Loss of salvation???

[vassal]

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

So, the question remains: Did Jesus send them to preach to all men, including Gentiles, at the exclusion to this verse above? Was He in the habit of reversing His instruction to them so radically? I've heard many justifications for interpreting the latter for going to every creature as allegedly breaking the former instruction concerning the Jews only.

Dare we think about it, the twelve would have spread the Kingdom Gospel much more effectively preaching it only to fellow Jews, thus duplicating themselves many fold, getting that gospel out to the Gentiles, and yet MOST of the apostles remained in Jerusalem. The book of Acts makes that VERY clear. Why do you supposed that was, that the majority of the apostles failed to do as Jesus commanded in the last of His instructions to them? Never mind the theories rooted in what was commanded, look ALSO at their actions, which defied the instructions. Their actions show to us the massive shift that took place at the murder to Stephen.

Once that middle wall of partition came down, salvation came unto the Gentiles what had never been available to them before apart from joining with Israel. Jew-hating Evangelicals and religionists alike hate this reality with a passion and so try to drown it out with their false doctrines and slight of hand antics to change how their blind followers see the text in what it's saying.

MM

The first thing we must remember is that God always works with a plan. We must never think we know better than Him. When Jesus first sent the twelve, He told them not to go to the Gentiles. Matthew 10:5 is true. But this command was only for that moment. Jesus was training them step by step, the same way God trained Israel in stages in the Old Testament. He never gives everything at once. He prepares His servants, then He sends them farther.

Jesus Himself explained that His plan began with Israel, but would later reach the whole world. He said this many times. In John 10:16 He said, “Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice.” These “other sheep” were not Jews. Jesus made it clear the message would leave Israel.
After His resurrection Jesus spoke again, and now He gave a new and final command. Matthew 28:19 says, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.” Mark 16:15 says, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” These are His last orders. They do not cancel the first command. They complete it. The first mission was training. The last mission was the full assignment.
You asked if Jesus reverses Himself. He does not change His mind like a man. But He leads His servants from the beginning of a plan to the end of a plan. God did this with Abraham, with Moses, with the prophets, and now with the apostles. He starts small, then grows the mission. He prepares before He sends. This is His way.

It is also not true that the apostles “failed.” In Acts we see a clear order given by Jesus: “You shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” This is Acts 1:8. Notice the order: first Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, then the rest of the world. And that is exactly what happened. They did not stay in Jerusalem out of rebellion. They stayed because that was the first step in the plan Jesus Himself gave.
And they did not remain there forever. Peter was the first to be sent to the Gentiles. In Acts 10 God sent him to Cornelius, a Roman. Peter himself said that God had shown him that no one is unclean. This happened long before any idea of a “middle wall” falling because of Stephen. It happened because God decided the time had come. In Acts 15 we see the leaders of the church in Jerusalem approving the message going to the Gentiles. They did not resist God’s plan. They accepted it.
Later writings from the early church show that many of the apostles left Israel and preached in other nations. This matches the command of Jesus and the direction of the Holy Spirit. None of this is rebellion. It is obedience to God’s timing.
To accuse the apostles of disobeying Jesus is very serious. Jesus trusted these men. He prayed for them. He said in John 17:18, “As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.” They were faithful. They suffered, they traveled, they preached, and many gave their lives.
The idea that the apostles “hated Gentiles” or tried to keep salvation from them is not found in Jesus’ words, the apostles’ actions, or the Old Testament. God told Abraham that through his seed all nations would be blessed. This is Genesis 22:18. From the beginning God planned for the whole world to hear His truth.

The truth is simple. Jesus began with Israel because that was God’s plan. Then He opened the door to the nations because that also was God’s plan. The apostles followed the plan. They did not fight it. They obeyed the order Jesus gave at the end: go to all people everywhere. The gospel reached the nations because God wanted it to reach them.
And we must be careful not to accuse God’s chosen witnesses or to judge God’s plan as if we understand it better.

God leads. We follow. That is the only safe path.

