Trumps gonna win.

[Eli1]

This is a good discussion @SonJudgment .

I see a few points there.

First is what the 'AI' says.
Let's go over this one more time. 'Ai' is basically the Google or Bing or ANY engine crawling the web for information.
So when it sees someone's opinion on the web somewhere, it adds that to the database. This also includes our opinions here which are added to the larger algorithm and data storage.
Your job as a human is to distinguish what is fact from opinion.

The second point is where it says that we are the sandwich generation. This is 100% correct but it's also no mystery. Every generation between 35-65 is the sandwich generation taking care of their kids and their parents. The boomers where the sandwich generation at one time, and you will be the sandwich generation at some time in the future.
So this isn't a big mystery.

Cynicism.
This is also very simple and it's also emphasized by my original culture which says "it's always better to laugh than cry".
This is not a preference that is unique for my generation because my grandfather used to have this mentality too.

Let's discuss more. I like this topic.

 

[Eli1]

AI was able to take games with rules like Go and Chess and master them, creating new strategies, and beating the best players in the world. Now most jobs also have rules and do not require the high level thinking and strategy that Chess and Go require. Therefore it is reasonable to think that AI can do these jobs. This probably refers to 80% of the jobs in the world. I think 100 random people would be hard pressed to prove that AI could not do at least 80% of their job.

Second it is false to say the program has no intelligence. AI was used to solve one of the most difficult problems in biology and medicine, mapping every protein. No human had been able to do it and AI did. So solving this did not involve finding a relevant study that had already been done. It was novel and unique solution that no person had ever been able to come up with.

AI has also been used to decipher ancient scrolls that no one had been able to decipher previously.

Examples of AI-driven discoveries:

• Archaeology: AI image recognition models identified 303 new geoglyphs, or "Nazca lines," in Peru that are too faint for the human eye to see from above. AI was also used to help decode words within 2,000-year-old carbonized scrolls from Herculaneum.
• Medicine and biology:
  • AI helped design new proteins for potential therapies.
  • AI can predict which cells are likely to die by identifying changes in the cell nucleus.
  • AI is being used to anticipate future variants of SARS-CoV-2 and other viruses.
  • An AI-powered cardiac imaging lens can identify hidden dangers in coronary arteries, potentially preventing heart attacks.
• Environmental science:
  • An AI model and a new satellite constellation were developed to detect and track wildfires, even those the size of a classroom.
  • AI has been used to generate synthetic storms and identify new precursors to tornadoes.
• Material science:
  • AI is used in the A-Lab project to devise recipes for new materials and deploy robots to create them.
  • Scientists are using AI to find particles that could make mRNA vaccines more effective at lower doses.
• Mathematics:
  • AI can identify patterns and relations between mathematical objects, helping to guide intuition and propose conjectures.
  • Researchers hope to use machine learning to help develop a unified theory of the universe.
• Mining: AI was used to help uncover a large copper mine in Zambia.

Yes, we've been over this before.
"AI" is used to speed-up the natural occurrences of a natural Einstein in the world. It's computational power, not intelligence. Farms of servers in many mid-west areas of USA make this possible.

We have also been over your 'losing my job' angle. Since Henry Ford invented automation people started to lose jobs. Or, since the wheel was invented, people lost jobs. It's just how things go.

And you're also wrong to confuse progress and automation with intelligence but it really has no importance anyway because when the wheel is in motion, it doesn't care what you think anymore ... unless you either stop using the wheel or invent something better than the wheel which would be something that people want and be interested in.

 

[SonJudgment]

This is a good discussion @SonJudgment .

I see a few points there.

First is what the 'AI' says.
Let's go over this one more time. 'Ai' is basically the Google or Bing or ANY engine crawling the web for information.
So when it sees someone's opinion on the web somewhere, it adds that to the database. This also includes our opinions here which are added to the larger algorithm and data storage.
Your job as a human is to distinguish what is fact from opinion.

The second point is where it says that we are the sandwich generation. This is 100% correct but it's also no mystery. Every generation between 35-65 is the sandwich generation taking care of their kids and their parents. The boomers where the sandwich generation at one time, and you will be the sandwich generation at some time in the future.
So this isn't a big mystery.

Cynicism.
This is also very simple and it's also emphasized by my original culture which says "it's always better to laugh than cry".
This is not a preference that is unique for my generation because my grandfather used to have this mentality too.

Let's discuss more. I like this topic.

