The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[mailmandan]

Still too lengthy should keep it plain and simple for everyone to understand

I'm doing the best that I can. Would you like to discuss this one thing at a time?

 

[Me_Clay]

I'm doing the best that I can. Would you like to discuss this one thing at a time?

I do, what's the topic?

 

[mailmandan]

I do, what's the topic?

The title of the thread is - "The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?" Where folks get carried away with the Ten Commandments is when they "add" them to the gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as a requirement for salvation. Nobody (except Jesus Christ) has perfectly obeyed the Ten Commandments.

 

[PennEd]

Paul called the 10 Commandments glorious, but a ministry of death and condemnation.

Why? Because he understood NO ONE could keep those Laws. That is the ENTIRE reason Christ had to come and die for us.

Are WE better than the Jews that couldn't keep those Laws for thousands of years? Sounds pretty arrogant to me.


2 Corinthians 3:7-10

New King James Version

Glory of the New Covenant
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

 

[GWH]

I agree but these verses are hard to understand for many and I want the text to be clear let me explain; Many people read Hebrews 7:18 and think it speaks against the Ten Commandments, but that is not what the verse means. Hebrews 7:18 says, “For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness.” The “former commandment” here is the command that established the Levitical priesthood with animal sacrifices, earthly priests, and temple rituals. That whole system was temporary and could never give eternal life. It could never cleanse the heart. It only pointed forward to the One who would come. People think it speaks of the Ten Commandments because the writing style of Hebrews compresses many ideas together and speaks about the law of Moses as a whole, but the context shows the focus is on the priesthood and the sacrifices. The weakness was not God’s moral law. The weakness was in the animal system that could not take away sin forever.

Jesus Himself explains this truth long before Hebrews was written. He said His blood is “the blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). If His blood brings full forgiveness, then the old sacrifices have no more place. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). If He is the only way, then the old priesthood cannot continue beside Him. Jesus also said, “In this place there is One greater than the temple” (Matthew 12:6). If He is greater than the temple, then everything in the temple, including its priests and rituals, is passing away. He told the Samaritan woman that the hour was coming when people would not worship on a mountain or in Jerusalem but in spirit and truth (John 4:21–24). This means the old system, tied to one place and one priesthood, would end when the true worshiper comes to God through Christ.

None of these teachings ever speak against the Ten Commandments. Jesus never called God’s commandments weak or useless. He said, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He warned that those who hear His words but do not do them build on sand and will fall (Matthew 7:24–27). John also says, “His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). These verses show that God’s will for how we live did not become weak, and it did not get annulled. Only the priesthood of Levi and its sacrifices ended, because Jesus became the High Priest forever, and His sacrifice does what no animal sacrifice could ever do.

Agreement is good and commanded by Jesus (also via Paul), and I agree with your point about the priesthood
but would explain it a little differently as follows:

There are two types of commandments: moral, which are eternal; and Levitical, which were temporary for the purpose of separating
the Jews from the Gentiles until the advent of Messiah.

The NT affirms six of the TCs as moral/universal, but not the Sabbath, which was Levitical.
The commands Jesus specifies as salvific are cited in Matthew 22:37-40 and John 13:34-35.

In your next post, I assume that when you say you cannot edit the OP you mean the red bottom lines,
which is unfortunate. However, perhaps above them you could add:

"The former regulation [Levitical law per Heb. 7:11] is set aside... and Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant."
(Hebrews 7:18a & 22b, cf. Matt. 22:37-40 & John 13:34-35).

 

[Aaron56]

Paul called the 10 Commandments glorious, but a ministry of death and condemnation.

Why? Because he understood NO ONE could keep those Laws. That is the ENTIRE reason Christ had to come and die for us.

Are WE better than the Jews that couldn't keep those Laws for thousands of years? Sounds pretty arrogant to me.


2 Corinthians 3:7-10

New King James Version

Glory of the New Covenant
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

We certainly agree on this!

 

[vassal]

We certainly agree on this!