 

[vassal]

Yes, Peter occasionally ventured out, but then he would return to Jerusalem post haste. That's easy to overlook in all this noise of assumptions about the rest of the apostles, who clearly are shown to be ONLY in Jerusalem. Luke also traveled extensively, never being mentioned as being among the apostles who were perpetually in Jerusalem. Show to us where James is shown to have been anywhere BUT in Jersualem, of Matthias or any others.

They fully understood the decline of Israel as the nation of priests the Lord intended for them to be, only to be put on hold and taken up at a later time through a duration of time they were never appraised. They could not have known that more than 2000 years would pass before the nation would see what Jesus said would take place within the very lives of SOME of the people standing in His presence during His earthly ministry. Many have tried to argue against this reality within the context, but only to the detriment to their own integrity, for scripture says what it says at the exclusion of wishful thinking.

MM

The truth is simple. God had a plan, and we must not speak as if we know it better than the Lord who guides all things.
Yes, Peter spent time in Jerusalem, but God sent him out when the right moment came. In Acts 10 he was sent to Cornelius, a Roman, and God Himself confirmed this by the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:34–48). After that Peter defended the Gentile mission before the whole church and won their agreement (Acts 11:1–18). His return to Jerusalem was not disobedience but obedience to his place in God’s plan.
James also had a clear calling. He was the overseer of the believers in Jerusalem. That was his task, not a sign of failure. When the apostles met in Acts 15 to decide the future of Gentile believers, James gave the final ruling, saying that God had “visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name” (Acts 15:14). That is not the voice of a man who resisted God’s work among the nations. It is the voice of a servant who understood the time and the will of God.
As for the others, Scripture does not record every journey, because the book of Acts follows only a few workers closely. The silence of the text is not proof that they stayed forever in one place. The Old Testament shows again and again that God reveals His plan little by little, and His servants walk forward without knowing how long the seasons will last. Jesus said some who stood before Him would see judgment fall on Jerusalem (Matthew 23:36, Matthew 24:34), and this happened exactly as He said in the year 70.
So instead of guessing motives, we trust the plan of God. He sent the apostles first to Jerusalem, then outward. He opened the door to the nations at the moment He chose. And His servants obeyed His call in the way He appointed.

 

[vassal]

No, those ten commandments were the precursor to the Mosaic Law. Please don't construe my answer as my saying that we therefore have license to perpetrate moral sins. The morality originating from the Lord is now WITHIN us by way of Holy Spirit, not the letter upon stone. We don't have to keep the Sabbath, for that was directed only at Israel. If you choose to try and keep the Sabbath, that's fine for you, but I, as an Israeli saved by Grace through faith and filled with Holy Spirit, no. I once kept the Sabbath along with my fellow Messianic Jews, but no longer, for I have no desire to again kiss some massive scroll of Torah ceremonially carried about the crowd for each to kiss. No. My allegiance is no longer to that code of death.

Realistically, it's not only those who believe in Paul's gospel who don't keep the ten commandments. You don't, so why ask me if I do when you know that the vast majority of Evangelicals don't? I'm just trying to understand what this has to do with our previous discussion.

So, when you say that people who follow Paul "exclusively," as some sorted, slight of hand magic trick of casting a demonic spell of shadow and negativity upon those who believe in Paul's Gospel above that of the Kingdom Gospel, please. That's a false characterization of others and an admission and desire for failing to rightly divide the word of truth. I don't study ONLY Paul's epistles, but I can show to you how little you know about the rest.

I do appreciate conversing with you, but this kind of crap can be left on the doorstep outside so that we can dispense with the periphery jabs and deal only with what scripture teaches to us. Granted, changes and shifts that have progressively taken place throughout the scriptures, that reality does throw many people off-balance, including the many false teaching, institutional pastors out there behind so many of churchianity's pulpits, preaching their love for replacement theology in its many, many manifestations, usually couched within small bits and pieces of leaven that cause the entire loaf to rise up in fleshly pride among Gentiles out there.

Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years [HINT, HINT] I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

There is so much subtlety in those verses and many others that are so easily overlooked when zipping and zinging through the scriptures like a novel. Consider: The owner instructed the "dresser" to cut it down, and the "dresser" then placed the onus upon the owner to cut down that tree IF it did not produce fruit within the ensuing year. Do you see that?

Who do you suppose the owner was, and who was the dresser? Of whom was that tree a representation? What happened on year after the ascension of Christ? All this stuff is amazing and telling for the astute student of the Bible.

MM

MM, Yyour answer shows exactly what I warned you about. You speak so much from Paul that you have forgotten the words of Christ, the prophets, and the covenant God Himself declared. Jesus never said the Ten Commandments were “a code of death.” He never said they were cancelled. He said the opposite.
Jesus said, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He listed them. He treated them as binding and holy. He said not one “jot or tittle” would pass from the Law until heaven and earth pass (Matthew 5:18). Heaven and earth are still here.
You say the Ten Commandments were only a “precursor,” but God Himself called them the covenant. “So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments” (Deuteronomy 4:13). Nothing else is called the covenant. Not ceremonies. Not sacrifices. The Ten Commandments.
And the new covenant does not remove them. Jeremiah said the new covenant would put the same Law inside our hearts, not throw it away. “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts” (Jeremiah 31:33). God said this about Israel and Judah, not about ending His own commandments.
Jesus repeated the same thing. He said obedience proves love, and He said His words will judge us at the last day (John 14:21, John 12:48). None of this comes from stone tablets. It comes from the living Lord.
You treat the Sabbath like a burden “only for Israel,” but Jesus said He is Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8). He never called it a curse. He never ended it. In the end times He warned His followers to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath (Matthew 24:20). That was spoken for the future, not the past.
You say the commandments no longer matter because “the Spirit is within you.” Jesus said the Spirit leads us to obey, not to ignore. “The Spirit of truth… will guide you into all truth” (John 16:13). Truth is never disobedience.
You also try to shame those who obey Jesus by calling the commandments “periphery jabs,” yet Jesus called obedience the foundation of a wise life (Matthew 7:24). When you speak lightly of what He spoke so strongly, ans spent so much time teaching in the temple and to the people, you show whose voice you are truly following.
The sad truth is that you defend Paul so strongly that you brush aside the clear words of Jesus, the Ten Commandments God wrote with His own hand, and the new covenant described by Jeremiah. The new covenant does not erase the Law. It writes it inside the heart so that obedience becomes natural, not forced.

Even Paul, he man you follow so strongly never spoke against the Ten Commandments. He called the commandments “holy and just and good” and said the Law is “spiritual.” He repeated several of the Ten Commandments himself, proving he did not consider them cancelled. Paul was speaking then of the laws of Moses for temple sacrifices and such, as being old and obsolete, never the ten commandments but many are confused about this. If even Paul respected the commandments, why would you speak against what both God and Christ uphold and Paul?

Before arguing about fig trees and hidden hints, answer the simple question clearly and honestly: Do you keep the Ten Commandments Jesus told you to keep? If the answer is no, then say no, but do not blame God’s Law. And do not call holy things “death.” Because Jesus never did.

 

[HigherGospel]

Yet falsely accusing others of believing something that they don't believe is slander and is sin

Well when the future gets here we'll see who ends up where

The false gracers go south so there's still time for these folks to repent of their heresies but time is quickly running out.

A word to the wise should be sufficient but rarely is.

Getting ceremonially wet isn't what cleansed their sin, as you likely know, but for the benefit of others, it was the faith expressed in obedience to that command from the twelve to Israel for those who were able to obey.

Being water baptized is about clearing one's conscience

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[mailmandan]

Well when the future gets here we'll see who ends up where

The false gracers go south so there's still time for these folks to repent of their heresies but time is quickly running out.

A word to the wise should be sufficient but rarely is. View attachment 282143

False Christians (unbelievers) go south, and genuine Christians (believers) go north. (John 3:18)

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer? Your answer to this question will demonstrate what you truly believe in/have faith in for salvation.

