ok then you know that 1cor 13:8-10 don't say the gifts have stopped.
Are all the spiritual gifts still active today?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
2Pet 3:3
"knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,"
you say many things and insults but lack the ability to say to ones face like most cowards. I am willing to debate you in person and even on line live real time. its easy to call names when one is not there to hear said to their face. As I told you before you don't know me or what I have seen my resume is not for you or I need your approval. I don't have the spirit of fear so no this war did not make me wet myself no demon or you will either. I don't follow B. Hinn you do.
Since I see that some proclaim that the power gifts of the Spirit were only performed by the Jesus and the Apostles, that seems to imply that the office of the Apostle no longer exists. Eph 4: 7-13 " But every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore He saith, when He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men. ( Now He the ascended, what is it but that He also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He gave some Apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: TILL we come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" Questions: Has the body of Christ been perfected yet? Is ministry work finished yet? Is the body of Christ unified in faith yet? Is the body of Christ, even those new in Christ, edified yet? Has the body of Christ come to full knowledge of the Son of God? Is the body of Christ now a " perfect man "? Has the body of Christ reached " the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ "? I hope you noticed the word " TILL " which is in modern day translated " UNTIL ". So " until " those conditions are met the five fold gifts to the church, given by Jesus, are still relevant and in operation. Jesus said in Mark 16: 17-18 " And these signs SHALL follow them that believe; In My name SHALL they cast out devils: they SHALL speak with new tongues; They SHALL take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it SHALL NOT hurt them; they SHALL lay hands of the sick, and they SHALL recover." If you have not been endued with power from on high and don't believe those signs are following you, they won't. John 17: 23 " I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in One; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent ME, and hast LOVED THEM, ( just ) AS THOU HAST LOVED ME." Since God loves us as much as He loves Jesus, would He send us into the world, with millions upon millions more unsaved people, without equipping us as He did Jesus, or even the original Apostles? Wouldn't that make Him a respecter of persons? Say you have a young family, with school aged children, and an unexpected snow storm overnight causes schools to close. The kids are overjoyed but you have to go to work and can't find anyone to watch the kids. You have to call off your job. The kids are having a ball, running and making noise, so you get the brilliant idea to let them play in the snow for awhile ( they might get tired AND sleepy 
) You call your little girl and start putting on her sweater, jacket, coat, scarf, ear muffs and boots over two pairs of socks ( she has to turn her whole body to look around . Then you call your son and start dressing him, you put on him a baseball cap, a catchers mitt, some Nikes, a wind breaker and tell them both to go out and play. You wouldn't do that would you. Neither would your heavenly Father, because He loves you equally as He does His Begotten AND His original Apostles and equips us as He did them.
) You call your little girl and start putting on her sweater, jacket, coat, scarf, ear muffs and boots over two pairs of socks ( she has to turn her whole body to look around . Then you call your son and start dressing him, you put on him a baseball cap, a catchers mitt, some Nikes, a wind breaker and tell them both to go out and play. You wouldn't do that would you. Neither would your heavenly Father, because He loves you equally as He does His Begotten AND His original Apostles and equips us as He did them.
How could it be anything else? God doesn't change.
It's hard to show evidence unless you are there when it happens. I've heard a couple testimonies of tongues happening ina church, and interpretation given also right then and there. So I wouldn't too quick to dismiss tongues as untrue if I were you.
Tongues bugged me for a long time and I wanted to speak in tongues. People told me they can teach me how (Lol). Scripture says that when we speak in tongues, it is the Holy Spirit praying to God for us because we dont know how to pray for what we should.
So if it is the Holy Spirit praying for us, how could anyone ever teach me how? I can't put words into the Holy Spirit's mouth! But like I said it bugged me because scripture tells us all we need to know. I read about it, talked to people about it and prayed about it. Then one day I back burnered it and was merely about to pray about something else, not tongues, I open my mouth to speak and it comes out in tongues! I wasn't trying to, it just happened because the Holy Spirit decided to! I don't know what He said, but I knew enough to stand down! and just listen until He was done. After He was done, I prayed my own feeble prayer in English Lol.
