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Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View
- Thread starter LightBearer316
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Make up fancy sounding phrases to appear like you know what you're talking about
Internet search:
No results found for "silent inclusion" argument
@studier
Which came first — the chicken or the egg?
Faith = obedience? Or obedience = faith, which then supposedly shows itself in baptism?
At this point, it’s just theological word gymnastics. Paul didn’t write “to him that obeyeth,” he wrote “to him that believeth.” (Romans 4:5 KJV)
Faith produces obedience — it’s not identical to it. Otherwise, you’ve erased grace and turned belief itself into a work.
You can’t call it grace if it has to earn its way through obedience.
Paul consistently separates faith (trust in God’s promise) from works or obedient acts as the basis of justification.
I would recommend everyone just put Studier on ignore!
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
Which came first — the chicken or the egg?
Faith = obedience? Or obedience = faith, which then supposedly shows itself in baptism?
At this point, it’s just theological word gymnastics. Paul didn’t write “to him that obeyeth,” he wrote “to him that believeth.” (Romans 4:5 KJV)
Faith produces obedience — it’s not identical to it. Otherwise, you’ve erased grace and turned belief itself into a work.
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” — Romans 11:6 KJV
You can’t call it grace if it has to earn its way through obedience.
Paul consistently separates faith (trust in God’s promise) from works or obedient acts as the basis of justification.
- Romans 4:5 (KJV): “To him that worketh not, but believeth…”
>>> Faith is the channel of grace, not the action that earns it. - Galatians 2:16 (KJV): “Not by the works of the law… but by the faith of Jesus Christ.”
Faith >>> justification >>> obedience as fruit.
Not: obedience >>> justification.
I would recommend everyone just put Studier on ignore!
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
You're right it's not a work to earn salvation. Neither is water baptism. But both are required.
@ChristRoseFromTheDead
You can Google all you want — “silent inclusion” isn’t a formal label, it’s a descriptive shorthand for a well-known fallacy: argument from silence (appealing to what isn’t stated as if it were implied). Benefits of a classical education, grasshopper.
In other words, it’s when someone claims something must be part of a text or process even though it’s never mentioned — they “silently include” it.
That’s exactly what’s happening here:
Assuming baptism or obedience is inherently understood in passages that explicitly mention faith alone.
Call it what you want — the logic’s still bad.
If Scripture doesn’t say it, you don’t get to smuggle it in “silently.”
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
You just contradicted yourself, grasshopper.
If something is required in order to obtain salvation, it is a work by definition — a human condition placed on grace.
Paul already addressed that:
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” — Romans 11:6 KJV
Faith’s confession is the evidence of salvation, not the entry fee for it.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
If it was well known it would be on the internet. It's not, ergo it's not well known. Is it well known at Calvin University? Or is it something you found in Logos software?
Yes, that is how work is defined in the Calvignostic Dictionary. It's origin extends back to the Valentinian gnostics in the 2nd century AD
You are now trying to deflect with sarcasm because I cornered you logically. My clarification about “silent inclusion” as shorthand for argument from silence was airtight — so now you are retreating into mockery (“if it was well known it’d be on the internet”) to save face.
That’s a tactical dodge, not a substantive rebuttal. You can’t refute my point, so you are shifting to tone and credibility — classic argumentum ad ridicule.
@ChristRoseFromTheDead :
It’s fine if you hadn’t heard the term before — it’s descriptive, not proprietary.
Whether you call it argument from silence, implicit assumption, or silent inclusion, it’s the same logical flaw: reading something into a text that isn’t actually there.
If your theology depends on what’s implied but never stated, you’ve already lost the argument.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
@ChristRoseFromTheDead
Ah yes, when you can’t refute Paul’s logic, just invent a new dictionary. Try again, grasshopper.
Romans 4:5 and 11:6 define “works” long before Calvin ever did — and neither of them were Gnostics.
