew 11:28
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
– An open invitation requiring response.
John 5:40
“And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
– They will not, not cannot. Their choice prevents life.
John 7:17
“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine…”
– Understanding truth depends on a person choosing to do God’s will.
Revelation 22:17
“…whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
– “Whosoever will” is the strongest statement of voluntary reception.
2 Peter 3:9
“…not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
– God desires repentance for all, which implies the individual must choose to respond.
Acts 17:30
“…but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”
– A command assumes the hearer has the ability to respond.
Romans 10:9–10, 13
“That if thou shalt confess… and shalt believe… whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
– “If thou shalt… whosoever shall…” both require choosing to respond.
1 Timothy 2:4
“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
– Again, salvation offered to all, implying a choice to come.
Zechariah 1:3
“Turn ye unto me… and I will turn unto you, saith the Lord of hosts.”
– God reciprocates when man chooses to turn.
.....
It's like they have to continually keep fighting against Scripture to make their theology work.
.....
.....
I've dealt with 1000s of disagreements since I've been here.
This is just another one of them
Rejecting Gods will is a deliberate choice when it's comes to atheism
And as much as an atheist says I don't believe there is a God,
That because they have rejected him.
Then they believe in superstitions like luck or fate, like believing touching wood brings good luck or like How to be there own God and choose there own fate.
Each to there own I guess
And as much as an atheist says I don't believe there is a God,
That because they have rejected him.
Then they believe in superstitions like luck or fate, like believing touching wood brings good luck or like How to be there own God
and choose there own fate.Each to there own I guess
I believe he blessed me the moment I was born
Then he gifted me with a calling
That one day my words will wake you up,
I believe also he gave me a shot so hard it could break any net, especially when paying soccer
I prayed and prayed for a shot from heaven and one fine day I hit the ball that hard it lifted the goal posts out of the ground, and sent them summer salting thought the air, as an almighty gust of wind came from absolutely no where after i struck the ball lol.
You, along with all the other chosen people of God, have been blessed from eternity past.
Not true. The idol they worship is the god called SELF.
Well, I brought up the PP in response to you saying "But to be perfectly honest with you I know atheists which say
The bible is just a book of human morality, that just expresses normality and morals", but it was rather off topic,
so sorry, never mind about that. However, bringing up tulipism is spot on for this thread, so we can continue
discussing that if you want.
I have eight cats and at least as many pots, so it looks like I'm good to go.
So you're confirming its a medication issue. I hope you dont kick the cats across the room every time one uses free will and ignores you.
Animals and all do by nature exactly what they where designed to do.
Humans didnt.A couple of days ago, I wrote two posts (27,679 & 27,725) that demolished the idea that the Gr. term "kosmos" (most often rendered as "world") is always used in the distributive since. The facts of the bible, however, clearly refute this assumption that so many professing Christians read into passages, such as Jn 3:16. No FWer has even acknowledged the above two posts, let along refute their arguments. Long live FW Crickets! So...here's another passage that is huge fly in the FW understanding of how "world" is used.
Rom 11:11-15
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their [Israel's] transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their [Israel's] transgression means riches for the world, and their [Israel's] loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their [Israel's] rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
NIV
The above passage clearly and irrefutably refutes the distributive sense understanding of the the term "world". I have color coded portions of the text to accentuate the contrasts that Paul made in this passage between national Israel and the Gentile world. Logically speaking, Israel cannot be part of the world as this would have Paul contradicting himself multiple times.
1. Gentiles = the world
2. Israel's transgression = riches for the [Gentile] world
3. Israel's loss = riches for the Gentile world
4. Israel's rejection = reconciliation of the [Gentile] world
Since you FWers are such pathetic apologists for FWT, you need to beg, borrow or steal the services of genuine bible scholars. Maybe they can provide you with some real solutions to these three posts.
Rom 11:11-15
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their [Israel's] transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their [Israel's] transgression means riches for the world, and their [Israel's] loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their [Israel's] rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
NIV
The above passage clearly and irrefutably refutes the distributive sense understanding of the the term "world". I have color coded portions of the text to accentuate the contrasts that Paul made in this passage between national Israel and the Gentile world. Logically speaking, Israel cannot be part of the world as this would have Paul contradicting himself multiple times.
1. Gentiles = the world
2. Israel's transgression = riches for the [Gentile] world
3. Israel's loss = riches for the Gentile world
4. Israel's rejection = reconciliation of the [Gentile] world
Since you FWers are such pathetic apologists for FWT, you need to beg, borrow or steal the services of genuine bible scholars. Maybe they can provide you with some real solutions to these three posts.
So again, you refuse to learn.I've dealt with 1000s of disagreements since I've been here.
This is just another one of them
And they hate that "God" which does not exist......They have not thought through much of their "theory."
I am beginning to think that Jordon is not as "disabled" as he tells us. Our "sympathy" should be about running out?
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
In the calvie world.......None believe in anything about God. If they did, they are self exalting humanoids.
Only those who have no personal faith and are regenerated by his faith are safe.
A calvie cannot have personal faith. Their theology forbids it.