So suddenly I knew that Tongues were very real because it just happened for me. I did not get any evidence from the Holy Spirit that He spoke in tongues for me, sorry. What I did get is experience. The good thing about experience is that, the man with experience is never at the mercy of the man with doctrine.
Brother, please understand that you can't demand proof from God. He doesn't do magic shows and nobody ever gets irrefutable proof of anything. Read your Bible Brother, the Lord wants us to have faith. The more you seek Him through His Word, the more He will reveal Himself to You. You have to choose to believe what He says. Scripture says the Carnal intellect of man can not receive spiritual things for they are spiritually discerned.
So while the man who was talking to you, the one who did not offer proof to you (!!) never will. It's not realized intellectually. It is realized spiritually.
Not sure how to do that? Read your Bible! All that stuff is in there.
First off, those who demand a sign are just like what Jesus said a Perverted generation seeks a sign none will be given to them. But the sign of Jonah. Matthew 16:4
Many of them say all the time "perform a sign for us do a miracle," then we will believe many." "Give us proof!" Many said this to Jesus after seeing him do healing and miracles too.
It's not about proof. They won't care they will dismiss it with human reasoning and what they believe is scientific evidence.
They are carnal minded. They could be careless of our testimony. There are enough buffoons out there to give them their justification to attack the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
With so many fake actions by those who fleece the flock $$$$$$$$ and are deceptive.
By the great number of fakes there must not be any more moves of God like we see in the bible. This is the human reasoning factor.
Jesu said this sign will follow them that Believe
. I believe and I have seen God do many great things. I have seen hundreds saved my God through the preach of His word that HE allows me to do. As a street Pastor evangelist in very tried aeras like Oakland CA and Stockton, and SF casting out devil is very much a action Jesus did and it is very much what I have seen done and have done in these aera.
Anytime you want to come to Oakland and deal with Drug induced rage that women are able to beat of four men and one man can flip over a car and jump 15 to 20 feet in the air while fully naked you can tell me Lemar where he hid his wires. I have seen demon possessed and I have had concerns for my wellbeing while fighting them but in the end, they were casted out. But those like Lemar and other will provide a more rational explanation they can explain.
Nobody hardly knows anything on this earth. We all went to school and they taught us what was what (lol) but what if they was lying. Oh yeah they were lying. but so and so expert figured this out da da da. Scientist and experts that we must take their word for it. That situation is ripe for lies and abuse. So what did we miss? In scripture it's called the Lie. Not, a lie but the lie.
Even though they havent did the false flag Alien invasion from outer space yet that is the Lie. That they are extraterrestrial beings from outer space. That's not what they are, they are Demonic evil spirits all of them and you can't trust them BUT! Remember! Jesus gave us all authority over evil spirits invoke Jesus name at them and you are in charge, in Christ.
But inter-dimensional spirit beings are way different than aliens and I think that's they lie. Now that may sound fairly insane of itself lol. So instead of taking any "expert's" word on anything, you can study the manuscript we call the Bible and see for yourself! Don't take my word for it!
Genesis 6:1-4 sounds like a sci-fi movie and from what I can tell they only people who believe about how the Nephilim came about are the ones who teach about it. You know what the Bible says is true. And that's what it says happened. Mad me mad when I first realized it was true. If we go to the book of truth (Holy Bible) and it doesn't stutter.
I havent ever seen anything supernatural. But I can hear His still small voice and one time He spoke audibly to me and all sorts of miracles and the testimony's of them but no proof!
These guys got to realize that, of a truth, first we choose to believe, then God will reveal Himself to you in some way.
So like the little girl in the movie Miracle on 34th St. says! Seeing isn't Believing...Believing is Seeing...!!
So instead of them asking for proof they can see they should ask how to perceive proofs that they can't see.
I am not asserting anything. Your modern day liberal theology where you can't prove by the word of God that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today.
1Corthians chapter 12 through 14 are still relevant and you not witnessing to the works of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean its not for today. Call it modern tongues and ask for evidence of what The Holy Spirit does.
You have presented nothing more than your opinion based on your own lack of experience.