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth…” — Romans 4:5 KJV
“If by grace, then is it no more of works…” — Romans 11:6 KJV
Grace doesn’t share the stage — not with obedience, not with ritual, and definitely not with revisionist history.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
You really have no clue what the bible is about. Obedience to God's voice is the pre-eminent theme of the entire bible
@ChristRoseFromTheDead
No disagreement that obedience matters — it’s the fruit of faith, not the faucet that turns grace on.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.” — Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
“We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” — Ephesians 2:10 KJV
Paul separates cause and result for a reason.
Grace saves >>> obedience follows. Reverse that order, and grace is no longer grace, grasshopper. (Romans 11:6 KJV)
Romans 11:6 (KJV) — “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
@ChristRoseFromTheDead
I actually do — and unlike you, I back every point I make with Scripture, not assumptions.
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” — Romans 11:6 KJV
“For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast.” — Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV
The Bible defines the basis of salvation as grace through faith, not obedience as a condition for it.
Obedience matters — but it’s the fruit of grace, not the price of it.
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
A little upset again.
Please do put me on ignore - it'll be easier to just refute you without using time and effort interacting with you.
So, first you misrepresented scholarly resources to try to push an erroneous meaning of "eis" in order to change what's said in Acts2:38 so baptism doesn't conflict with your faith-alone system. I did the work to show that misrepresentation about Greek grammar because you would not do the work to prove what you said, after repeated requests to do so.
Now, you've repeated that same type of misrepresentation of scholarly resources re: Rom1:5 and I've done the work to prove that one of those resources in fact and once again does not support you or your effort to support your faith-alone system.
You also ignore and/or try to refute very basic grammar and logic in favor of inserting - eisegeting - a modifier into the Text to misrepresent and limit genuine faith to fit a theological system. @TrustandObey sums this up about the faith-alone system much better and more succinctly than I do.
BTW, when you're more relaxed, please reread your post and realize how much you've attempted to present yourself as scholarly and you're now condemning me for interacting with you accordingly.
As you say, Grace and Peace.
So, salvation by faith + your personal definition of non-meritorious works? That is still salvation by faith + works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.
Not at all — grace isn’t a substance, grasshopper, it’s God’s favor.
The point of the metaphor (“not the faucet that turns grace on”) was about cause and effect, not essence.
Scripture defines grace as God’s unmerited favor (Romans 11:6 KJV; Titus 2:11 KJV), not a material force or impersonal flow. The Gnostics divorced grace from the person of Christ — the Bible centers it in Him (John 1:17 KJV).
Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture verses!
Well, if you and other control salvation by water Baptism in Jesus name only, I believe that is a very valid question I have asked. If changing how you live without The Spirit of God providing power to live victories and allowing the word of God to transform one's mind by the word of GOD, then that is an act of the individual and their own righteousness getting it done. It seems some here want to remove the work of GRACE that saved us. Through faith.
John says simultaneous - via logical parallelism:
Premise 1: God commands men to believe in the name of His Son. (1 John 3:23)
Premise 2: Believing in the name of the Son is obedience to God’s command.
Conclusion: Therefore, believing in the name of the Son is obedience to God.
Paul essentially tells us the same thing - via grammatical parallelism:
Premise 1 / Clause 1: Some did not obey the gospel.
Premise 2 / Clause 2: Not believing in Christ explains not obeying the gospel (parallel explanatory clause beginning with "gar)
Conclusion: Therefore, unbelief and disobedience are simultaneously the same reality, expressed in explanatory parallel.
And this is all mutually substantiated by the appositional relationship of faith and obedience in Rom1:5 as favored by studier & Cranfield as referenced in the work by Wallace in the NET Bible Notes (as previously posted in this thread).
-"And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:15-16 NKJV
-"Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:3, 5 NKJV
-"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."" Acts 2:38-39 NKJV
Mark 16:15-16 NKJV
-"Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
John 3:3, 5 NKJV
-"Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."" Acts 2:38-39 NKJV