Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Free will lives in the flesh as cited in scripture

Free willers believe the flesh can do what Scripture says it cannot.

But they try to hide their error behind a vermin infested beard of CDS.

It doesn't work. Their error is plain as day.

Romans 8 v 5-9Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[BillyBob]

Free willers believe the flesh can do what Scripture says it cannot.

But they try to hide their error behind a vermin infested beard of CDS.

It doesn't work. Their error is plain as day.

Romans 8 v 5-9Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

What a terrible, deplorable and appalling state man is in by nature, who once lived in perfect harmony and unity with God in a Garden of Paradise, but whom the Scriptures now describe "...is a worm" (Job 25:6).
** MDB **

 

[HeIsHere]

Wrong. Did you actually read and understand Romans 9 and associated verses from other books? True enduring belief comes from God, not man. Therefore, one must first become saved to receive the attributes of a true Christian, one of which, is true belief.
It can't be made any clearer than the following verses make it.

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

[Jhn 17:9 KJV]
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. ...

[Rom 9:8,11, 15-16, 18, 20-26 KJV]
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ...
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. ...
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

I am sure you have even more proof texts, feel free to keep posting and posting, but as per usual, they are just pulled out of context and not given any support as to why they prove unconditional election.

Probably because they do not, when placed back into context and proper hermeneutics is applied.

Always run to the proof texts and never deal with the passages that refute this dogma.

 

[BillyBob]

I am sure you have even more proof texts, feel free to keep posting and posting, but as per usual, they are just pulled out of context and not given any support as to why they prove unconditional election.

Probably because they do not, when placed back into context and proper hermeneutics is applied.

Always run to the proof texts and never deal with the passages that refute this dogma.

If God is sovereign [in absolute control of all creation] – then there can be no such thing as man's freewill. . . . . . The two are in opposition to each other! To say that man has freewill, is to say that God is not sovereign.

 

[cv5]

I am sure you have even more proof texts, feel free to keep posting and posting, but as per usual, they are just pulled out of context and not given any support as to why they prove unconditional election.

Probably because they do not, when placed back into context and proper hermeneutics is applied.

Always run to the proof texts and never deal with the passages that refute this dogma.

Standard clueless recitation of dogma bereft of in depth understanding, the understanding that only comes with legit sweat equity scholarship. This is the Calvinist way. Because if it were anything else, there wouldn't be a Calvinist remaining on planet earth.

Frankly, I don't think they give a hoot about sound doctrine and are unserious. And they love the ego trip and gatekeeping and bashing those awful depraved sinners out there. Crab pot mentality in spades.

 

[Jordon]

Free willers believe the flesh can do what Scripture says it cannot.

But they try to hide their error behind a vermin infested beard of CDS.

It doesn't work. Their error is plain as day.

Romans 8 v 5-9Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Yep his free will definitely did get the better of him trying to gaslight me like the other free willers,

I'm still in shock to be honest with what he rejected and how he rejected it. Not good really.

Anyway I'm 'working on yet a another new study, I think it must be 100 or more studies already I've worked on to help only really, but anyway , I've got another coming soon, I don't mind if it gets rejected lol

 

[Jordon]

Give up Jordon, cave men can't see the light!

haha maybe if we give him a Flintstone he will

 

[Jordon]

What a terrible, deplorable and appalling state man is in by nature, who once lived in perfect harmony and unity with God in a Garden of Paradise, but whom the Scriptures now describe "...is a worm" (Job 25:6).
** MDB **

I was saying when I first joined the thread that in order for Adam and eve to Disobey God, what do you think must of happened

Well for me the life that was in them also had word. When He breathed life into them, he also must have breathed word, life and word are the same are they not

The life was there in them speaking to his word m, that was in them that has always been from the beginning

I just wonder what word in the bible was breathed in to them in the form of clear authoritative will, that clearly demonstrates his sovereign Will.

 

[homwardbound]