 

[HigherGospel]

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven

Jesus is not at Heaven's gate conducting interviews asking people why He should let them in and then makes His decision based on how they answer.

Nothing like Saturday morning comedy hour!

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus is not at Heaven's gate conducting interviews asking people why He should let them in and then makes His decision based on how they answer.

Nothing like Saturday morning comedy hour! View attachment 282146

Of course He is not which was not the purpose of the question. The purpose of my question was to demonstrate by your answer what you truly believe in/have faith in for salvation. So, what would your answer be to that question or would you rather stick with your diversion?

 

[HeIsHere]

Of course He is not which was not the purpose of the question. The purpose of my question was to demonstrate by your answer what you truly believe in/have faith in for salvation. So, what would your answer be to that question or would you rather stick with your diversion?

I sense an agenda.

 

[mailmandan]

I sense an agenda.

It's very telling that he refuses to answer my question. The Bible says be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. (1 Peter 3:15)

 

[HeIsHere]

It's very telling that he refuses to answer my question. The Bible says be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. (1 Peter 3:15)

Do they really have hope? I wonder.

Ultimately they are relying on themselves for their salvation.
I cannot see any peace, joy, rest or growth in that doctrine, I like you left the RCC.

Everything flows from knowing one is secure in Him, which is the impetus to serve God freely, otherwise as Paul clearly states we make God the one with obligations to us.

If one does not have security then everything becomes a means to attain or maintain salvation.
They can refute this by saying I not working for my salvation but they are, it is indisputable.
The cross and resurrection become necessary but not sufficient.

I guess this place has always had its "worker bees" but it seems so prevalent now.

 

[mailmandan]

Do they really have hope? I wonder.

Ultimately they are relying on themselves for their salvation.
I cannot see any peace, joy, rest or growth in that doctrine, I like you left the RCC.

Everything flows from knowing one is secure in Him, which is the impetus to serve God freely, otherwise as Paul clearly states we make God the one with obligations to us.

If one does not have security then everything becomes a means to attain or maintain salvation.
They can refute this by saying I not working for my salvation but they are, it is indisputable.
The cross and resurrection become necessary but not sufficient.

I guess this place has always had its "worker bees" but it seems so prevalent now.

Exactly! Very well said.

 

[Musicmaster]

The first thing we must remember is that God always works with a plan. We must never think we know better than Him. When Jesus first sent the twelve, He told them not to go to the Gentiles. Matthew 10:5 is true. But this command was only for that moment. Jesus was training them step by step, the same way God trained Israel in stages in the Old Testament. He never gives everything at once. He prepares His servants, then He sends them farther.

What's the basis for that assumption...that it was only momentary?

Jesus Himself explained that His plan began with Israel, but would later reach the whole world. He said this many times. In John 10:16 He said, “Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice.” These “other sheep” were not Jews. Jesus made it clear the message would leave Israel.

Where does scripture define who those other sheep are in relation to your assumption?

After His resurrection Jesus spoke again, and now He gave a new and final command. Matthew 28:19 says, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.” Mark 16:15 says, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” These are His last orders. They do not cancel the first command. They complete it. The first mission was training. The last mission was the full assignment.
You asked if Jesus reverses Himself. He does not change His mind like a man. But He leads His servants from the beginning of a plan to the end of a plan. God did this with Abraham, with Moses, with the prophets, and now with the apostles. He starts small, then grows the mission. He prepares before He sends. This is His way.

And yet you're saying He changed His mind on the basis of training, a concept that's nowhere stated, so, again, I ask where you're getting this stuff you're injecting into the scriptures. I hope you don't mind my asking and understand the importance of knowing the source for the information that you appear to be inserting where it doesn't exist. Granted, some things not stated can be logically derived, but that's something we have to be careful about.