1corthians chapter 12 through 14 teaches the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the book of Acts established the experience repeatedly. You keep asking for proof and you suggest one is mocking then Holy Spirit when it is you. Show me in the Bible where its not for today. IF you can't then it is you who mocks and scoffs. Your bad experiences are not proof the legitimate and authenticate do not happen.
I have seen and experienced this wonder gift an many others. As everything with GOD faith is involved.
You name call and and act immature but lack Biblical refuting. It make you feel good about yourself so please continue.
Yet when one, anyone begins to grow up in maturity, one leaves certain things behind them Read 1 Cor 13 1-3, 4-7, 8-12 then verse 13 what goes on forever, Love, God's love everything else passes away, verses 8-12 thank you. This is for each person personally between God and them personally to now really love in God's forever love and mercy of Son done first by Son for us each. That is what I see to share in care for us all
I disagree with some of what you say due to the chapter in 1cr 13 the text doesn't say they have stopped in past tense. The chapter also admonishes those who speak in tongues and have not love or the motivation of the gift should be operated in love for GOD and man. The context of chapter 13 starts in 12 and ends in 14. You one cannot say tongues has ended and not for today when Chapter 14 is how to use this gift.
God will one day sort it all out. so I see to get along and love each other as are loved first by God Father through the done work of Son.
If one does not have the heart given them by Father. yes, then it doesn't mean a thing, but to get people riled up and sin happens out of that, and people stay carnal 1 Cor 3
Time to rest and thank you for reading the post response of mine. not arguing or fighting over anything, just sharing. God won by Son the two as One (Won for us to be new in love to all, thank you
Common phrases used to support all spiritual gifts on operation now:
'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever'
Context of the verse?
Not about spiritual gifts but the surety of His promises .
'Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, though I have faith to move mountains..etc'
Context of the verses?
Not about Paul actually having the ability to speak in tongues of angels, or faith to move mountains, but is exaggeration to make a point. Why? Because the examples are hyperbole. Nobody, ever.. has had faith to actually move a mountain. Jesus could have.. but He is God..not mortal man.
'Pursue prophecy, desire spiritual gifts...'
This verse is to the Corinthians then and there ..it could apply to now if there is nothing from that point in time that affect tongues, prophecy and gift of knowledge.
But there is.. you have the death of the apostles, establishment of the early churches, destruction of the Jewish temple, and completion of the canon.
Not to mention the fact someone the gifts are carry overs from the Old Testament.
'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever'
Context of the verse?
Not about spiritual gifts but the surety of His promises .
'Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, though I have faith to move mountains..etc'
Context of the verses?
Not about Paul actually having the ability to speak in tongues of angels, or faith to move mountains, but is exaggeration to make a point. Why? Because the examples are hyperbole. Nobody, ever.. has had faith to actually move a mountain. Jesus could have.. but He is God..not mortal man.
'Pursue prophecy, desire spiritual gifts...'
This verse is to the Corinthians then and there ..it could apply to now if there is nothing from that point in time that affect tongues, prophecy and gift of knowledge.
But there is.. you have the death of the apostles, establishment of the early churches, destruction of the Jewish temple, and completion of the canon.
Not to mention the fact someone the gifts are carry overs from the Old Testament.
Authorized (King James) Version
1 Cor 13:8-13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Cor 13:8-13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Corinthians 12:4-7
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries,
and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things
in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control.
Is there any difference between Gifts, Fruit, and Ministries, because they are all manifestations
of the Holy Spirit.
These three; Gifts, Ministries, and Fruit, are provided for both the individual and the church.
Here is an important question for you to answer.
Would you forbid a prophecy for the church?
I don't think you could say that we see through a glass darkly when we have the perfect N.T.
"But then face to face", means when you meet the Lord face to face.
Will you forbid someone from uttering a prophecy in your church?
I am asking you personally if you would forbid prophecy.
Acts 2:17
‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams.
When God pours His Spirit out on all mankind will you forbid prophecy?
Will you forbid some expressing divine knowledge?
Will you forbid divine wisdom.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available for all mankind not just the church!
Thanks. I forbid no one, since all have are given free choice to choose from God each to Love in Truth or not, as each choose.
