Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jackson129]

I have never heard anyone say otherwise. However, many believe that they can turn to God by their own FW. No help needed!

Ok so if we take that verse literly and how ot gets used most frequently in here. There is none that do good not one. I would take that to mean everyone on earth. The elect or chosen or predestined ect ect. So how do we do good?. That verse dosent say there is none that do good not one except the elect or the chosen ones they can do good.

 

[Jordon]

God does not harden a person's heart unless and until a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness whereby he or she first hardens his or her own heart.





Psalm 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

God's mercy is from everlasting to everlasting upon those who fear Him ... to fear the Lord means to have utmost reverence and respect.

those who harden their hearts to God do not fear Him ... which means they are obstinately stubborn, they resist God ... there is no mercy for those who resist God. If they repent and turn to God, then God is merciful.


please show me one verse in Scripture which indicates that mercy hardens the heart. thank you.

.

here's a question 1100 years before christ roughly, 32000 strong men where tested with the lords word, the test was God said to Gideon tell the 32000 army your going to war against the midianites, and tell them if any of them tremble with fear they can go home


Only 300 past the test and the rest all 31700 where sent home.

Question how did all those men tremble with fear from a judges word Gideon and how did the other 300 not


And how did God know each one was trembling with fear

 

[Jordon]

when you say you're "blue" ... does that mean you're sad?







.

sometimes

 

[Jordon]

@reneweddaybyday Oh and how did 300 men not tremble with fear

 

[Genez]

No its to prove that you can make someone believe

Like He did with Pharaoh?

 

[Genez]

@Genez : WHAT?!! GOD can do ANYTHING HE Likes!!

He only likes what is not evil, nor sin...

But, I suppose his 'sovereignty' allows Him to anything wrong... Right?

Please, make up your mind if you are going to be logically consistent.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

here's a question 1100 years before christ roughly, 32000 strong men where tested with the lords word, the test was God said to Gideon tell the 32000 army your going to war against the midianites, and tell them if any of them tremble with fear they can go home


Only 300 past the test and the rest all 31700 where sent home.

If you are referring to the record in Judges 7 ...

according to Judges 7:2, God wanted the children of Israel to know that it was He Who brings victory, so God instructed Gideon that whoever was fearful or afraid should leave.

according to Judges 7:3, 22,000 were afraid and left ... leaving 1,000 who were willing to fight the Midianites.

according to Judges 7:4-7, the 1,000 were still too many so God told Gideon to have the men drink water from the stream and those who drank directly from the stream were to be separated from those who drank water from their hands. God then promised Gideon that He would deliver the Midianites into Gideon's hand with the 300.

according to Judges 7:9-15, God further strengthened the faith of Gideon by having Gideon and Phurah go down to spy on the Midianites. Gideon heard a man telling his companion of a dream wherein the interpretation was this is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

Hearing this strengthened the faith of Gideon and he worshipped God, gathered the 300 and sent the Midianites packing.

Question how did all those men tremble with fear from a judges word Gideon and how did the other 300 not

I do not know. I do not believe everyone is cut out to be a warrior ... and there is nothing wrong with that ... and there's nothing wrong with being a warrior either. We need strong warriors ... we need good teachers ... we need construction workers ... we need ranchers ... we need farmers ... we need merchants ... we need all kinds to have a vibrant, successful, productive society.

And how did God know each one was trembling with fear

God searches the heart ... God knows.

.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

He only likes what is not evil, nor sin...

But, I suppose his 'sovereignty' allows Him to anything wrong... Right?

Please, make up your mind if you are going to be logically consistent.

@Genez ; Brother Genez: Didn't you say, somewhere above in this Thread, that GOD could not force a person to Believe?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

sometimes

well, I hope/pray you're not sad over the hardened heart issue where we are not 100% in agreement ... God works within each one of His kids and we all have things to bring to the table ... and we're all at different stages of maturity ... we can all learn from one another.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Oh and how did 300 men not tremble with fear

I believe it was 1,000 who were not fearful ... of the 1,000, God chose the 300.