we are under the Law of Messiah now and we are the living Tabernacle of God

That be the Law of Love to all. Not a few or just those one might choose and not love others by others actions and reactions. God loves us all. Proven in Son to us all, at least me, the one exact flesh image of God, which makes the two as Won (One for us to be one with them in love giving mercy to all, as got done by Son for us to be willingly dead to the first birth flesh John 4:23-24, see Romans 6:1-12
As he said Love all. God's type, 1 Cor 13:4-7, which no one else can do that perfect but Son, who did it, in my stead, yours as well, as our example of true Love, to trust Father to do the same through us to all. The only way anyone can do that type of love is by God doing it through them as Son did once for us all to get it imputed into us this old man flesh nature as born new from God in God's spirit and Truth. Amazing right? I need to do no more self work, God accepts us in by Son's done work, once for us all Hebrews 10:10, John 19:30, John 1:29 new life in the risen Christ is a gift from God Father too us, once anyone believes God, one begins new in truth over error and has lifetime here learning this unless die early as that thief on the cross with Jesus did, Saved, by God, through Son, not anyone else
And God knows who beleive sincerely and will grow us each up into this love and mercy for us all, Includes those not yet in belief yet.
It is The Love of God, revealed through Son that overcomes the world John 16:33 he did it, once for us all, to stand in belief to it. Son is risen and is proof to me it is finished for us to be new presently and not worry over things as gets taught to do through religions
Religions make anyone worse as sinners, that do not reveal that to anyone. I know been there in it. Now escaped it and have resifduals still working on, yet seeing what Jesus meant when he said to those religious leaders then
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Do you not see the rebuilding of the Temple, that was destroyed in AD 70, The present day Pharissees. Ask Father, Daddy, PaPa in risen Son. You will know calmly so

 

[Jordon]

King James likely is the best English translation and since I need to read the Word in English it is better than the rest; but I like Hebrew becasue I belive the NT was written in Hebrew and then translated into other languages. The Hebrew conveys Gods Hebraic thought in a way that the Greek obstructs and morphs into contractual concepts whereas the Hebrew is writtn in terms of His Covenantal Faithfulness...focus on God and not on man like the Greek does.

yep but new said you don't like the Greek NT but wasn't the kjv translated from Greek.

So How can you like the kjv if you don't like the Greek ?

 

[Jordon]

That be the Law of Love to all. Not a few or just those one might choose and not love others by others actions and reactions. God loves us all. Proven in Son to us all, at least me, the one exact flesh image of God, which makes the two as Won (One for us to be one with them in love giving mercy to all, as got done by Son for us to be willingly dead to the first birth flesh John 4:23-24, see Romans 6:1-12
As he said Love all. God's type, 1 Cor 13:4-7, which no one else can do that perfect but Son, who did it, in my stead, yours as well, as our example of true Love, to trust Father to do the same through us to all. The only way anyone can do that type of love is by God doing it through them as Son did once for us all to get it imputed into us this old man flesh nature as born new from God in God's spirit and Truth. Amazing right? I need to do no more self work, God accepts us in by Son's done work, once for us all Hebrews 10:10, John 19:30, John 1:29 new life in the risen Christ is a gift from God Father too us, once anyone believes God, one begins new in truth over error and has lifetime here learning this unless die early as that thief on the cross with Jesus did, Saved, by God, through Son, not anyone else
And God knows who beleive sincerely and will grow us each up into this love and mercy for us all, Includes those not yet in belief yet.
It is The Love of God, revealed through Son that overcomes the world John 16:33 he did it, once for us all, to stand in belief to it. Son is risen and is proof to me it is finished for us to be new presently and not worry over things as gets taught to do through religions
Religions make anyone worse as sinners, that do not reveal that to anyone. I know been there in it. Now escaped it and have resifduals still working on, yet seeing what Jesus meant when he said to those religious leaders then
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Do you not see the rebuilding of the Temple, that was destroyed in AD 70, The present day Pharissees. Ask Father, Daddy, PaPa in risen Son. You will know calmly so

they can't even bless the Calvies in Jesus name

 

[HeIsHere]

If God is sovereign [in absolute control of all creation] – then there can be no such thing as man's freewill. . . . . . The two are in opposition to each other! To say that man has freewill, is to say that God is not sovereign.

NO one is born unable to respond positively to the Gospel message.
You have NOT proven that being born separated from God means born unable to believe.
In fact it is quite ridiculous.

 

[Jordon]

nope ... I disagree with some of the claims you made.

that I disagree does not mean I've "missed the point".





fear is to be overcome through faith in God Who is the One Who fights on behalf of His people.

Isaiah 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 46:1-3 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Psalm 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Isaiah 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Deuteronomy 3:22 Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Lamentations 3:57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.

Psalm 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.



faith can be strengthened ...

We are instructed to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might, stand fast, and withstand.

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

.

ok a new study for you


we have discussed God's chosen men The 12 tribes of Israel being strengthened by God and made to tremble in fear, Deuteronomy 7 and judges 7, and both them trusting in the lord and having mercy and showing mercy,

Going back further back over 600000 men who also showing trust in the lord and worship and prayer, yet in numbers there where 600.000 men excluded from entering the promised land.

Men who had been. trained and nurtured, men who had been strengthened with devine intervention.

But yet they stopped trusting in God because they refused to fight , so God excluded 600000 men from entering the promised land late on in in numbers.

Now theses where his chosen people. Who where still closing there hearts

It was the second census count, it recorded all them men did not enter and the lord left them in the wilderness.