1 Cor 14 I think Paul teaches very well there, to me at least. Now did I fathom any of it at first. Nope!
Did others tell me how to understand it? Yes. And now I see new from God Father. who has never left me or forsaken me in any sin I have done since then. I, one day saw 1 Cor 3, Paul wanting to feed them Meat, yet he could not do that yet and the reason why?
Then one day, God got me to see and read Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6. I saw my need and asked for meat. Been being taught ever since, the new in love, mercy and truth to all. Not to tell anyone I know better or be anyone better than anyone else. Just saw grow up in God's love and mercy given to us all in Son for all. The reason he went to that cross willingly and died in flesh and blood willingly for us all. Which saves no one. Only reconciles everyone 2 Cor 5:17-20. I then saw, God by Son did what was needed for everyone to be made perfect from God, not self ever, Col 1:21-22. So, we by belief to God Father in risen son for us are given new life in God's Spirit and Truth and see new in love to all, regardless whether another agrees with us or not.
So I see this I am dead, (Acts 17:28) willingly dead in my first birth. And see God alive, who made me alive in risen Son for me to just love all, in the same mercy and truth for all, that Son did once for us all first
We love, because God loved us first, period, thanks. All can believe as they each choose to. Yet, God has never called anyone to live like a refugee. And so many of us do, by being put under Law, re-read Romans 6.7..8 please
I strongly disagree with what you wrote HomewardBound.
Here is what the perfect letter written to Corinth informs us concerning God's gifts.
1 Corinthians 12
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
1 Corinthians 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write
to you are the Lord’s commandment.
You need to be aware that you by default have failed to obey the Lord's commandment.
You are not making a choice here you are actually being disobedient to the apostle's instruction.
It's not about me it's about the Lord's commandment.
If you read the writings of the early (orthodox) Christian leaders and teachers you will see that they believed the that the Spiritual Gifts (charismata) had not ceased but had continued. Some even claimed to have witnessed their supernatural operation. Some early evidence of the Early Churches belief in the ongoing operation of the gifts can be found in one of the earliest Christian writings, the so-called Didache (which is short for "“The Teachings of the Lord (from or through) the Twelve Apostles (to or for) the Nations)” This belongs to a class of early Christian writing that concerned instructions on basic Church order as well as come liturgical text. Since the Didache speaks about itinerant bands of prophets we know that they believed the gift of prophets had not ceased. At the same time they gave instructions to the Church about how to discern and judge true Apostles and prophets showing that they believed those ministries had not ceased. The Didache was written in Koine Greek not later Byzantine Greek. Some place its origin in the First Century while and others early in the Second Century.
We also have the writings of the early author and apologist, Justin Martyr who was known for his accurate teaching as well as by his devotion to the Lord wrote. In his book Dialogue with Trypho, Justin makes it clear that he believed the gifts had continued. He wrote that the prophetical gifts of the Jews had been transferred to the Christians. He starts chapter 82 of his apologetic book declaring, “For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time.”
JUSTIN MARTYR (AD 100-165)
One Second Century witness was Irenaeus of Lyons. In his five volume magnum opus Against Heresies Irenaeus states that the gifts were operating in his time. He goes so far as to use the charismata as an indication of discipleship of the person to the true Jesus (in contrast to the Gnostic one). He wrote “Those who are in truth Jesus’ disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform miracles, so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him.
IRENAEUS of Lyons (AD 130-202)
This is only the very beginning of what early Christians believed about the continuation of the gifts.
We also have the writings of the early author and apologist, Justin Martyr who was known for his accurate teaching as well as by his devotion to the Lord wrote. In his book Dialogue with Trypho, Justin makes it clear that he believed the gifts had continued. He wrote that the prophetical gifts of the Jews had been transferred to the Christians. He starts chapter 82 of his apologetic book declaring, “For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time.”
JUSTIN MARTYR (AD 100-165)
One Second Century witness was Irenaeus of Lyons. In his five volume magnum opus Against Heresies Irenaeus states that the gifts were operating in his time. He goes so far as to use the charismata as an indication of discipleship of the person to the true Jesus (in contrast to the Gnostic one). He wrote “Those who are in truth Jesus’ disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform miracles, so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him.
IRENAEUS of Lyons (AD 130-202)
This is only the very beginning of what early Christians believed about the continuation of the gifts.