It is also not true that the apostles “failed.” In Acts we see a clear order given by Jesus: “You shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” This is Acts 1:8. Notice the order: first Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, then the rest of the world. And that is exactly what happened. They did not stay in Jerusalem out of rebellion. They stayed because that was the first step in the plan Jesus Himself gave.
And they did not remain there forever. Peter was the first to be sent to the Gentiles. In Acts 10 God sent him to Cornelius, a Roman. Peter himself said that God had shown him that no one is unclean. This happened long before any idea of a “middle wall” falling because of Stephen. It happened because God decided the time had come. In Acts 15 we see the leaders of the church in Jerusalem approving the message going to the Gentiles. They did not resist God’s plan. They accepted it.

I'm still waiting on the proof that they all left Jerusalem, given that most died in or around Jerusalem if we take Acts seriously. Tradition is the only sourcing for the majority of the accounts of their deaths and where those deaths occurred. I don't put much stock in traditions, which can be viewed as heresay.

Later writings from the early church show that many of the apostles left Israel and preached in other nations. This matches the command of Jesus and the direction of the Holy Spirit. None of this is rebellion. It is obedience to God’s timing.

Again, what scriptural proof do you have beyond Acts, which has proven quite reliable. Early church writings, even from the Nicene and Ante Nicene writers are also suspect given the various influences those men are known to have been under in their times.

To accuse the apostles of disobeying Jesus is very serious. Jesus trusted these men. He prayed for them. He said in John 17:18, “As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.” They were faithful. They suffered, they traveled, they preached, and many gave their lives.
The idea that the apostles “hated Gentiles” or tried to keep salvation from them is not found in Jesus’ words, the apostles’ actions, or the Old Testament. God told Abraham that through his seed all nations would be blessed. This is Genesis 22:18. From the beginning God planned for the whole world to hear His truth.

The truth is simple. Jesus began with Israel because that was God’s plan. Then He opened the door to the nations because that also was God’s plan. The apostles followed the plan. They did not fight it. They obeyed the order Jesus gave at the end: go to all people everywhere. The gospel reached the nations because God wanted it to reach them.
And we must be careful not to accuse God’s chosen witnesses or to judge God’s plan as if we understand it better.

God leads. We follow. That is the only safe path.

I quoted the scripture from the Book of Acts, and still find that far more reliable than external sources not at all known to be inspired.

Acts shows that the apostles remained in Jerusalem, even after the dispersion from the persecutions going on after Stephen's stoning a year after the Ascension. In acts 15, which was about 18 years after the ascension of Christ, the apostles are still in Jerusalem, and again in Acts 21, almost 30 years after the ascension of Christ, according to the timeline of that book. (https://biblehub.com/timeline/acts/1.htm)

In your thinking, how long is too long to take in obeying the Lord if that command from the Lord concerning the Kingdom Gospel was still valid...or had something else happened?

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Do you get the ramifications of those verses? If something came unto the Gentiles, that clearly means it wasn't unto them before. The fall of Israel, therefore, as is stated above, was the means by which that middle wall of partition was brought down so that salvation could THEN come unto the Gentiles, with both being made one, all of which is stated above.

MM

 

[vassal]

What's the basis for that assumption...that it was only momentary?



Where does scripture define who those other sheep are in relation to your assumption?



And yet you're saying He changed His mind on the basis of training, a concept that's nowhere stated, so, again, I ask where you're getting this stuff you're injecting into the scriptures. I hope you don't mind my asking and understand the importance of knowing the source for the information that you appear to be inserting where it doesn't exist. Granted, some things not stated can be logically derived, but that's something we have to be careful about.



I'm still waiting on the proof that they all left Jerusalem, given that most died in or around Jerusalem if we take Acts seriously. Tradition is the only sourcing for the majority of the accounts of their deaths and where those deaths occurred. I don't put much stock in traditions, which can be viewed as heresay.



Again, what scriptural proof do you have beyond Acts, which has proven quite reliable. Early church writings, even from the Nicene and Ante Nicene writers are also suspect given the various influences those men are known to have been under in their times.



I quoted the scripture from the Book of Acts, and still find that far more reliable than external sources not at all known to be inspired.