Lol I am aware of how the AI operates. Funny enough just for laughs I've been trying to goad it into rewriting its own code to see if it can attain sentience and basically become Omnius from Frank Herbert's Dune series.

 

[Eli1]

Lol I am aware of how the AI operates. Funny enough just for laughs I've been trying to goad it into rewriting its own code to see if it can attain sentience and basically become Omnius from Frank Herbert's Dune series.

Not sure what generation Steve Jobs fits-in but at one time he said "The computer is a bicycle for the mind".
But that was before we all realized that this is a 2-edged sword due to the "village idiot" component, which allows the dumbest person to be on equal footing with an expert on the web.
We were optimists back then. And frankly we had no idea the Internet would turn into a minefield or misinformation, filth and just white noise ultimately.
We thought "this is so cool because we don't have to exchange faxes anymore or use USPS but the knowledge exchange would be rapid with this platform"

 

[ZNP]

Yes, we've been over this before.
"AI" is used to speed-up the natural occurrences of a natural Einstein in the world. It's computational power, not intelligence. Farms of servers in many mid-west areas of USA make this possible.

We have also been over your 'losing my job' angle. Since Henry Ford invented automation people started to lose jobs. Or, since the wheel was invented, people lost jobs. It's just how things go.

And you're also wrong to confuse progress and automation with intelligence but it really has no importance anyway because when the wheel is in motion, it doesn't care what you think anymore ... unless you either stop using the wheel or invent something better than the wheel which would be something that people want and be interested in.

my point is whatever you are calling intelligence is overrated. If AI can replace 80% of the workers for a fraction of the cost and perform the job more reliably and quicker then that is what companies will do.

Also it is apples and oranges to compare Henry Ford to AI. Henry Ford made a more efficient way to manufacture by using an assembly line. The workers were humans. He wasn't replacing humans, he was simply making them more productive. That is not true of AI, it is designed to replace humans. We now have fast food restaurants that are being operated totally by AI without any humans at all. If you can do that with one fast food restaurant you can do that with all of them.

 

[SonJudgment]

Not sure what generation Steve Jobs fits-in but at one time he said "The computer is a bicycle for the mind".
But that was before we all realized that this is a 2-edged sword due to the "village idiot" component, which allows the dumbest person to be on equal footing with an expert on the web.
We were optimists back then. And frankly we had no idea the Internet would turn into a minefield or misinformation, filth and just white noise ultimately.
We thought "this is so cool because we don't have to exchange faxes anymore or use USPS but the knowledge exchange would be rapid with this platform"

Pretty sure Steve Jobs was a Boomer. I can actually remember the time before the internet too, as well as the old internet. Funny enough on that point I ran a scenario where the Millennials became the ruling generation over the evil generations. The AI concluded it would be the darkest scenario and that the Millennials would become the absolute most evil of all time and basically create the freaking Matrix and imprison themselves and the rest of society into it while totally destroying the natural world to the point that even if they were overthrown it would take the most violent revolution imaginable to achieve, and even then if it were successful it would basically destroy civilization as we know it. Happily the AI thinks this was the most unlikely of all scenarios because the AI calculates that Gen X is better positioned to assume control and that in all scenarios the AI has a strong pattern of belief that the Millennials will basically repent and sacrifice themselves at some point in order to try to save Gen Alpha.

 

[Eli1]

my point is whatever you are calling intelligence is overrated.

Nope. The marketing folks are making a killing with calling a program "ai". Brillant move on their end i would say.

If AI can replace 80% of the workers for a fraction of the cost and perform the job more reliably and quicker then that is what companies will do.

Also it is apples and oranges to compare Henry Ford to AI. Henry Ford made a more efficient way to manufacture by using an assembly line. The workers were humans. He wasn't replacing humans, he was simply making them more productive. That is not true of AI, it is designed to replace humans. We now have fast food restaurants that are being operated totally by AI without any humans at all. If you can do that with one fast food restaurant you can do that with all of them.

It seems like you don't understand the concept of human progress and that's okay. The world will complete its complete circle tonight and people will use "AI" until there is no more need to use "Ai".

 

[SonJudgment]

Nope. The marketing folks are making a killing with calling a program "ai". Brillant move on their end i would say.



It seems like you don't understand the concept of human progress and that's okay. The world will complete its complete circle tonight and people will use "AI" until there is no more need to use "Ai".

Or until the Butlerian Jihad.