Let me explained what Paul truly said witch you do not see;

in these verses 2 Cor 3:7-11, Paul speaks of two ministries:

1. what was given through Moses
2. what comes through the Spirit that Jesus gives

Paul says the ministry “written and engraved on stones” was glorious. These are the Ten Commandments. They were holy, and they came from God. Even Moses’ face shone because he had been in God’s presence. But Paul calls it a “ministration of death” because when people broke these commandments, they stood under judgment. The law showed what is right, but it could not give life by itself. Jesus shows the same truth when He says that knowing the commandments is not enough. We must do them from a clean heart. For example, He says anger leads to judgment just like murder (Matthew 5:21 to 22), and lust leads to judgment like adultery (Matthew 5:27 to 28). This means the law points to right behavior, but only Christ can purify the heart so we can live it.
Then Paul calls Jesus’ work “the ministry of the Spirit.” This agrees fully with Jesus’ words. Jesus says the Spirit will come to teach us, guide us, and live in us (John 14:17). He also says the Spirit gives life (John 6:63). When the Spirit writes God’s law inside us, we obey from love, not fear. Jesus said the same thing: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He teaches that obedience flows from love and from a changed heart, not from stone tablets alone.
Paul also says the old ministry had glory, but the new has greater glory. Jesus taught this in His own way. He said something greater than the temple is here (Matthew 12:6). He said the greatest commandment is to love God fully and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36 to 40), and that on these hang all the law and the prophets. The light of Jesus’ teachings is brighter than the light that shone on Moses’ face. This is why the glory of Christ is greater.
When Paul says the first was “done away,” he does not mean the commandments are abolished, because Jesus clearly said the opposite. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law (Matthew 5:17). Instead, He came to fulfill it by bringing it to its full meaning and writing it in our hearts. What is “done away” is not the moral law of God, but the veil of separation, the old way of trying to obey without the Spirit, and the old ministry that condemned without giving power to change.
Jesus Himself explains this: “If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed” (John 8:36). Free from sin, not free from obedience. So Paul’s words only make sense when joined to Christ’s teaching: the law remains holy, but now the Spirit gives life, strength, and a new heart so we can keep God’s will in a better way, with more glory, more truth, and more love.


Now, if we look at the same verses from Paul (2 Cor 3:7-11) but In relation to the covenants old and new Paul speaks about “the ministry written and engraved on stones.” These are the Ten Commandments. In the Old Covenant, God said these commandments were the covenant itself. When He gave the tablets to Moses, Scripture calls them “the tablets of the covenant” (Exodus 34:28). Israel received this covenant, but their hearts were stubborn and they often fell into sin. This is why Paul calls it a “ministration of death,” not because the commandments were bad, but because breaking them brought judgment.
Jesus also teaches that the problem was not the law, but the human heart. He says anger can break the commandment against murder (Matthew 5:21 to 22), and lust can break the commandment against adultery (Matthew 5:27 to 28). The law is holy, but without a changed heart it leads to condemnation.
Because of this, God promised a New Covenant long before Jesus came. This promise is in Jeremiah 31:31 to 33. God says He will make a new covenant, not like the one Israel broke. He says, “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts.” Notice that God does not remove the law. Instead, He moves it from stone to the inner life of the believer.
Jesus speaks of this same New Covenant when He says, “This is My blood of the new covenant” (Matthew 26:28). His sacrifice opens the way for God’s law to be written inside us. Jesus teaches that love is the center of this new life. “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). The commandments remain because they show God’s will, but now they are obeyed through love and the power of the Spirit.
This is why Paul says the “ministry of the Spirit” has more glory than the old. Jesus promised that the Spirit would come to teach us, guide us, and give life (John 14:26 and John 6:63). In the Old Covenant the commandments were outside the people on stone. In the New Covenant the same commandments are written inside the heart, with power to live them.
So when Paul says the first ministry “was to be done away,” he means the old way of serving God with a hard heart and constant failure. What remains is the greater glory: God’s law written in the heart, the veil removed, the Spirit living in us, and Christ forming a new life within.
The Ten Commandments are the covenant. The Old Covenant wrote them on stone. The New Covenant writes them in the heart, just as God promised in Jeremiah 31, and Jesus fulfilled through His own blood.

I know it is a lot to digest but if you follow the scripture and research this you will see, I just hope people make the effort.

to prove what I say that the commandments are still valid here are words from Paul that match what Christ said also

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

it is important to read Paul through the lens of Christ's words.

