Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blue155]

This isn't the contention. It's what you believe they are saying. Read Acts 2:23. Now ask yourself a question: who does this verse reveal is responsible for Jesus being crucified?

that is the contention. Calvinists just do not want to admit it because they know it is the contention. I have read and looked into that verse in Acts, and it doesn’t help Calvinism.

 

[sawdust]

But Calvinists attribute ordained to meaning eternally decreed all choices as if we are living in a movie where our entire lives are scripted, as if God is the Puppetmaster and we are nothing more than His puppets on strings.

There is imagination and there is reality. Both are valid but each in it's own place.

God gave us brains to tell the difference.

 

[Rufus]

lol. I could easily show where your main themes are wrong, but will it do any good? Probably not. Your explanations are unfounded, and when understood within the context, they don’t make a lick of sense. A 90 year old woman who is crippled that wants to climb Mount Everest makes more sense than your posts lol

Quit deceiving yourself. You cannot do it -- easily or the hard way! Honey would climb up Mt. Everest in the dead of winter before you would ever refute my interpretation in its context.

Let me ask you something: Would you agree that God's love for his chosen people is the greatest impetus for his gifts of grace to them?

 

[Blue155]

Let me say this…I’m well aware of the verses Calvinism uses (or I should say misuse) in the NT. Not a single one of them teach Calvinism. It is as if John Calvin is the authority lol…

 

[Blue155]

knowing people vs. knowing people's acts.

And neither prove Calvinism

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, it's an awesome passage when understood properly as God knowing people vs. knowing people's acts.

Do you think people are not known by their actions?

 

[BillyBob]

Did God eternally decree the fall?

Decree according to AI
In the Bible, a "decree" is a formal, authoritative command, pronouncement, or law from a sovereign power, most often God or a human ruler. It can refer to God's eternal plan and purposes, which are considered unchangeable and sovereign, or to human laws and edicts, like those issued by kings or emperors, which carry legal weight.

If you go by this AI definition, then yes God decreed the fall of man!
He created man with the ability to choose either right or wrong, knowing that he would choose to disobey.
In that sense, He did not cause Adam to disobey, but His plan was to allow him to disobey. After all, He is God and He can do as He wishes. If you think this is wrong, then take it up with Him!

 

[Cameron143]

that is the contention. Calvinists just do not want to admit it because they know it is the contention. I have read and looked into that verse in Acts, and it doesn’t help Calvinism.

Can you please answer the question.

The answer isn't pro or con for Calvinism. It's about how God can decree something and still have His will carried out by the choices of men. In other words, no need for a puppet master.

 

[Blue155]

Close by a country mile...but no cigar! Try Shakespeare instead:

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts...

This is God's world stage, and He has indeed written every actor's script, which every actor willingly plays! Great examples are Judas, Balaam, Pharaoh, Cyrus, etc. God is the playwright and producer of HIS redemptive story (operative term here is "HIS").

So, you agree with Calvinism by quoting Shakespeare, making what I say correct about Calvinism [by you quoting Shakespeare], while you say I’m not correct [about Calvinism]? Lol. You are correct about Calvinism being incorrect! Lol

 

[Blue155]

Decree according to AI
In the Bible, a "decree" is a formal, authoritative command, pronouncement, or law from a sovereign power, most often God or a human ruler. It can refer to God's eternal plan and purposes, which are considered unchangeable and sovereign, or to human laws and edicts, like those issued by kings or emperors, which carry legal weight.

If you go by this AI definition, then yes God decreed the fall of man!
He created man with the ability to choose either right or wrong, knowing that he would choose to disobey.
In that sense, He did not cause Adam to disobey, but His plan was to allow him to disobey. After all, He is God and He can do as He wishes. If you think this is wrong, then take it up with Him!

Do you accept the AI definition? Then that open up a whole other can of worms. Such as this…was God pleased with the fall that He eternally decreed?

 

[Jordon]

You don’t make a lick of sense. An old decrepit man who wants to try out for the NFL makes more sense than your posts lol

you keep stripping people of there faith by saying every word that they say is some twisted Calvinism theology.

That's not very nice and you wouldn't like it

This kind of treatment, your dishing it out, to innocent people, do you know people go running to victim support because of actions like this having there innocence attacked.

I dont suppose you know about people being scared to speak so much they run away into harms way.

To give you an indication my mum worked for the red cross and the Samaritans. Helping thousands of people trapped, also falling into the wrong hands and getting entangled in addiction.

What your doing is like a bailiff
Coming to your house taking all that you have and then the cops coming to your house and evicting you from your home.

You should care about this.

Magenta and Cameron are not even Calvinists neither am I

But not only this what your doing is promoting people to not accept his word.


Your not in the least bit clever, and you should not be using your own authority to crush Gods authoritative word, because that's what your doing.

His word is there for you to only have a relationship with God have a better relationship with yourself but others as well.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

you keep stripping people of there faith by saying every word that say is some twisted Calvinism theology.

