Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Caveman]

Sir if your not the 5th genez I apologize but your sure acting like him.

I'll say one last time sir.

When life was breathed into Adam, so was his word.

Life and word are the same.

So you see sir the life is speaking to his word in you.

Every knee shall bow all tho spoken in the bible was spoken from the beginning to the life and word in you and in everyone. Before there was no sin

Every knee shall bow.

Theres no life in you without his word

I know what you're trying to say...and I believe it too.

When my kids were little I would read to them from a children's picture bible and though it was missing a great deal of information it still conveyed the Word of God, but so the Greeked up NT also does too; but the closer you get to the original writing and intent of the Scripture the better we'll understand what God was saying (pharaoh hardening his own heart vs God strengthening example) because any translation by necessity loses or adds information. T

he Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts say The Son, the Son , The Son in John 1. The Greek doesn't say that because the Greek like to think in the abstract whereas the Hebrew thinks in concrete relational terms ie "Son" HebrewGospeldotcom if you want to find out more. Remember the original Bible wasn't written in English by King James...He did an ok job for having to translate though...no worse than a kids picture Bible at least.

 

[Caveman]

The enemy is is you insulting Gods word with a western greek view .

Then your labelling it on me, huh


Then trying to over power his word blaming the enemy still after 3 attempts you haven't accepted every knee will bow, then your using more greek to be more authoritative with.

Which by the way was probably a language used to silence people with, when the lord divided languages.

But you have freedom of thought to express, anyway I spoke English, and I'm not about to start learning greek.

So find someone else to speak greek with, I'm not interested.

Just so long as you know that God strengthened Pharaohs heart...and Pharoah hardened his own heart..at least you may have learned something from our back and forth

 

[Magenta]

The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.” Isaiah 14 verse 24 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations. Psalm 33 verse 11 Our God is in heaven; He does as He pleases. Psalm 115 verse 3 Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. Proverbs 19 verse 21 In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5

 

[Jordon]

Just so long as you know that God strengthened Pharaohs heart...and Pharoah hardened his own heart..at least you may have learned something from our back and forth

you know what the word is saying not me. The life speaks to his word in your heart, the life decreed all of his life shall worship the lord only. And every knee shall bow before sin existed.

Pharaoh hardened his heart 4 times, because his heart had only been partially thinned by the lord,

The lord did the same with his own people to, in many places.

Each time the lord hardened Pharaohs heart the more it thinned, and the last one the eight one, it thinned that much he bowed down, and said worship your lord to the Israelites sir.

And that was spoken from a king who had gained wealth and power from false Gods, why Pharaoh would not bow down to God, which demonstrates the lords can harden or soften whom he pleases ,

There Gods who where not able to control plagues, like God could.

All there plagues they released they could never stop.

The lord did stop them sir just like the one in Pharaoh's heart.

Which was why the lord never thinned his heart completely in the first place

He had to weaken each false God sorcery first by his power first,

 

[Caveman]

you know what the word is saying not me. The life speaks to his word in your heart, the life decreed all of his life shall worship the lord only. And every knee shall bow before sin existed.

Pharaoh hardened his heart 4 times, because his heart had only been partially thinned by the lord,

The lord did the same with his own people to, in many places.

Each time the lord hardened Pharaohs heart the more it thinned, and the last one the eight one, it thinned that much he bowed down, and said worship your lord to the Israelites sir.

And that was spoken from a king who had gained wealth and power from false Gods who would not be down to God, which demonstrates the lords can harden or soften whom he pleases ,

There Gods who where not able to control plagues, like God could.

All there plagues they released they could never stop.

The lord did stop them sir just like he one in Pharaoh's heart.

Which was why the lord never thinned his heart completely in the first place

He had to weaken each false God sorcery first by his power first,

Yes..Gods purpose was to Judge all of these Egyptian gods so they would know who the true God was...that's why many Egyptians also Believed and left Egypt with the Jews and they became a mixed multitude in the desert. God may soften anyone's heart, but He does not harden anyone's heart; as I proved in Exodus 9:12 (one of the key places where God is said to “harden” Pharaoh’s heart):

The Hebrew word is חָזַק (ḥāzaq)**, meaning to strengthen, to make firm, to restore vigor. In Exodus 9:12, it shows that God strengthened Pharaoh’s heart — letting him regain his willpower to keep fighting, rather than collapsing under the plagues.

 

[Jordon]

Yes..Gods purpose was to Judge all of these Egyptian gods so they would know who the true God was...that's why many Egyptians also Believed and left Egypt with the Jews and they became a mixed multitude in the desert. God may soften anyone's heart, but He does not harden anyone's heart; as I proved in Exodus 9:12 (one of the key places where God is said to “harden” Pharaoh’s heart):

The Hebrew word is חָזַק (ḥāzaq)**, meaning to strengthen, to make firm, to restore vigor. In Exodus 9:12, it shows that God strengthened Pharaoh’s heart — letting him regain his willpower to keep fighting, rather than collapsing under the plagues.