 

[Me_Clay]

Let me explained what Paul truly said witch you do not see;

in these verses 2 Cor 3:7-11, Paul speaks of two ministries:

1. what was given through Moses
2. what comes through the Spirit that Jesus gives

Paul says the ministry “written and engraved on stones” was glorious. These are the Ten Commandments. They were holy, and they came from God. Even Moses’ face shone because he had been in God’s presence. But Paul calls it a “ministration of death” because when people broke these commandments, they stood under judgment. The law showed what is right, but it could not give life by itself. Jesus shows the same truth when He says that knowing the commandments is not enough. We must do them from a clean heart. For example, He says anger leads to judgment just like murder (Matthew 5:21 to 22), and lust leads to judgment like adultery (Matthew 5:27 to 28). This means the law points to right behavior, but only Christ can purify the heart so we can live it.
Then Paul calls Jesus’ work “the ministry of the Spirit.” This agrees fully with Jesus’ words. Jesus says the Spirit will come to teach us, guide us, and live in us (John 14:17). He also says the Spirit gives life (John 6:63). When the Spirit writes God’s law inside us, we obey from love, not fear. Jesus said the same thing: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He teaches that obedience flows from love and from a changed heart, not from stone tablets alone.
Paul also says the old ministry had glory, but the new has greater glory. Jesus taught this in His own way. He said something greater than the temple is here (Matthew 12:6). He said the greatest commandment is to love God fully and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36 to 40), and that on these hang all the law and the prophets. The light of Jesus’ teachings is brighter than the light that shone on Moses’ face. This is why the glory of Christ is greater.
When Paul says the first was “done away,” he does not mean the commandments are abolished, because Jesus clearly said the opposite. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law (Matthew 5:17). Instead, He came to fulfill it by bringing it to its full meaning and writing it in our hearts. What is “done away” is not the moral law of God, but the veil of separation, the old way of trying to obey without the Spirit, and the old ministry that condemned without giving power to change.
Jesus Himself explains this: “If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed” (John 8:36). Free from sin, not free from obedience. So Paul’s words only make sense when joined to Christ’s teaching: the law remains holy, but now the Spirit gives life, strength, and a new heart so we can keep God’s will in a better way, with more glory, more truth, and more love.


Now, if we look at the same verses from Paul (2 Cor 3:7-11) but In relation to the covenants old and new Paul speaks about “the ministry written and engraved on stones.” These are the Ten Commandments. In the Old Covenant, God said these commandments were the covenant itself. When He gave the tablets to Moses, Scripture calls them “the tablets of the covenant” (Exodus 34:28). Israel received this covenant, but their hearts were stubborn and they often fell into sin. This is why Paul calls it a “ministration of death,” not because the commandments were bad, but because breaking them brought judgment.
Jesus also teaches that the problem was not the law, but the human heart. He says anger can break the commandment against murder (Matthew 5:21 to 22), and lust can break the commandment against adultery (Matthew 5:27 to 28). The law is holy, but without a changed heart it leads to condemnation.
Because of this, God promised a New Covenant long before Jesus came. This promise is in Jeremiah 31:31 to 33. God says He will make a new covenant, not like the one Israel broke. He says, “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts.” Notice that God does not remove the law. Instead, He moves it from stone to the inner life of the believer.
Jesus speaks of this same New Covenant when He says, “This is My blood of the new covenant” (Matthew 26:28). His sacrifice opens the way for God’s law to be written inside us. Jesus teaches that love is the center of this new life. “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). The commandments remain because they show God’s will, but now they are obeyed through love and the power of the Spirit.
This is why Paul says the “ministry of the Spirit” has more glory than the old. Jesus promised that the Spirit would come to teach us, guide us, and give life (John 14:26 and John 6:63). In the Old Covenant the commandments were outside the people on stone. In the New Covenant the same commandments are written inside the heart, with power to live them.
So when Paul says the first ministry “was to be done away,” he means the old way of serving God with a hard heart and constant failure. What remains is the greater glory: God’s law written in the heart, the veil removed, the Spirit living in us, and Christ forming a new life within.
The Ten Commandments are the covenant. The Old Covenant wrote them on stone. The New Covenant writes them in the heart, just as God promised in Jeremiah 31, and Jesus fulfilled through His own blood.

I know it is a lot to digest but if you follow the scripture and research this you will see, I just hope people make the effort.

to prove what I say that the commandments are still valid here are words from Paul that match what Christ said also

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

it is important to read Paul through the lens of Christ's words.