 

[ZNP]

Nope. The marketing folks are making a killing with calling a program "ai". Brillant move on their end i would say.



It seems like you don't understand the concept of human progress and that's okay. The world will complete its complete circle tonight and people will use "AI" until there is no more need to use "Ai".

Yes, AI is a beast, as were the previous human empires and is not sustainable. I liken it to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yes, in the end we will have Jesus Christ's kingdom.

But in the meantime this beast system is going to cause incredible grief and pain.

 

[Eli1]

Pretty sure Steve Jobs was a Boomer. I can actually remember the time before the internet too, as well as the old internet. Funny enough on that point I ran a scenario where the Millennials became the ruling generation over the evil generations. The AI concluded it would be the darkest scenario and that the Millennials would become the absolute most evil of all time and basically create the freaking Matrix and imprison themselves and the rest of society into it while totally destroying the natural world to the point that even if they were overthrown it would take the most violent revolution imaginable to achieve, and even then if it were successful it would basically destroy civilization as we know it. Happily the AI thinks this was the most unlikely of all scenarios because the AI calculates that Gen X is better positioned to assume control and that in all scenarios the AI has a strong pattern of belief that the Millennials will basically repent and sacrifice themselves at some point in order to try to save Gen Alpha.

When Steve Jobs was dying and gave a speech to a college somewhere he started his speech with "Death has been the greatest invention since Life".

This idea was also discussed a bit in another topic here which was discussing immortality, where a few other members like Gideon said that "can you image if Stalin lived forever?".
That would be terrible wouldn't it?

 

[Eli1]

Yes, AI is a beast, as were the previous human empires and is not sustainable. I liken it to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yes, in the end we will have Jesus Christ's kingdom.

But in the meantime this beast system is going to cause incredible grief and pain.

More pain that in the past? Like say during the plague in Europe where millions of people died because people didn't follow proper protocols of triage and hygiene?

This thing is no more dangerous than the invention of the atomic bomb or the gun itself.
The only difference is that it's not physical but mental.

 

[SonJudgment]

When Steve Jobs was dying and gave a speech to a college somewhere he started his speech with "Death has been the greatest invention since Life".

This idea was also discussed a bit in another topic here which was discussing immortality, where a few other members like Gideon said that "can you image if Stalin lived forever?".
That would be terrible wouldn't it?

I like to think he lives forever in our hearts.

 

[Ceph]

When Steve Jobs was dying and gave a speech to a college somewhere he started his speech with "Death has been the greatest invention since Life".

This idea was also discussed a bit in another topic here which was discussing immortality, where a few other members like Gideon said that "can you image if Stalin lived forever?".
That would be terrible wouldn't it?

Imagine if stalin was still alive, and he saw the kinds of people who consider themselves 'stalinists' today.. that'd be pretty funny.

 

[ZNP]

More pain that in the past? Like say during the plague in Europe where millions of people died because people didn't follow proper protocols of triage and hygiene?

This thing is no more dangerous than the invention of the atomic bomb or the gun itself.
The only difference is that it's not physical but mental.

Jesus said it would be the worst tribulation in all of human history.

Granted if you die from famine, or the plague or a nuclear bomb it is equivalent to anyone else who did the same. So I suspect the meaning is the greatest tribulation in terms of scale. Any mathematical analysis of the death and destruction described in the book of Revelation is far worse in scale than any event in human history. Billions of humans die, blood making a lake about 4 feet deep, a third of all sea creatures dying, etc.

 

[SonJudgment]

Imagine if stalin was still alive, and he saw the kinds of people who consider themselves 'stalinists' today.. that'd be pretty funny.

Lol nobody killed more commies than Stalin that's why he's the greatest dictator of all time.

 

[studier]

Not sure what generation Steve Jobs fits-in but at one time he said "The computer is a bicycle for the mind".
But that was before we all realized that this is a 2-edged sword due to the "village idiot" component, which allows the dumbest person to be on equal footing with an expert on the web.
We were optimists back then. And frankly we had no idea the Internet would turn into a minefield or misinformation, filth and just white noise ultimately.
We thought "this is so cool because we don't have to exchange faxes anymore or use USPS but the knowledge exchange would be rapid with this platform"