Acts shows that the apostles remained in Jerusalem, even after the dispersion from the persecutions going on after Stephen's stoning a year after the Ascension. In acts 15, which was about 18 years after the ascension of Christ, the apostles are still in Jerusalem, and again in Acts 21, almost 30 years after the ascension of Christ, according to the timeline of that book. (https://biblehub.com/timeline/acts/1.htm)

In your thinking, how long is too long to take in obeying the Lord if that command from the Lord concerning the Kingdom Gospel was still valid...or had something else happened?

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Do you get the ramifications of those verses? If something came unto the Gentiles, that clearly means it wasn't unto them before. The fall of Israel, therefore, as is stated above, was the means by which that middle wall of partition was brought down so that salvation could THEN come unto the Gentiles, with both being made one, all of which is stated above.

MM

scripture is closed to you there is nothing more I can do for you until you read and understand that is written clearly, I keep repeating, giving you the truth you keep denying scripture. it is the choice you made so be it. you speak of assumption when it is not it is scripture that I already gave you Jesus sent them to preach all he did ans say to all the world, it is called the great commission and is in your bible. at least consider reading what I wrote to you I believe you did not or throughout it in a flash.

I have news for you Paul is not GOD, Jesus is! you better listen to him and do as he asks but that does not depend on you but will happen only if the father in heaven wills it, it is him who calls people and opens their heart to the truth.

since this thread is about salvation, ill let you know how to get to heaven it is simple and not easy at the same time, obey the Ten Commandments, That is God's will.

I could not leave here without trying , I wish you well.

 

[HeIsHere]

obey the Ten Commandments, That is God's will.

Do it yourself salvation.

Who knew, we need to get a message to Christ Jesus and tell Him, His work, His life, His offering, His resurrection was all for naught.

 

[Musicmaster]

Do it yourself salvation.

Who knew, we need to get a message to Christ Jesus and tell Him, His work, His life, His offering, His resurrection was all for naught.

I'm not speaking for whomever wrote what you responded to with this, but the increasingly Evangelical idea that we should be following the ten commandments seems to be rooted in the idea that such is the means by which they retain their salvation, which, if it were retained by works, then, as you pointed out, it also had to be earned by works if works of our efforts had anything at all to do with salvation. This is nothing more than the start of construction on the road to ecumenical blends with pagan gods.

There was a time that Evangelicals were vehemently opposed to the Roman Catholic concept of earned retention and gaining of salvation by any measure of self-effort. Through the decades I've been witnessing the increasing victory the Romish system of religion is winning over what's called "Protestantism," by way of the satanic compromises of ecumenicalism.

It's only going to get worse as see the Romish religion now embracing Islam and other pagan religions of the world, establishing prayer and worship center rooms within the Vatican for those who worship false gods. That amalgam blend of pagan religions is fast becoming just like that large tent Muhammed allegedly found holding hundreds of representative idols of many false gods, with him settling on the idolic symbol of the moon god now symbolized on their mosques and on their flags and broadcasts. The Vatican, through the wicked popes, is becoming the pagan worship center of the world with Western Roman Catholic bishops refusing to grow enough of a spine to speak out against this transportation into joining with the religions of the world.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

scripture is closed to you there is nothing more I can do for you until you read and understand that is written clearly, I keep repeating, giving you the truth you keep denying scripture. it is the choice you made so be it. you speak of assumption when it is not it is scripture that I already gave you Jesus sent them to preach all he did ans say to all the world, it is called the great commission and is in your bible. at least consider reading what I wrote to you I believe you did not or throughout it in a flash.

I have news for you Paul is not GOD, Jesus is! you better listen to him and do as he asks but that does not depend on you but will happen only if the father in heaven wills it, it is him who calls people and opens their heart to the truth.

since this thread is about salvation, ill let you know how to get to heaven it is simple and not easy at the same time, obey the Ten Commandments, That is God's will.

I could not leave here without trying , I wish you well.

Yes, you have been writing things that you believe is the truth, but that's no reason to stop considering what scripture actually says. For example, in Galatians 1: 11-12, Paul gives to us clear proof of there being two gospels, and yet Evangelicals continue to parrot the claim that there's only one gospel throughout. It seems to make no difference to them that they are defending what is patently false. The attitude seems to be, "This is what I believe and nothing else matters..."