This is unbiblical

 

[Me_Clay]

The title of the thread is - "The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?" Where folks get carried away with the Ten Commandments is when they "add" them to the gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as a requirement for salvation. Nobody (except Jesus Christ) has perfectly obeyed the Ten Commandments.

I agree and here's the answer from the bible:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

******************The End*******************

 

[vassal]

I agree and here's the answer from the bible:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

******************The End*******************

The verses you shared speak about how the law had a role: it showed us our sin and pointed us toward Christ. But Jesus Himself teaches that coming to Him in faith is only the beginning. He calls us to follow Him and to obey His words. He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He also said, “Whoever hears My sayings and does them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock” (Matthew 7:24). Faith is the foundation, but obedience is the life that grows from that faith.
Jesus never said the commandments were useless. He said He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). He showed that love for God and love for others are the heart of all God’s commands. When we put on Christ, as the passage says, our heart begins to change. We do not follow God’s commands to save ourselves, but because we belong to Christ and His Spirit writes God’s ways inside our heart.
So yes, in Christ we are one family, and we are saved by faith. But Jesus teaches that this faith is living and active. It leads us to walk in His words, not ignore them. The Ten Commandments show what God calls good, and Jesus brings these things to their full meaning in our lives.

if you want to understand this you need to read James in your bible, until you do you will probably not understand. Scripture is composed of many books and one must have proper knowledge of these books to see the full picture.

 

[vassal]

This is unbiblical

no it is not , Paul is difficult to understand and many twist the meaning of what Paul says by lack of knowledge.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Me_Clay]

no it is not , Paul is difficult to understand and many twist the meaning of what Paul says by lack of knowledge.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I would appreciate we go with context and not jumping from scriptures to scriptures. I will be waiting

 

[vassal]

I would appreciate we go with context and not jumping from scriptures to scriptures. I will be waiting

I need to understand better where you are in scrioture, what have you read so far, please do not be shy about it, i wont comment, we all need to start somewhere, as you read you will find that scripture comes together but it takes time. see here on this thread many .

you wrote"
"I would appreciate we go with context and not jumping from scriptures to scriptures."

I will be waiting" now what is it specifically that you need to know I am nor certain if what you need is is about 2 peter 3 or is it about the very long post I wrote, I admit is was full of scripture and can become confusing, please be specific and i will answer.

"
.

 

[Me_Clay]

I need to understand better where you are in scrioture, what have you read so far, please do not be shy about it, i wont comment, we all need to start somewhere, as you read you will find that scripture comes together but it takes time. see here on this thread many .

you wrote"
"I would appreciate we go with context and not jumping from scriptures to scriptures."

I will be waiting" now what is it specifically that you need to know I am nor certain if what you need is is about 2 peter 3 or is it about the very long post I wrote, I admit is was full of scripture and can become confusing, please be specific and i will answer.

"
.

What's the context? There's no belly of god here. Just the truth.

 

[vassal]

What's the context? There's no belly of god here. Just the truth.

sorry I do not understand what you want

 

[vassal]

What's the context? There's no belly of god here. Just the truth.

if I may ask is English your main language, I think we have problems to communicate but it can be fixed, let me know what language you are most comfortable with.

 

[Me_Clay]

if I may ask is English your main language, I think we have problems to communicate but it can be fixed, let me know what language you are most comfortable with.

Only one language which is the bible language

 

[vassal]

Only one language which is the bible language

You are not helping me to help you so far.... you did not answered any of my few and simple questions.

 

[Me_Clay]

You are not helping me to help you so far.... you did not answered any of my few and simple questions.

Pick a scriptures or topic first

 

[vassal]

Pick a scriptures or topic first

topic: what is the Covenant.

the covenant is described by GOD as the Ten commandments.

Here are the clear Old Testament verses where God Himself says that the Ten Commandments are His covenant. All verses are NKJV.

1. Deuteronomy 4:13
“So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.”
2. Deuteronomy 9:9
“When I went up into the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord made with you…”
3. Deuteronomy 9:11
“Then the Lord delivered to me two tablets of stone the tablets of the covenant.”
4. Deuteronomy 10:4
“And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments… Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark.”
5. Exodus 34:28
“He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”
Summary:
The Old Testament states directly, many times, that God’s covenant was the Ten Commandments, written by His own finger on stone and placed inside the ark of the Covenant.

Many do not know this but it is essential to know this.

questions?