Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Matthew 5-²²
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, raca (empty head) shall be in danger of the council: But whosoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire.

Thou fool = moros in Greek aka moron.

The idea seems to be here that if you make light of your fellow man you would be in danger of slander ( counsil) but if one makes damming bitter statements with references to hell ( heritic, lover of darkness, seed of the evil one) that person shall be in actual danger of hell themselves.

the way I see it is all born again believers are part of the one body of Christ ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head and born again believers are members of His body.

1 Corinthians 12 discusses this ...

1 Corinthians 12:14-27

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

we seem to be stuck, not having learned vs 21 ... think we'll ever get to vs 25???
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[reneweddaybyday]

Therein lies your problem. If God only enables us to make a choice, then salvation is no longer by grace. It is grace plus the work of man.

Therein lies your problem.

Scripture teaches grace alone.

really ? ... Scripture does not teach grace through faith ?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

vs 8 by grace through faith

vs 9 faith ≠ works (see also Romans 4:1-5 for Scripture which tells us faith ≠ works).

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[sawdust]

Unfortunately for you FWers Ex 3-4 chronologically precedes all the above. AND...Ex 4:21 harmonizes quite nicely with Prov 21:1. AND...Prove 21:1 is an unqualified statement; for God turning people's hearts is never contingent on their choices or actions.

You mean where the omniscient God, who knows the end from the beginning, declares what Pharaoh will do in advance and so warns Moses that in the end He, the Lord, will harden Pharaoh's heart because Pharaoh refused to listen and obey the very obvious signs that the Israelites kept being spared of the plagues while the Egyptians suffered? If you want to begin with Exodus 3 chronologically then it is the Pharaoh who made the first rebellious move.

Exodus 3:19-21
But I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not even by a mighty hand. 20 So I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My wonders which I will do in its midst; and after that he will let you go. 21 And I will give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and it shall be, when you go, that you shall not go empty-handed.

So seven verses of the Pharaoh refusing to listen and hardening his heart had no bearing whatsoever on the Lord hardening his heart?

Sure, if that is what you want to think, go for it. We are all just chess pieces on the board the Lord moves around at His sovereign whim. Our thoughts, desires, will has no value to Him therefore why consider them at all? Makes you wonder why God even bothered to create us that way.

You should take up pottery. You might learn the quality of the clay has an impact on what the Potter can do with it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No saint will be immutably free from the presence of sin until the dawn of the new age. That's when all the saints will be "magically" transformed into mind-numbed robots totally enslaved to holiness, righteousness and goodness as the Savior is.

lol ... why wait? ... you're free to put off the old man and put on the new man in this lifetime.

of course, you'll have to die to self ...

Galatians 6:7-10

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

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[reneweddaybyday]

Well you can either love labels or hate them

whatever ... I just thought it interesting that you refer to [whoever] as "pelican heretics" even as you complain about name-calling by some ... or maybe you've stopped complaining about the name calling ?

.

 

[Jordon]

lol ... why wait? ... you're free to put off the old man and put on the new man in this lifetime.

of course, you'll have to die to self ...

Galatians 6:7-10

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

.

you only die to self once your saved

 

[Jordon]

whatever ... I just thought it interesting that you refer to [whoever] as "pelican heretics" even as you complain about name-calling by some ... or maybe you've stopped complaining about the name calling ?

.

well I can love pelican heretics to

 

[Blue155]

You mean where the omniscient God, who knows the end from the beginning, declares what Pharaoh will do in advance and so warns Moses that in the end He, the Lord, will harden Pharaoh's heart because Pharaoh refused to listen and obey the very obvious signs that the Israelites kept being spared of the plagues while the Egyptians suffered? If you want to begin with Exodus 3 chronologically then it is the Pharaoh who made the first rebellious move.

Exodus 3:19-21
But I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not even by a mighty hand. 20 So I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My wonders which I will do in its midst; and after that he will let you go. 21 And I will give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians; and it shall be, when you go, that you shall not go empty-handed.

So seven verses of the Pharaoh refusing to listen and hardening his heart had no bearing whatsoever on the Lord hardening his heart?

Sure, if that is what you want to think, go for it. We are all just chess pieces on the board the Lord moves around at His sovereign whim. Our thoughts, desires, will has no value to Him therefore why consider them at all? Makes you wonder why God even bothered to create us that way.

You should take up pottery. You might learn the quality of the clay has an impact on what the Potter can do with it.

Since we reject Calvinism’s view of omniscience, what is the view you hold?

 

[sawdust]

Since we reject Calvinism’s view of omniscience, what is the view you hold?

We do? Omniscience is God knowing all things always. It's foundational to traditional Christianity.

Are you sure you're not confusing it with His Sovereignty?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

sadly you've missed the point

nope ... I disagree with some of the claims you made.

that I disagree does not mean I've "missed the point".

Can fear be strengthened

fear is to be overcome through faith in God Who is the One Who fights on behalf of His people.

Isaiah 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 46:1-3 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Psalm 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Isaiah 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Deuteronomy 3:22 Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Lamentations 3:57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.

Psalm 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.



faith can be strengthened ...

We are instructed to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might, stand fast, and withstand.

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

.

 

[Jordon]

Since we reject Calvinism’s view of omniscience, what is the view you hold?

omniscience,

Means God is everywhere and has always been and always will be.

All things is his.

Also in a key understanding of his omniscience, he is seen as a sustainer of all time Psalms 90:2

God is beyond the time as we experience it

Ring a ding ding

 

[reneweddaybyday]

you only die to self once your saved

Do you believe Rufus is yet unsaved?

.

 

[Jordon]

nope ... I disagree with some of the claims you made.

that I disagree does not mean I've "missed the point".





fear is to be overcome through faith in God Who is the One Who fights on behalf of His people.

Isaiah 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 46:1-3 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Psalm 118:6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Isaiah 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Deuteronomy 3:22 Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Lamentations 3:57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.

Psalm 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

Luke 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.



faith can be strengthened ...

We are instructed to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might, stand fast, and withstand.

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

.

somehow I knew we would disagree

But yet again we see you haven't answered how God put fear in his own strength

And again we see that your quoting all words spoken out through him

 

[reneweddaybyday]

well I can love pelican heretics to

phew ... good to hear ...

.

 

[Jordon]

Do you believe Rufus is yet unsaved?

.

Romans 9:18 says he could be

 

[Jordon]

phew ... good to hear ...

.

Thank God your not deaf

 

[sawdust]

Means God is everywhere and has always been and always will be.

That's omnipresent and eternal, not omniscience. Omniscience is knowing all things always.

 

[Jordon]

That's omnipresent and eternal, not omniscience. Omniscience is knowing all things always.

I says that to

omniscience, has much will

 

[Blue155]

Are you sure you're not confusing it with His Sovereignty?

I could very well be. Although there are different views on omniscience to avoid the Calvinistic version of strict, grim determinism where we have no free will, as if everything is like a movie.

 

[Magenta]

omniscience,

Means God is everywhere and has always been and always will be.

All things is his.

Also in a key understanding of his omniscience, he is seen as a sustainer of all time Psalms 90:2

God is beyond the time as we experience it

Ring a ding ding

Psalm 147 verse 5, Isaiah 40 verse 28b, Jeremiah 32 verse 17b, Isaiah 55 verse 9, Job 36 verse 5 ~ Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding has no limit. Psalm 147 verse 5 His understanding is beyond searching out. Isaiah 40 verse 28b Nothing is too difficult for You! Jeremiah 32 verse 17b For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55 verse 9 His understanding is beyond searching out. Isaiah 40 verse 28b He is mighty in strength of understanding. Job 36 verse 5