That is a sick attitude exhibited by so many, all at the exclusion of what scripture says in detail.

MM

 

[vassal]

Yes, you have been writing things that you believe is the truth, but that's no reason to stop considering what scripture actually says. For example, in Galatians 1: 11-12, Paul gives to us clear proof of there being two gospels, and yet Evangelicals continue to parrot the claim that there's only one gospel throughout. It seems to make no difference to them that they are defending what is patently false. The attitude seems to be, "This is what I believe and nothing else matters..."

That is a sick attitude exhibited by so many, all at the exclusion of what scripture says in detail.

MM

With absolute certainty I can say there is only one gospel message, the one Jesus gave us and all the apostles, like I said you cannot see it now, this is closed to you and you will not understand until you do the will of God, then perhaps if it is his will he will open your understanding.

All I told you is from the biblical texts unadulterated in any way, I always use clear teaching from Christ that need no interpretation. your lack of understanding is on you and you only.

 

[vassal]

Do it yourself salvation.

Who knew, we need to get a message to Christ Jesus and tell Him, His work, His life, His offering, His resurrection was all for naught.

Here you go, a clear teaching from Jesus our lord, please read carefully;

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler ( Matthew 19, NKJV)
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

The truth is here just read it and do as Jesus says, then you will have eternal life. these commandments, all ten of them that Jesus, son of God was teaching to the Jews and gentiles are the Covenant, old and new see jeremiah 31 for full definition of the new covenant it is the same but put in our hearts and soul by God;

The New Covenant
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm not speaking for whomever wrote what you responded to with this, but the increasingly Evangelical idea that we should be following the ten commandments seems to be rooted in the idea that such is the means by which they retain their salvation, which, if it were retained by works, then, as you pointed out, it also had to be earned by works if works of our efforts had anything at all to do with salvation. This is nothing more than the start of construction on the road to ecumenical blends with pagan gods.

There was a time that Evangelicals were vehemently opposed to the Roman Catholic concept of earned retention and gaining of salvation by any measure of self-effort. Through the decades I've been witnessing the increasing victory the Romish system of religion is winning over what's called "Protestantism," by way of the satanic compromises of ecumenicalism.

It's only going to get worse as see the Romish religion now embracing Islam and other pagan religions of the world, establishing prayer and worship center rooms within the Vatican for those who worship false gods. That amalgam blend of pagan religions is fast becoming just like that large tent Muhammed allegedly found holding hundreds of representative idols of many false gods, with him settling on the idolic symbol of the moon god now symbolized on their mosques and on their flags and broadcasts. The Vatican, through the wicked popes, is becoming the pagan worship center of the world with Western Roman Catholic bishops refusing to grow enough of a spine to speak out against this transportation into joining with the religions of the world.

MM

Interesting observation.

I was wondering the same, when I read that the RC church is changing some of its rhetoric on Mary and other tenets of the faith.

It seems there will be a "false state sponsored belief system" and perhaps a small remnant who protect the true message of the Gospel as we enter into what I see as a dark age.

When I think back to ten years ago, this message board was mostly dominated by people who rightly understood Ephesians 2:8-9 as the summit statement of salvation which means salvation is secure in Christ, now it is mostly "the salvation is not complete crowd I must add to it"

The answer to sin is not law it is grace, that seems to be something they cannot wrap their head around sadly.

 

[HeIsHere]

Here you go, a clear teaching from Jesus our lord, please read carefully;

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler ( Matthew 19, NKJV)
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good[a] Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? [c]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

The truth is here just read it and do as Jesus says, then you will have eternal life. these commandments, all ten of them that Jesus, son of God was teaching to the Jews and gentiles are the Covenant, old and new see jeremiah 31 for full definition of the new covenant it is the same but put in our hearts and soul by God;

The New Covenant
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Have you read the letters written to Galatians. All scripture must come together with one coherent message for all people.

You do understand that Jesus was talking to his own who were under the law and pointing to himself as the solution to everything that adherence to the law could not accomplish.