Sir listen please.

Each plague God Stopped was the hardening influence the false Gods had over Pharaohs heart.

Like the false God couldn't control plagues and stop them each time they released one.

So each time the lord released one and stopped them, it would weaken the influencing power the false Gods had over the pharaoh heart.

Eventually the pharaoh bowed down.

Each false God has different sorceries

 

[Caveman]

Sir listen please.

Each plague God Stopped was the hardening influence the false Gods had over Pharaohs heart.

Like the false God couldn't control plagues and stop them each time they released one.

So each time the lord released one and stopped them, it would weaken the influencing power the false Gods had over the pharaoh heart.

Eventually the pharaoh bowed down.

Jordon...I am listening and although I know I am correct in what Exodus 9:12 means (I already proved and explained it)

I Do Believe you have an great insight on this point you are making...I can agree with you here

 

[Jordon]

Jordon...I am listening and although I know I am correct in what Exodus 9:12 means (I already proved and explained it)

I Do Believe you have an great insight on this point you are making...I can agree with you here

dont think you are, your quoting one passage could mean absolutely anything. You've had several.

He would not listen to them could mean anything

You explain what that means to you, does it mean God would not listen, Pharaoh would not listen,

You explain what pharoah saying worship your lord means

And like I told you greek language would have been created to silence the people with at the time, not Christians of today,

 

[Caveman]

dont think you are, your quoting one passage could mean absolutely anything. You've had several.

He would not listen to them could mean anything

You explain what that means to you, does it mean God would not listen, Pharaoh would not listen,

You explain what pharoah saying worship your lord means

And like I told you greek language would have been created to silence the people with at the time, not Christians of today,

The Hebrew word is חָזַק (ḥāzaq)**, meaning to strengthen, to make firm, to restore vigor. In Exodus 9:12, it shows that God strengthened Pharaoh’s heart — letting him regain his willpower to keep fighting, rather than collapsing under the plagues. That is the Hebrew meaning of the Hebrew verse in Exodus..so I don't know how else you can think of it if you go by the Bible.

 

[Jordon]

The Hebrew word is חָזַק (ḥāzaq)**, meaning to strengthen, to make firm, to restore vigor. In Exodus 9:12, it shows that God strengthened Pharaoh’s heart — letting him regain his willpower to keep fighting, rather than collapsing under the plagues. That is the Hebrew meaning of the Hebrew verse in Exodus..so I don't know how else you can think of it if you go by the Bible.

What does this mean are the officials the Egyptians,? Did the Pharaoh not tell them to go to, are they not bowing down to God ?
Exodus 11
All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, ‘Go, you and all the people who follow you!

 

[Jordon]

The Hebrew word is חָזַק (ḥāzaq)**, meaning to strengthen, to make firm, to restore vigor. In Exodus 9:12, it shows that God strengthened Pharaoh’s heart — letting him regain his willpower to keep fighting, rather than collapsing under the plagues. That is the Hebrew meaning of the Hebrew verse in Exodus..so I don't know how else you can think of it if you go by the Bible.

Hebrew came after greek
Sumerian and Egyptian was before greek

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Yeah, look, everyone knows that GOD hardened the Pharaoh's heart!

 

[Jordon]

Yeah, look, everyone knows that GOD hardened the Pharaoh's heart!

lol several times to.

Apparently that ever happened
, goto go to work now bro.

See you soon

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Even this is grungily conceded...the NT is written by Jews to Jews (first Christian converts) and latter translated into Greek...at which point they skewed the Hebraic voice with its western Greekness "all about me and my faith, my loyalty" in a Greek contractual construct; not in a Hebraic Covenant Relational Construct with the emphasis on the Faithfulness of the Father and our Kinsman Redeemer. People like (Love) to have something to do with their salvation.

All of the men you listed as scholars are/were Jews, who are attempting to conform scripture to their worldview. Their ideas are untenable and the evidence supporting them is scant.

 

[Caveman]

All of the men you listed as scholars are/were Jews, who are attempting to conform scripture to their worldview. Their ideas are untenable and the evidence supporting them is scant.

Oh..Lets see.. the Greek centers on me-ism and my faith my belief and my loyalty whereas the Hebrew centers on our Kinsman Redeemer and His Faithfulness and His Covenantal Loyalty...Greek loves for man to have a part in his salvation whereas the Hebrew gives ALL the glory to God for what He alone accomplished at the Atonement when He Justified all ungodly men. This is the Gospel...the Greek and doctrinal construct of men have morphed the Gospel out of proportion and shifted the weight over to faithless man and away from our Faithfull Father.

Just because the scholarly consensus is that Greek was the original NT doesn't make it so...there's so much more weight in the Hebraic construct of the Gospel that points to the Hebrew as the original NT that the Greek was translated from. See HebrewGospeldotcom for more insight into the truth of the matter...Scant evidence is to equate numerous Greek manuscripts as proof of original writings when the Septuagint butchered the OT Hebrew Scripture as it does with the NT Greek translation with all it's abstract Greekness; Whereas the Hebrew centers on Covenantal Faithfulness of God and not us...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Check it out...the Septuagint also morphed the OT Hebrew that it was translated from; also no one will say the Septuagint has primacy over the OT Hebrew, like they do with the NT Greek bias.

