Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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LightBearer316 said:
That’s close, but Scripture makes it clear that salvation starts with faith, not with any outward act. Obedience follows because we’re saved, not so we can be saved. Baptism is the fruit of belief — not the root of it.
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No, obedience is the fruit of faith, not salvation, and, yes, baptism is the fruit of faith.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Faith is inward and baptism is the outward expression of that faith. Those people in Acts 10 were immediately baptized
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Exactly — and that timing actually proves faith came first. They received the Holy Spirit before baptism, which shows God had already accepted them. Baptism followed as confirmation, not as the cause.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Faith is inward and baptism is the outward expression of that faith. Those people in Acts 10 were immediately baptized
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Baptism is the outward expression of the inward transformation that already took place at faith. Those people in Acts 10 believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Justification is only the first step. Justification alone doesn't save.
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Justification is salvation’s beginning, but it’s also complete in Christ — not a halfway point. Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.” You can’t have peace with God and still be unsaved.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Abraham was justified by faith at the age of 75. But that justification by itself wouldn't have saved him. He needed a people through whom the messiah would come. And that people was created by God through the covenant of circumcision. So at the age of 99 Abraham obeyed God, and thus ensured his salvation
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But Genesis 15:6 says Abraham “believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” His obedience in circumcision came after he was already justified — as a sign, not the source, of that righteousness (Romans 4:9–11).

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Noah was justified by his faith, but that justification by itself wouldn't have saved him. He needed a boat through which his progeny could survive the flood, through whom the messiah would come. So Noah obeyed God by building the ark, and thus ensured his salvation
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Noah’s faith was what saved him — the ark was simply the result of that faith in action (Hebrews 11:7). Faith obeys; it doesn’t need works added to make it real.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No they don't because it's explicitly stated eleswhere. Just because it's not explicitly stated every time doesn't mean exclusion. That's the specious reasoning of work-phobic salvationists
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You are in error and confusing context with omission — Scripture doesn’t need to restate baptism every time faith is mentioned to prove salvation. Romans 4 and Ephesians 2 already make it clear: salvation is by grace through faith, not of works.

Paul already settled it — we’re saved by grace through faith, not by any act we perform.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
TrustandObey said:
There is no point in Jesus adding "water" into this passage if the water simply symbolizes salvation.

As a believer in faith alone regeneration theology you are forced into this thinking.

If believing is the only thing needed for salvation then the verbiage used in Mark 16:16 is wrong.
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Jesus often used symbols to explain spiritual truth — “living water” in John 4 wasn’t literal either. Mark 16:16 KJV affirms belief saves; unbelief condemns.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
TrustandObey said:
This has always been the MO of mailmandan.

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Where is belief?
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James was writing to believers—faith is assumed. He’s describing the fruit of faith, not the means of salvation.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
No it's not what scripture consistently shows. Acts 10 was an exception to the rule that God used to inform Peter that he had accepted the gentiles. Otherwise Peter would not have baptized them
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But Acts 10 proves the rule, not an exception—Peter said they’d already received the Spirit before baptism, showing faith came first.

By Faith, Not by Water

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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@ChristRoseFromTheDead is trying to blur the line between faith and works — shifting salvation from trusting in Christ’s finished work to performing acts of obedience.

By redefining obedience as the means of salvation instead of the evidence of it, they merge grace and works. It’s the same old faith-plus-something formula: grace + water, grace + obedience, grace + ritual.

Basically, he is undermining Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV — turning “not of works” into “because of works.”

He distorts it just enough to shift the focus from Christ’s finished work to human effort.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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LightBearer316 said:
By redefining obedience as the means of salvation instead of the evidence of it, they merge grace and works. It’s the same old faith-plus-something formula: grace + water, grace + obedience, grace + ritual.
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You're speciously reframing what I've said to try to establlsh your idea. I've said obedience is the evidence of faith, but you reframe that into a work devoid of faith to push your idea that obedience is the evidence of salvation, which is just ridiculous. Hearkening to what God says is out of faith, not salvation.
 
LightBearer316 said:
ou are in error and confusing context with omission — Scripture doesn’t need to restate baptism every time faith is mentioned to prove salvation. Romans 4 and Ephesians 2 already make it clear: salvation is by grace through faith, not of works.

Paul already settled it — we’re saved by grace through faith, not by any act we perform.
Click to expand...

Faith that doesn't obey God isn"t faith; it's just mental assent. Grace doesn't preclude works of faith, but work-phobic salvationists poison the well by clumping them together with works of the flesh.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You're speciously reframing what I've said to try to establlsh your idea. I've said obedience is the evidence of faith, but you reframe that into a work devoid of faith to push your idea that obedience is the evidence of salvation, which is just ridiculous. Hearkening to what God says is out of faith, not salvation.
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That’s just word-shuffling. Scripture’s clear — faith produces obedience, but it’s faith that saves (Romans 5:1 KJV). Works follow; they don’t initiate salvation.


Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Exceptions to the rule don't disprove the rule. Basic logic.
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Acts 10 wasn’t an exception—it revealed the pattern. The Spirit came upon believers before baptism, proving salvation comes by faith alone.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Faith that doesn't obey God isn"t faith; it's just mental assent. Grace doesn't preclude works of faith, but work-phobic salvationists poison the well by clumping them together with works of the flesh.
Click to expand...
Obedience flows from faith—it’s the fruit, not the root. Grace saves; obedience proves it (Romans 1:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV ).

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
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