Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

I believe Romans 3 is presenting a universal description of mankind in its natural, unregenerate state. When Paul says, “there is none righteous, no, not one” and “there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God,” he is not describing only a certain kind of person. He is summarizing the spiritual condition of the entire human race before the grace of God intervenes. Paul supports this by quoting Psalm 53. Some point to Psalm 53:1 and argue that the psalm refers only to “the fool” who says in his heart, “There is no God,” but the psalm itself immediately broadens its scope. Verse 2 says that God looks down from heaven upon “the children of men” to see if any truly understand or seek Him, and verse 3 declares, “Every one of them is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” That language is universal and cannot be restricted to atheists.

Paul’s conclusion in Romans 3 makes this even clearer. After quoting these passages, he states that his purpose is “that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God” (Romans 3:19). If the statements in Romans 3 applied only to atheists or only to certain individuals, his conclusion about the guilt of “all the world” would make no sense. This shows that Romans 3:10–11 applies to everyone, but specifically to their condition before salvation. For the believer, these verses describe the former life, when he was spiritually blind, enslaved to sin, and walking according to the course of this world. And naturally, the same description applies to all unbelievers who remain in that fallen condition and ultimately die rejecting their Messiah. Romans 3 is not identifying a narrow subgroup of humanity. It is identifying the natural spiritual condition of every person apart from Christ.

However, there are many Calvinists who will say that Romans 3:10-11 still applies to the life of the believer even after they are saved and born again (Which is not true). Meaning, there are Calvinists (not all of them) who will say that they sin 24/7. While believers can struggle with sin and stumble, that is not how they are characterized in Scripture. They are called "saints" for a reason. Scripture tells us to be ye holy as He is. Yet, many Christians who believe those verses on living righteously are mocked today by other Christians. They boast in how they are sinners saved by grace. Meaning, they think they can willfully continue to do evil and be in God's good graces all because they have a belief alone on Jesus. This is not what the Bible teaches even remotely.

The Calvies never have figured this one out. They did conjure up all manner of nonsense about it though.
And just think......all that they had to do is keep reading the rest of the chapter....

[Rom 3:19 KJV]
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[Rom 3:20 KJV]
***Therefore*** by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

[Rom 3:21 KJV]
***But now*** the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[Rom 3:22 KJV]
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Rom 3:23 KJV]
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[Jordon]

The moral of the story is by offending people you can win an argument

 

[Jordon]

The Calvies never have figured this one out. They did conjure up all manner of nonsense about it though.
And just think......all that they had to do is keep reading the rest of the chapter....

[Rom 3:19 KJV]
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[Rom 3:20 KJV]
***Therefore*** by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

[Rom 3:21 KJV]
***But now*** the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[Rom 3:22 KJV]
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Rom 3:23 KJV]
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

It's actually beyond me why you don't see all this as the lords will working in people

For the lord said all deeds will be in the light.

Be it by his law or be it by is grace.

But then I guess we only seeing that being applied to the Calvies

those lucky Calvies have figured it out.

Long live the calvies, hoorah

 

[cv5]

It's actually beyond me why you don't see all this as the lords will working in people

For the lord said all deeds will be in the light.

Be it by his law or be it by is grace.

But then I guess we only seeing that being applied to the Calvies

those lucky Calvies have figured it out.

Long live the calvies, hoorah

Well, to convince me of your supposed Calvinistic competency, I would like you to prove this lofty opinion of yourself and your crew by having you (and them) correctly exegeting the fact that the account of Samson (Judges 13-15) is Romans 11 personified.

Go......

 

[Jordon]

Well, to convince me of your supposed Calvinistic competency, I would like you to prove this lofty opinion of yourself and your crew by having you (and them) correctly exegeting the fact that the account of Samson (Judges 13-15) is Romans 11 personified.

Go......

address me as Jordon thanks

Now to answer your question the whole family has been blessed with an active will spoken to them, that entered in them

And it was only by the lords will in them could they do.

Judges

Samson went down to Timnah together with his father and mother. As they approached the vineyards of Timnah, suddenly a young lion came roaring toward him. 6 The Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon him so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat

 

[Jordon]

The message

Believers who trust in God can have courage and be as bold as lion, because God is with them.

Proverbs 28:1

 

[Jackson129]

That's easy to do. You're a blowhard, windbag anyway. You could never answer the question about how God would play Favoritism card to a world filled with sinners.

Anyhoo....have a great night. And may you have sweet dreams of yourself stroking poor Pharaoh's beard. Maybe in your dream Pharaoh will introduce you to Judas -- or Adam.

Are you on medication? You need a cat and some pot.