The LXX actually does have primacy over the Masoretic Text in certain verses. As one example, more OT quotations in the NT match the LXX rather than the MT. The LXX was created by Jews in Alexandria for Jews living in a Greek world who didn't know Hebrew.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Oh..Lets see.. the Greek centers on me-ism and my faith my belief and my loyalty whereas the Hebrew centers on our Kinsman Redeemer and His Faithfulness and His Covenantal Loyalty...Greek loves for man to have a part in his salvation whereas the Hebrew gives ALL the glory to God for what He alone accomplished at the Atonement when He Justified all ungodly men. This is the Gospel...the Greek and doctrinal construct of men have morphed the Gospel out of proportion and shifted the weight over to faithless man and away from our Faithfull Father.

Just because the scholarly consensus is that Greek was the original NT doesn't make it so...there's so much more weight in the Hebraic construct of the Gospel that points to the Hebrew as the original NT that the Greek was translated from. See HebrewGospeldotcom for more insight into the truth of the matter...Scant evidence is to equate numerous Greek manuscripts as proof of original writings when the Septuagint butchered the OT Hebrew Scripture as it does with the NT Greek translation with all it's abstract Greekness; Whereas the Hebrew centers on Covenantal Faithfulness of God and not us...

These are just weird, fringe ideas that are a waste of time to follow..

 

[Caveman]

These are just weird, fringe ideas that are a waste of time to follow..

Right...you say that because you have investigated it to know you are correct...not!

You hold then to your scholarly consensus, doctrine of men and your Greeky NT that the focus is all about you and your faithfulness to enter into the salvation of God; and I will rest in His Salvation that He gifted me via the Atonement.

I know you must believe (your faith, your belief, and loyalty) to receive His Justification...that's what your Greek tells you...Even in the Greek He says that the Atonement was gifted to all ungodly men and that HE will glorify all those He Justified.

What do you do with that?

Ignore it or defer to your doctrine of men...tell me what your denomination says you must do in order to be saved?

Forget it, it's Greeky fringe and weird; and too foolish a waste of time to follow the lead of anyone that can't even concede what the plain text that says He died for the ungodly. Greek and the doctrine of men love to insert qualifiers so they can have their participation in their salvation...

 

[Jordon]

I know what you're trying to say...and I believe it too.

When my kids were little I would read to them from a children's picture bible and though it was missing a great deal of information it still conveyed the Word of God, but so the Greeked up NT also does too; but the closer you get to the original writing and intent of the Scripture the better we'll understand what God was saying (pharaoh hardening his own heart vs God strengthening example) because any translation by necessity loses or adds information. T

he Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts say The Son, the Son , The Son in John 1. The Greek doesn't say that because the Greek like to think in the abstract whereas the Hebrew thinks in concrete relational terms ie "Son" HebrewGospeldotcom if you want to find out more. Remember the original Bible wasn't written in English by King James...He did an ok job for having to translate though...no worse than a kids picture Bible at least.

I know it can be a disappointment to learn a language for a good reason, but then to never really get the chance to do what you intended to do, for learning the language.

But learning greek to go against the the king James bible, nar no thanks mate.

That's just shear ignorance.

On another note, you could say God devided languages to silence languages, as of the tower of babble.

So you could say as time evolved God created a new language to silence a language,

God created greek to silence Egyptian,

God created Hebrew to silence the greek

God created English to silence the greek.

All things are possible but I like this idea better than yours .

God said I will bring and raise mighty nation's against anyone who miss use his authority , the message.

Jews and greeks both known to worship false idols as the Egyptians.

Worshiping free will is a false idol.

My English gift from the lord is here to question it

 

[Caveman]

I know it can be a disappointment to learn a language for a good reason, but then to never really get the chance to do what you intended to do, for learning the language.

But learning greek to go against the the king James bible, nar no thanks mate.

That's just shear ignorance.

On another note, you could say God devided languages to silence languages, as of the tower of babble.

So you could say as time evolved God created a new language to silence a language,

God created greek to silence Egyptian,

God created Hebrew to silence the greek

God created English to silence the greek.

All things are possible but I like this idea better than yours .

God said I will bring and raise mighty nation's against anyone who miss use his authority , the message.

Jews and greeks both known to worship false idols as the Egyptians.

Worshiping free will is a false idol.

My English gift from the lord is here to question it

you miss understood me...I do not like the Greek NT I like the Hebrew Sephardic NT that it was originally written in.

The Greek abstracts the Covenantal Faithfulness of God and puts the focus wrongly on man's Faith and his loyalty which are flimsy and unreliable; BUT The Covenantal Father is Loyal to His Covenant and He accomplished everything at the Cross alone