So now why would God do that surely God knew his enabling strength was enough for them to trust in him ? They must of started fearing for the wrong reason ?

Or was it they acted out of there own will as to why God rejected them ?

 

[BillyBob]

NO one is born unable to respond positively to the Gospel message.
You have NOT proven that being born separated from God means born unable to believe.
In fact it is quite ridiculous.

When we say that God is Sovereign we affirm His right to govern the universe which He has made for His own glory, just as He pleases. We affirm that His right is the right of the Potter over the clay, i.e., that He may mold that clay into whatsoever form He chooses, fashioning out of the same lump one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. We affirm that He is under no rule or law outside of His own will and nature, that God is a law unto Himself, and that He is under no obligation to give an account of His matters to any. Sovereignty characterizes the whole Being of God. He is Sovereign in all His attributes. He is Sovereign in the exercise of His power. His power is exercised as He wills, when He wills, where He wills. This fact is evidenced on every page of Scripture.”

** MDB **

 

[HeIsHere]

Standard clueless recitation of dogma bereft of in depth understanding, the understanding that only comes with legit sweat equity scholarship. This is the Calvinist way. Because if it were anything else, there wouldn't be a Calvinist remaining on planet earth.

Frankly, I don't think they give a hoot about sound doctrine and are unserious. And they love the ego trip and gatekeeping and bashing those awful depraved sinners out there. Crab pot mentality in spades.

It really is something isn't it ...everything you have stated is exactly right.

The elect have to be given special new powers (regenerated) to believe and respond positively........... but then everything else is plain reading.

When they say plain reading ...yup so very un-serious.

 

[Magenta]

I know that nothing good lives in my flesh...

For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit,
and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

Each of us has become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like
filthy rags; we all wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.

A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

There are none good, no not one!

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.

Oh, except for the free willers, in their delusional self-exalting fantasies.

They believe good dwells in their flesh, that it desires the things of God
and can please God even though Scripture says the exact opposite.

In vain they try to hide their denials of what Scripture explicitly articulates.
They try very hard to hide the fact that they continually contradict what is written.

Ah, they cannot hide their denials and contradictions behind their filthy beard of CDS. The verses making
plain the estate of man are not taken out of context no matter how many times they lie about it.

 

[rogerg]

I am sure you have even more proof texts, feel free to keep posting and posting, but as per usual, they are just pulled out of context and not given any support as to why they prove unconditional election.

Probably because they do not, when placed back into context and proper hermeneutics is applied.

Always run to the proof texts and never deal with the passages that refute this dogma.

And which passages would those be?

 

[Magenta]

And which passages would those be?

They don't have any.

 

[homwardbound]

they can't even bless the Calvies in Jesus name

Why focus there or anywhere of flesh nature. Why not ask God for the new life offered and then begin new and see new. No more getting caught up in religion(s)
that is what has been happening here in this world. People gathering together with I am right those over there are wrong. is that attitude good for any one of us?
I remember when I drank too much. I remember religion telling me I better stop or else, attitudes they gave me, and so yes I rebelled and would not join them. I drank too much for 14 years after my sister died on an overdose at age 18, I was 14 when she died.
Then at age 21 my eldest Brother John, who died shortly after telling me this: he was 31
He said to me, and started out belligerently to tell me to stop the drinking. I saw him stop, as if someone stopped him and I then saw him step back, Then came Back forward to me and said to me/ all I can tell you is: my drinking was not good for me. I was not told to quit or else. Just told truth, it was not good for me.
It was not until 7 years later, I saw the truth and agreed it is not good for me to continue it. I have now been dry for over 40 years. Because I agreed with God, what I had been doing was not good for me. I did not have to quit, I chose to by the love and mercy of God for us all, thanks. The new view from Father's view Romans 12:2 ask Dad for ?Dad's view through Son to you, and learn truth over many errors in this world still here.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

It really is something isn't it ...everything you have stated is exactly right.

The elect have to be given special new powers (regenerated) to believe and respond positively........... but then everything else is plain reading.

When they say plain reading ...yup so very un-serious.

Calvinists or Anti-Free Will Proponents simply are misreading those verses on what many Arminian believers would call “Prevenient Grace” verses (which I prefer to call “Divine Enlightenment or Enablement” verses).

Divine Enlightenment is the belief that God at the right time in a person’s life draws, convicts of sin, opens the heart and eyes to free the will of a person and remove the blinding of Satan in order to make a free will choice to either accept the saving gospel message by faith (to salvation) or reject it (and thus continue to remain lost). Faith leads to regeneration of the heart (to be born again) and gain access to God’s grace (salvation) (See Romans 5:2 KJV).

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