That's not very nice and you wouldn't like it

This kind of treatment, your dishing it out, to innocent people, do you know people go running to victim support because of actions like this having there innocence attacked.

I dont suppose you know about people being scared to speak so much they run away into harms way.

To give you an indication my mum worked for the red cross and the Samaritans. Helping thousands of people trapped, also falling into the wrong hands and getting entangled in addiction.

What your doing is like a bailiff
Coming to your house taking all that you have and then the cops coming to your house and evicting you from your home.

You should care about this.

Magenta and Cameron are not even Calvinists neither am I

But not only this what your doing is promoting people to not accept his word.


Your not in the least bit clever, and you should not be using your own authority to crush Gods authoritative word, because that's what your doing.

His word is there for you to only have a relationship with God have a better relationship with yourself but others as well.

@Jordon : Mate, you don't think you're taking this a bit too seriously?!

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : Mate, you don't think you're taking this a bit too seriously?!

Aussie you just put your thumbs down again immediately at something very serious.

Dont push your luck mate

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Aussie you just put your thumbs down again immediately at something very serious.

Dont push your luck mate

@Jordon : You're funny! What will happen to me, if I do push my luck?!

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : You're funny! What will happen to me, if I do push my luck?!

well it will be a case of you losing all credibility with me.

And i will give you up like I would give a bad job up.

THATS CITED TO

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

well it will be a case of you losing all credibility with me.

And i will give you up like I would give a bad job up.

THATS CITED TO

@Jordon ; That's all right, mate! You carry on!!

 

[BillyBob]

Do you accept the AI definition? Then that open up a whole other can of worms. Such as this…was God pleased with the fall that He eternally decreed?

You must start with a definition of that which is being discussed so that everyone is speaking about the same thing. So, I will accept this definition if everyone else will do the same.
I do believe that God decreed the fall, otherwise it would not have happened. At the same time I must admit that I do not see all of God's works as He does. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. Someday It will be revealed, but not now.
Scripture tells us that all things are in God's hands, but it also tells us the He took no pleasure in it.
The fact that He is able to do both is a mystery to me, but I accept that both are true.

 

[Blue155]

Can you please answer the question.

The answer isn't pro or con for Calvinism. It's about how God can decree something and still have His will carried out by the choices of men. In other words, no need for a puppet master.

I’m trying to see if I understand your question. First, I agree there is no need for a puppet master. I also agree that God decreed the scheme of redemption, but not eternally decreed man’s choices, as eternally decreeing man’s choices, desires, motives, actions, etc etc would be having Him to eternally decree sin, which it sounds like we are both are in agreement that He did not, making the idea that God can and is still sovereign—as in having supreme authority without having to eternally decree all events, thoughts, desires, intentions, etc. This goes back to the chessboard analogy. God doesn’t have to determine both sides to get His will done. He’s that good. I say all this because, if you are saying man has free will and God is still and always sovereign without having to eternally decree all events, choices, decisions etc, then that has been what I have been saying all along. But if you are saying man has no free will, and God has eternally decreed all events, choices, etc, then that’s not what I’m saying at all.

Do I believe God decreed things? Absolutely.

Do I believe His decrees involve decreeing all of man’s choices, desires, thoughts and actions? No.

If you read my response and you come away thinking I believe Calvinism (even though you say your question wasn’t a pro or con for it) then you misunderstood what I said.

 

[Blue155]

you keep stripping people of there faith by saying every word that they say is some twisted Calvinism theology.

That's not very nice and you wouldn't like it

This kind of treatment, your dishing it out, to innocent people, do you know people go running to victim support because of actions like this having there innocence attacked.

I dont suppose you know about people being scared to speak so much they run away into harms way.

To give you an indication my mum worked for the red cross and the Samaritans. Helping thousands of people trapped, also falling into the wrong hands and getting entangled in addiction.

What your doing is like a bailiff
Coming to your house taking all that you have and then the cops coming to your house and evicting you from your home.

You should care about this.

Magenta and Cameron are not even Calvinists neither am I

But not only this what your doing is promoting people to not accept his word.


Your not in the least bit clever, and you should not be using your own authority to crush Gods authoritative word, because that's what your doing.

His word is there for you to only have a relationship with God have a better relationship with yourself but others as well.

don’t kid yourself. The majority of those who believe in Calvinism (despite them saying they do not) despise me

 

[Blue155]

You must start with a definition of that which is being discussed so that everyone is speaking about the same thing. So, I will accept this definition if everyone else will do the same.
I do believe that God decreed the fall, otherwise it would not have happened. At the same time I must admit that I do not see all of God's works as He does. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. Someday It will be revealed, but not now.
Scripture tells us that all things are in God's hands, but it also tells us the He took no pleasure in it.
The fact that He is able to do both is a mystery to me, but I accept that both are true.

Ok. Thanks for the response.