As far as not trembling with fear ... I do not know of anyone who is involved in military conflict who is 100% comfortable in the engagement. Even in the record in Judges 7, Gideon had some trepidation:

Judges 7:9-15

9 And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Arise, get thee down unto the host; for I have delivered it into thine hand.

10 But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host:

11 And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the armed men that were in the host.

12 And the Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley like grasshoppers for multitude; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude.

13 And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.

14 And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

15 And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian.

in vs 10, God told Gideon that if he had any fear, he should take Phurah and go down to listen to the Midianites.

in vs 13, Gideon went ... indicating that he did have some fear.

I do not believe caution is a bad thing. God gave mankind emotions when He created, formed, made Adam. On Day 6, God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good (Gen 1:31).

The problem with our emotions is when we allow our emotions to rule over us. When we fear, this is a warning ... fear should cause us to be careful ... nothing wrong with that ... fear should point us to God Who is our sufficiency in every situation. However, when we allow our fear to dictate to the point where we do not trust in God, that is not good.

Maybe alarm or unease would be a better word to use. fear brings to mind a failure to trust in God.

.

 

[Jordon]

I believe it was 1,000 who were not fearful ... of the 1,000, God chose the 300.

As far as not trembling with fear ... I do not know of anyone who is involved in military conflict who is 100% comfortable in the engagement. Even in the record in Judges 7, Gideon had some trepidation:

Judges 7:9-15

9 And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Arise, get thee down unto the host; for I have delivered it into thine hand.

10 But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host:

11 And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the armed men that were in the host.

12 And the Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley like grasshoppers for multitude; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude.

13 And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.

14 And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

15 And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian.

in vs 10, God told Gideon that if he had any fear, he should take Phurah and go down to listen to the Midianites.

in vs 13, Gideon went ... indicating that he did have some fear.

I do not believe caution is a bad thing. God gave mankind emotions when He created, formed, made Adam. On Day 6, God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good (Gen 1:31).

The problem with our emotions is when we allow our emotions to rule over us. When we fear, this is a warning ... fear should cause us to be careful ... nothing wrong with that ... fear should point us to God Who is our sufficiency in every situation. However, when we allow our fear to dictate to the point where we do not trust in God, that is not good.

Maybe alarm or unease would be a better word to use. fear brings to mind a failure to trust in God.

.

You had me wondering so I've checked it 32000 to begin with


Judges 7

New International Version



Gideon Defeats the Midianites
7 Early in the morning, Jerub-Baal (that is, Gideon) and all his men camped at the spring of Harod. The camp of Midian was north of them in the valley near the hill of Moreh. 2 The Lord said to Gideon, “You have too many men. I cannot deliver Midian into their hands, or Israel would boast against me, ‘My own strength has saved me.’

His chosen people with the lords strength in them, where boasting it was there own, so the lord God made them tremble with fear. And to other he left with his strength.

Which was the same in Deuteronomy 7 when he said show them no mercy.

Next

3 Now announce to the army, ‘Anyone who trembles with fear may turn back and leave Mount Gilead.’” So twenty-two thousand men left, while ten thousand remained.

Count here 32000 to begin with. This means just alone by announcing Gods word 10000 have already tremble with fear..



4 But the Lord said to Gideon, “There are still too many men. Take them down to the water, and I will thin them out for you there.

This is lord God saying I will make the rest tremble with fear.

Notice he is making people believe


If I say, ‘This one shall go with you,’ he shall go; but if I say, ‘This one shall not go with you,’ he shall not go.”
5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the Lord told him, “Separate those who lap the water with their tongues as a dog laps from those who kneel down to drink.” 6 Three hundred of them drank from cupped hands, lapping like dogs. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

Notice The lord God made 21700 men tremble with fear to drink the water the way they did, he made them do it . Notice Hardening of hearts can be used to save people as in Romans 9:18 to.

The rest he strengthened with strengthening fear. A hardening

300 men had there hearts hardened as in Deuteronomy 7. where the lord replaced there mercy and affection he had already place in there hearts, where he hardened there hearts he said show them no mercy

Again gardening there hearts to save


7 The Lord said to Gideon, “With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the others go home.” 8 So Gideon sent the rest of the Israelites home but kept the three hundred, who took over the provisions and trumpets of the others.