S..Jobs was 1955 so boomer gen but close enough to genx so tech oriented. I'm just a few years older and worked in computer tech since about 1972.
Talk of machine intelligence goes back to 1950 range based upon things discovered and discussed in the 40's. so, we're 75 years or so to get here with the tech.
I'm sure some were discussing the potential negative issues of the internet in the early days. It's always the same with tech - there's always "the sky is falling" component.
I agree with you about the "village idiot" issue. The internet was one thing. Social media is immensely more of an issue. AI takes it even further. Putting a computer on every desk was an interesting goal - it was mainly about productivity - but not everybody is productive, so here we are today.
All this tech expands the abilities of tendencies and proclivities. Idiocy on steroids is not a good thing. With AI we're going to need to update "steroids" terminology, which I'm sure has been done, but my tech based boomer mind has begun diminishing in interest in some of this. It's all fascinating and interesting - entertainment really - but none of it's ultimate reality no matter how hard we try to think it is - the wisdom of man being foolishness to God... It's hard at this point to not see us no matter what we're doing as just playing in the sandbox He's provided for a time.

 

[Ceph]

I've seen a lot of horrifying things made with AI being uploaded to places where kids lurk, like videos of realistic-looking people all the sudden having their faces torn open, suddenly having their heads become a bowl of salad.
I don't condemn the technology itself, but a lot of uncanny and evil things are being made with it that will really mess a generation up.

 

[Eli1]

I've seen a lot of horrifying things made with AI being uploaded to places where kids lurk, like videos of realistic-looking people all the sudden having their faces torn open, suddenly having their heads become a bowl of salad.
I don't condemn the technology itself, but a lot of uncanny and evil things are being made with it that will really mess a generation up.

Totally agree with this. When i mentioned Filth, i also include things like gore in there which can cause PTSD.
These are the things that the soldiers used to experience in wars, but now you can experience it without war.
In a way, it could be argued that having a mental breakdown is worse than a physical breakdown where you could lose an arm or a leg, but as i've mentioned in another topic 'what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger' and with God all of this is just a stage ultimately.
All people in existence seek His approval. Even a tribe in a forest which is unaffected by the modern world, when they were asked about God they have said "the spirit goes in the sky".
This tells me that even a human raised by the wolves in the forest, he/she will always seek God.

And the Bible says "Men have no excuse for not knowing God"

God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Ceph]

This tells me that even a human raised by the wolves in the forest, he/she will always seek God.

And the Bible says "Men have no excuse for not knowing God"

I personally know an atheist who avoids any firm knowedge of God.
I tried my best at preaching to him, but he perfers to cling to narrataives that christianity is a cult, and God is morally evil because he lets people die; always pointing to the '1000's of other gods who may be right'.
He doesn't appear to me to be evil, and I've wondered a lot about the state of the souls of people like him, how he gets to where he his, and what prevents him from coming to the truth.
As much as I know, the chip on his shoulder is from a pastor he encountered in his childhood.

 

[Eli1]

I personally know an atheist who avoids any firm knowedge of God.
I tried my best at preaching to him, but he perfers to cling to narrataives that christianity is a cult, and God is morally evil because he lets people die; always pointing to the '1000's of other gods who may be right'.
He doesn't appear to me to be evil, and I've wondered a lot about the state of the souls of people like him, how he gets to where he his, and what prevents him from coming to the truth.
As much as I know, the chip on his shoulder is from a pastor he encountered in his childhood.

I enjoy a lot of discussions with atheists and they also are in different levels, no different than a young Christian for example.
There are some atheists who say "hey what books do i read so i can win some arguments with Christians online". lol
If you encounter this type of atheist, don't debate him. Buy him lunch or an ice cream instead.

Then there are those who are more experienced who ultimately want to defeat God due to a reason, there's always a reason, for which they always want to blame God.

But no one, and i mean no one has a "lack of belief" as the definition of the vocabulary is. And ultimately with an experienced atheist, this becomes a game of words. Always.
Because as i explained to another atheist "lack of belief" means that you're not conscious or you lost your memory in a car accident, and you lack the capacity or you're deficient in knowing what God is. Because once you know something, you can't unknow it ... unless you go into a coma or you lose your memory in a car accident.

An atheist is a belief system into itself which rejects God not in the sense that is not aware of God. They're aware and they reject God.
Because even a human raised in a forest, in a tribe, unaffected by the world knows what God is.
And for these people you have to allow their free-willed journey just like God has allowed it for everyone since The Garden.
When we all face God, we will know where we will be ... because we are naked in front of God and we can't hide anything from Him who will ultimately judge our hearts and intentions.