 

[GWH]

The inherent value propensity principle

As a basis for intrinsic value: Some ethical perspectives could link a being's inherent value to its internal "propensities." For example, a being's inherent value might be tied to its capacity to feel pleasure or pain, a "propensity" to value its own existence, or a "propensity" toward self-awareness.

The linear value

The linear propensity principle has the following implications:
Dimensionality reduction: When dealing with many potential confounding variables, adjusting for each one individually in a regression model is complicated. A linear propensity model estimates a single propensity score for each subject, effectively reducing a complex, multi-dimensional problem into a much simpler one.
Controlling for confounding: After estimating the propensity scores, researchers can use them to create comparable treatment and control groups.

I see the PP as having logical value for showing the fallacy of atheist illogic,
which might be termed its inherent/intrinsic as well as linear value of not using circular reasoning.
Not sure what you mean by asking about a "signal".

 

[Jordon]

I see the PP as having logical value for showing the fallacy of atheist illogic,
which might be termed its inherent/intrinsic as well as linear value of not using circular reasoning.
Not sure what you mean by asking about a "signal".

Linearity in signal processing
In signal processing, a linear signal is one that passes through a linear system. A system is linear if it obeys the principle of superposition,

 

[Jordon]

The message

Believers who trust in God can have courage and be as bold as lion, because God is with them.

Proverbs 28:1

The message God will make you as bold as bold as a lion

 

[GWH]

Linearity in signal processing
In signal processing, a linear signal is one that passes through a linear system. A system is linear if it obeys the principle of superposition,

Okay, that seems to be getting off topic, although the PP signals that atheism (and tulipism) is illogical.

 

[Kroogz]

Has anyone ever noticed that we're getting absolutely nowhere with each other in this Thread?

Douglas

Which isn't the point.

Unbelievers read these threads.

Us "freewillers" are here to tell them the Good news of His Gospel.

The calvies are here to tell them they are a steaming pile of skubala that God may or may not grant regeneration.

 

[cv5]

Are you on medication? You need a cat and some pot.

I am thinking 100 proof cognitive dissonance.

 

[Jordon]

Okay, that seems to be getting off topic, although the PP signals that atheism (and tulipism) is illogical.

well no because you where the one that mentioned a linear system in the first place.

I'm only researching what you wrote.

So an atheist belief in God is based on superstitions.

And as forgetting of topic you brought it up, lastly bringing up tulipism in every post you make is now sidetracking the topic you brought up

 

[Magenta]

Has anyone ever noticed that we're getting absolutely nowhere with each other in this Thread?

Douglas

It is impossible to get anywhere with people who refuse to admit when they are wrong,
and who continually misrepresent themselves, others, and worst of all, Scripture.
They not only contradict and deny what God has explicitly articulated, but rewrite
verses they don't like so as to make them fit their preconceived suppositions.

 

[BillyBob]

However, there are many Calvinists who will say that Romans 3:10-11 still applies to the life of the believer even after they are saved and born again (Which is not true). Meaning, there are Calvinists (not all of them) who will say that they sin 24/7. While believers can struggle with sin and stumble, that is not how they are characterized in Scripture. They are called "saints" for a reason. Scripture tells us to be ye holy as He is. Yet, many Christians who believe those verses on living righteously are mocked today by other Christians. They boast in how they are sinners saved by grace. Meaning, they think they can willfully continue to do evil and be in God's good graces all because they have a belief alone on Jesus. This is not what the Bible teaches even remotely.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous comments that you have ever made. Your view concerning Calvinist/Reformed probably came from looking into your crystal ball or having your fortune told by someone practicing witch craft.
The Reformed Christian does continue to sin, and they mourn the fact that they have not yet been perfected. But, they also know that they are forgiven in Christ.
This is in contrast to someone like you who must think that they now live a sinless life, even though Scripture tells us “ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”.
Yes, we are Saints - set apart as a people of God.

 

[Genez]

Your highly intimidating to me.

And as seen in another thread here Dallasman when calling people calvinists he is calling them evil and over powering people with his abuse, and you and your crew do the same thing everyday.

Hour after hour.

I see you do not like when we toss back what has been thrown upon us?
Then, maybe they should stop if you don't like it yourself.

You forget?
We were the evil 'free-willers."
The Pelagians!
We were being presented as being dim wits.

This is not a mere game of wits you have entered into.
And, you do not know enough yet to know what it is you are dealing with.
You are only concerned about what you see within the realm of human interactions.
You are failing to know the spiritual underling reality that eludes you.

This is not some Christian social club as you seem to be seeking after.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, ​

against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against ​

spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12​

And, you want everyone to be nice?
To compromise truth to become friends?
It is not always pretty as you wish it to be.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons ​

we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power ​

to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself ​

up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient ​

to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5​

There you have it.

grace and peace ...............

