Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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OLDBUTNEW said:
@Magenta : But isn't it an example of free will, if we are able to decide to trust in JESUS?
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That's like saying you get to decide whether to believe something after you are already convinced of it by God. This
is the type of logic free willers employ. Logical fallacies do seem to be their strong suit, though they are not at all
convincing when stacked beside all the Scriptures the FWers try to negate. It is not the natural man who comes to
place their faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ our Lord for the remission of sins. The gospel message
is heard as foolishness to that person. They are blinded by the god of this world and are hostile in their minds toward
God, opposed to the spiritual things of God, and refuse, do you see what Scripture says? They REFUSE to come into
the light. That is the choice that person makes. Incurably wicked hearts are not going to grow the good fruit of faith.

John3-19-20-Psalm10-4s.png

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
 
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Spiritoftruth.png

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)
 
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1Corinthians2-14.png

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14
 
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Magenta said:
That's like saying you get to decide whether to believe something after you are already convinced of it by God. This
is the type of logic free willers employ. Logical fallacies do seem to be their strong suit, though they are not at all
convincing when stacked beside all the Scriptures the FWers try to negate. It is not the natural man who comes to
place their faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ our Lord for the remission of sins. The gospel message
is heard as foolishness to that person. They are blinded by the god of this world and are hostile in their minds toward
God, opposed to the spiritual things of God, and refuse, do you see what Scripture says? They REFUSE to come into
the light. That is the choice that person makes. Incurably wicked hearts are not going to grow the good fruit of faith.

John3-19-20-Psalm10-4s.png

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
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@Magenta : OK, thanks for this; I think I understand what you mean; I'll give it thought, and I'll read more of The Bible.
 
OLDBUTNEW said:
@Magenta : OK, thanks for this; I think I understand what you mean; I'll give it thought, and I'll read more of The Bible.
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Notice how none of those passages say nor implies that man is born that way or that God eternally decreed them to be in that state from birth or eternally decrees them to be in that state unconditionally. Again, you’d have to read that into the text and have to be taught that to get it from the text.
 
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OLDBUTNEW said:
@Magenta : OK, thanks for this; I think I understand what you mean; I'll give it thought, and I'll read more of The Bible.
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Keep in mind that they will never explain 2 Thessalonians 2:10 or Jonah 3 with any kind of rational explanation.
They simply cannot do it.

Then there is the moral dilemma in Calvinism. If God elects or chooses some to salvation based on no conditions (which is why it is called Unconditional Election), then why does God not simply elect or save everyone? If salvation is entirely forced and unilateral, then the obvious question becomes why God would not rescue all men when He has the power to do so.

These are impossible hurdles for them to overcome. If answers existed, they would have given satisfactory explanations for these things long ago. In fact, this is not my first rodeo with Calvinists. There are many verses they have never been able to explain, because from a Calvinist perspective they are unanswerable. The Bible simply does not teach Calvinism.



.....
 
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Bible_Highlighter said:
Keep in mind that they will never explain 2 Thessalonians 2:10 or Jonah 3 with any kind of rational explanation.
They simply cannot do it.

Then there is the moral dilemma in Calvinism. If God elects or chooses some to salvation based on no conditions (which is why it is called Unconditional Election), then why does God not simply elect or save everyone? If salvation is entirely forced and unilateral, then the obvious question becomes why God would not rescue all men when He has the power to do so.

These are impossible hurdles for them to overcome. If answers existed, they would have given satisfactory explanations for these things long ago. In fact, this is not my first rodeo with Calvinists. There are many verses they have never been able to explain, because from a Calvinist perspective they are unanswerable. The Bible simply does not teach Calvinism.



.....
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I think Jer. 7:31, 18:7-8 19:5, 32:35; 2 Tim. 2:21-22 are difficult for them as well.
 
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Man is born in transgression and sin. Romans 5:12 states that "sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned". There are none
good, none righteous, the natural man is a God-hater; first comes the natural, FWers tell us man is not
born this way? Too funny. They sure are. They must be born again. They certainly are not born that way.

John3-3-John1-13-James1-18-Romans8-9b1-Peter2-9.png

John 3 verse 3, John 1 verse 13, James 1 verse 18, Romans 8 verse 9b, 1 Peter 2 verse 9 ~ Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. You are chosen to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. My soul will exult in my God, for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness. Plus Isaiah 61 verse 10
 
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Bible_Highlighter said:
Then there is the moral dilemma in Calvinism. If God elects or chooses some to salvation based on no conditions (which is why it is called Unconditional Election), then why does God not simply elect or save everyone? If salvation is entirely forced and unilateral, then the obvious question becomes why God would not rescue all men when He has the power to do so.
.....
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Neither Calvinism nor the bible teach that God forces salvation on anybody. Becoming a Christian is likened by Jesus to a new birth. When a baby is born, nobody says, "He or she was forced to be born," The same is true of the new birth.
We are not told why God chose some for salvation. What we are told is that it was not man's will that caused it, but God's:

“11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (Joh 1:11-13 NKJV)
 
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DavidLamb said:
Neither Calvinism nor the bible teach that God forces salvation on anybody. Becoming a Christian is likened by Jesus to a new birth. When a baby is born, nobody says, "He or she was forced to be born," The same is true of the new birth.
We are not told why God chose some for salvation. What we are told is that it was not man's will that caused it, but God's:

“11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (Joh 1:11-13 NKJV)
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13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

Can anyone please explain verse 13?
 
Me_Clay said:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

Can anyone please explain verse 13?
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It means that God and God alone decided to save believers. Salvation does not occur because of racial descent, nor because men desire to be saved, neither because they decide they should be saved.

We are born of the Spirit (regeneration) when Christ baptizes us with the Spirit and we are made spiritually alive.
 
Blue155 said:
It was a she lol.
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Let me guess she never called you brainwashed because she was an atheist, she called you brain washed, because she was saying to you, your brain washed with stupidity for not believing in me. 🤐

And she needed a man who could float her boat, so it was then you called her an atheist
 
Rufus said:
Like you FWers can feel any humility? In your universe God is only a potential savior -- a possible savior whose "enabling" grace is totally ineffective. So...this belief system produces trust in the only thing that is efficacious in man's salvation, i.e. man's supposed "freewill". And therein is where your PRIDE lies -- in your own "freewill" choice that actually frees God up to save you.
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There is no pride in humility, repentance and trusting in another for salvation.
If you were so secure in your "TULIP" system you would never need to resort to this type of distortion.

It really is quite sad when this insecurity is evident over and over again and yet there you be.
 
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