The whole purpose of this is to not boast and sat you can say God's strength is your own strength.

 

[Jordon]

Oop you can not say God's strength is your own strength.

 

[Jordon]

And God makes people believe

 

[Jordon]

well, I hope/pray you're not sad over the hardened heart issue where we are not 100% in agreement ... God works within each one of His kids and we all have things to bring to the table ... and we're all at different stages of maturity ... we can all learn from one another.

.

No one is ever perfect in agreement, but simple understanding like mercy being the first key that opens the door, is pretty much evident here.

It's like the mana that rained down on them prophesized and that manna that fell upon them was the bread from heaven which fed them in the desert which made them believe.

And its the same for mercy falling on then it fed them. And its clear it enabled there hearts, where many times the lord God got cross with them for hardening there hearts so many times.

But the point here is the fathers mercy is Also the sons mercy.

The first mercy is the key the second mercy is the seal

 

[Jordon]

@Genez ; Brother Genez: Didn't you say, somewhere above in this Thread, that GOD could not force a person to Believe?

God rejects all evil he reject all evil because sin is the evil that poisoned our seed in the garden of eden, Which means God now has to make you believe. But to him its not that.

The trouble is genez doesn't believe sin is evil. Even after being shown in several places it is to God.

So to him yes God can't force a person to believe because Satan made people do it.

So satan is the evil in his eyes people are not, and every thing is satans fault,

The only trouble is it can't be proven satan was in the garden of eden, and even if he was,

Adam and eve still had a choice to not sell themselves to sin,

So Makes no difference if it was satan either way, because the serpent that many scholars say may not have been. satan, may have been a cunning animal that is described as a satan.

So in his eyes what he is saying is nobody can be forced to believe, because it's not there fault there fallen. In others words unbelief is not a sin either.

So there for your free will entities you to choose


Basically free will pelican heretics that deny the fall of man and Gods sovereignty, hence the reason they Keep calling us the names they do.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

God rejects all evil he reject all evil because sin is the evil that poisoned our seed in the garden of eden, Which means God now has to make you believe. But to him its not that.

The trouble is genez doesn't believe sin is evil. Even after being shown in several places it is to God.

So to him yes God can't force a person to believe because Satan made people do it.

So satan is the evil in his eyes people are not, and every thing is satans fault,

The only trouble it can't be proven satan was in the garden of eden, and even if he was,

Adam and eve still had a choice to not sell themselves to sin,

Makes no difference if it was satan either way, because serpent that many scholars say may not have satan, may have been a cunning animal that is described as a satan.

So in his eyes what he is saying is nobody can be forced to believe because it's not there fault there fallen. In others words unbelief is not a sin either.

So there for your free will entities you to choose


Basically free will pelican heretics that deny the fall of man and Gods sovereignty, hence the reason they Keep calling us the names they do.

@Jordon : Brilliant comments, Bro!

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : Brilliant comments, Bro!

I wished it wasn't my mate.

But take care will chat soon, I think you'll be better reading my last few posts more.

In back on day duty now, so im not sure how much I will see you but the care.

Probably not as much now.

Bye Douglas

I pray in Jesus name you will be well

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

I wished it wasn't my mate.

But take care will chat soon, I think you'll be better reading my last few posts more.

In back on day duty now, so im not sure how much I will see you but the care.

Probably not as much now.

Bye Douglas

I pray in Jesus name you will be well

@Jordon : This isn't so good, my dear brother! I hope I can catch you, at least a little bit, now that you'll be back on day duty?!

Please take good care and stay safe my dear mate.

And may GOD BLESS you always.

Douglas

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : This isn't so good, my dear brother! I hope I can catch you, at least a little bit, now that you'll be back on day duty?!

Please take good care and stay safe my dear mate.

And may GOD BLESS you always.

Douglas

I hope so to lol, its not to bad it 7.30 pm now where you are right

 

[Jordon]

Anyway aus if im on late at night we can express some good will then and bless the Calvies