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

The Calvies never have figured this one out. They did conjure up all manner of nonsense about it though.
And just think......all that they had to do is keep reading the rest of the chapter....

[Rom 3:19 KJV]
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[Rom 3:20 KJV]
***Therefore*** by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

[Rom 3:21 KJV]
***But now*** the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[Rom 3:22 KJV]
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Rom 3:23 KJV]
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[Rom 3:24 KJV]
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:1 opens with the question, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?” which immediately recalls the controversy confronted in Acts chapter 15. In Acts 15:1 certain men taught, “Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved,” creating the false doctrine of circumcision salvationism. Acts 15:5 shows the same error when some Pharisees insisted “that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles ultimately condemned this teaching in Acts 15:24 KJV, explaining that these men had “troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law,” and they added that they gave “no such commandment.” (Note: On a side note, the full truth in Acts 15:24 KJV is altered in Modern Bibles).

Anyway, Paul’s question in Romans 3:1 exposes this same false assumption that circumcision or any Mosaic requirement could provide initial salvation. The Jews had relied on the law, including circumcision, as if these works alone, apart from God’s grace, could give them righteousness before God. Paul makes it clear throughout Romans that the law was never designed to initially save. Its purpose was to reveal sin, expose guilt, and drive the sinner to Christ, not to serve as a means of obtaining salvation when one first comes to God.

It is not that obedience to God’s commands is wrong. Obedience is always right and expected, but the issue is that obedience to God’s laws or doing any work has never provided initial salvation. Under the New Covenant believers are no longer under the Mosaic law, such as the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, and other ceremonial requirements, although many of its moral principles carry over into the teachings of Christ. These moral laws include the highest command, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength (Mark 12:30). The moral laws would also include loving your neighbor (Mark 12:31), for Romans 13:8-10 explains that loving your neighbor fulfills the moral commandments such as “thou shalt not kill,” “thou shalt not steal,” and “thou shalt not covet.” These moral truths remain because they reflect God’s unchanging character, but the Mosaic covenant itself no longer binds the believer.

True obedience flows only after one is saved by God’s grace through faith. A sinner is first saved by grace without works, and only then does the Spirit of God produce genuine obedience as the fruit of that salvation.

Paul was fighting against circumcision salvationism as mentioned in Acts 15. This is why he spoke the way he did about the need to first be saved by God’s grace apart from works. His entire argument in Romans and Galatians was aimed at destroying the idea that rituals, ceremonies, or obedience to the Mosaic law could provide initial salvation. However, your average Calvinist is far from understanding this. Many of them approach salvation through the lens of determinism, and some even believe they can be saved by a belief alone while continuing in sinful behavior. Paul’s teaching directly contradicts this, for he makes it clear that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God and that true faith must lead to sanctification and obedience.

While some Calvinists are indeed for holy living after being saved by God's grace through faith, there are many who do not agree with that idea and hold to a view of salvation that allows a person to claim security in Christ while continuing in sinful behavior. Scripture does not support the notion that someone can persist in evil and have eternal life. God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).




....

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous comments that you have ever made. Your view concerning Calvinist/Reformed probably came from looking into your crystal ball or having your fortune told by someone practicing witch craft.
The Reformed Christian does continue to sin, and they mourn the fact that they have not yet been perfected. But, they also know that they are forgiven in Christ.
This is in contrast to someone like you who must think that they now live a sinless life, even though Scripture tells us “ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”.
Yes, we are Saints - set apart as a people of God.

If you believe the Bible, I encourage you to read these verses and take them to heart:

2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV, Galatians 5:24 KJV, and 1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV.



.....

 

[Jordon]

I see you do not like when we toss back what has been thrown upon us?
Then, maybe they should stop if you don't like it yourself.

You forget?
We were the evil 'free-willers."
The Pelagians!
We were being presented as being dim wits.

This is not a mere game of wits you have entered into.
And, you do not know enough yet to know what it is you are dealing with.
You are only concerned about what you see within the realm of human interactions.
You are failing to know the spiritual underling reality that eludes you.

This is not some Christian social club as you seem to be seeking after.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, ​

against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against ​

spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12​

And, you want everyone to be nice?
To compromise truth to become friends?
It is not always pretty as you wish it to be.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons ​

we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power ​

to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself ​

up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient ​

to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5​

There you have it.

grace and peace ...............

Wrestling not against flesh and blood means your own kind.

Where as you take that to mean free will of the flesh.

I really don't know how you can ever justify what you've accomplished in this thread as much as you have.

Let's be honest if this discussion was not about free will, you would just find another thread to sound of about.

The fact your using free will of the flesh to justify throwing insults all the time.

Just shows how much of a child you are.