Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[LightBearer316]

This is like saying Naamam the Syrian whom Elisha told to go immerse himself in the Jordan 7 times was healed by his faith, not by the physical act of washing in water. Without physically immersing in water in obedience to Elisha's word Naamam wouldn't have been healed. Faith and obedience to God's word are inseparable. But disobedient people with work-phobia look for excuses to not obey God because they think he should do everything and them do nothing.

Naaman thought he would be healed by faith alone and was furious when Elisha told him to go do something he thought was insignificant. But unlike you he was amenable to correction from his servant, obeyed the word of Elisha and was healed.

So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean. But Naaman was wroth, and went away, and said, Behold, I thought, He will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the LORD his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper. [Are] not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not wash in them, and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage. And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, [if] the prophet had bid thee [do some] great thing, wouldest thou not have done [it]? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean? Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. 2 Kings 5:9-14​

Naaman’s story is a good one, but it doesn’t prove salvation comes through water — it shows faith expressed through obedience. He trusted God’s word, and the act of washing only mattered because he already believed. The same pattern runs through the New Testament: faith brings new life, and obedience follows as its fruit, not its cause.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[mailmandan]

Water and Spirit aren’t two separate requirements for salvation—they describe one spiritual birth. The Spirit is the agent, and the “water” symbolizes cleansing and renewal, not a ritual. Salvation rests in faith in Christ’s finished work, not the physical act of baptism.

Grace and Peace

Amen! Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10 and connects it with everlasting life in John 4:14. Also, in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. *Notice the word drink(s) in John 4:10,14 and in 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read drink into one Spirit.

We also see that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

 

[LightBearer316]

Amen! Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10 and connects it with everlasting life in John 4:14. Also, in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. *Notice the word drink(s) in John 4:10,14 and in 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read drink into one Spirit.

We also see that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

Exactly — “living water” consistently points back to the Spirit, not a physical ritual. The context in John 3 fits perfectly with John 4 and 7 — Jesus was describing a new birth that comes from above, not from below. The cleansing He offers is inward, not ceremonial.

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

 

[mailmandan]

Naaman’s story is a good one, but it doesn’t prove salvation comes through water — it shows faith expressed through obedience. He trusted God’s word, and the act of washing only mattered because he already believed. The same pattern runs through the New Testament: faith brings new life, and obedience follows as its fruit, not its cause.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

I often hear water-salvationists use the example of Naaman being healed from leprosy in the Jordan river after dipping 7 times then try to parallel that with folks being healed from their sins in water baptism, but that argument is flawed. Now if being healed from leprosy in water is an example of being healed from sins in baptism, then we have another case of someone with leprosy being healed that reveals one can be saved without any water. *No water is found here.

Luke 5:12 And it happened when He was in a certain city, that behold, a man who was full of leprosy saw Jesus; and he fell on his face and implored Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. 14 And He charged him to tell no one, “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as a testimony to them, just as Moses commanded.”

Now at first Naaman was offended by the command and turned away in anger. He exclaims, "Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be cleansed?" (2 Kings 5:12). Naaman's servants, however, intervene and urge him to reconsider: "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'?" (2 Kings 5:13).

Convinced by their reasoning, Naaman obeys the prophet's command. He immerses himself in the Jordan River seven times, and he is healed from leprosy. This miraculous healing not only cleanses Naaman physically but also led him to acknowledge the God of Israel: "Now I know that there is no God in all the earth except in Israel" and vowed to worship Him only. (2 Kings 5:15-17) Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.

The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the sovereignty of God and not of salvation by being immersed in H20. Naaman was a heathen and was not ready to worship God until after the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by H20 but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out. (2 Kings 5:15)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Naaman’s story is a good one, but it doesn’t prove salvation comes through water — it shows faith expressed through obedience. He trusted God’s word, and the act of washing only mattered because he already believed. The same pattern runs through the New Testament: faith brings new life, and obedience follows as its fruit, not its cause.

Faith and obedience are inseparable because a living faith is expressed through obedience to God's word. Obedience is the fruit of faith, not the fruit of a new life. Faith alone is disobedience in essence and doesn't produce new life, or healing as in Naaman's case.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I often hear water-salvationists use the example of Naaman being healed from leprosy in the Jordan river after dipping 7 times then try to parallel that with folks being healed from their sins in water baptism, but that argument is flawed. Now if being healed from leprosy in water is an example of being healed from sins in baptism, then we have another case of someone with leprosy being healed that reveals one can be saved without any water. *No water is found here.

Luke 5:12 And it happened when He was in a certain city, that behold, a man who was full of leprosy saw Jesus; and he fell on his face and implored Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. 14 And He charged him to tell no one, “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as a testimony to them, just as Moses commanded.”

Now at first Naaman was offended by the command and turned away in anger. He exclaims, "Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be cleansed?" (2 Kings 5:12). Naaman's servants, however, intervene and urge him to reconsider: "My father, if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he tells you, 'Wash and be cleansed'?" (2 Kings 5:13).

Convinced by their reasoning, Naaman obeys the prophet's command. He immerses himself in the Jordan River seven times, and he is healed from leprosy. This miraculous healing not only cleanses Naaman physically but also led him to acknowledge the God of Israel: "Now I know that there is no God in all the earth except in Israel" and vowed to worship Him only. (2 Kings 5:15-17) Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.

The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the sovereignty of God and not of salvation by being immersed in H20. Naaman was a heathen and was not ready to worship God until after the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by H20 but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out. (2 Kings 5:15)

The whole point is that salvation/healing comes by God's word. Jesus didn't tell the leper to go wash and simply healed him by his word. He commands us to get baptized, but work-phobic salvationaists scour scripture to find any excuse not to obey his word.

 

[LightBearer316]

The whole point is that salvation/healing comes by God's word. Jesus didn't tell the leper to go wash and simply healed him by his word. He commanded us to get baptized, but work-phobic salvationaists scour scripture to find any excuse not to obey his word.

The issue isn’t about finding excuses—it’s about understanding what the act represents. Baptism doesn’t save by the water itself, but by the faith and obedience it expresses. The outward act has no power apart from the inward reality. That’s the balance Scripture keeps throughout.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scriptures...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The issue isn’t about finding excuses—it’s about understanding what the act represents. Baptism doesn’t save by the water itself, but by the faith and obedience it expresses. The outward act has no power apart from the inward reality. That’s the balance Scripture keeps throughout.

Water baptism doesn't express anything. People express their faith by obeying God's word to be baptized.

 

[LightBearer316]

Right, obedience is how faith shows itself — that’s exactly what I’m saying. The act of baptism doesn’t create faith; it’s the outward step that follows it. The heart responds first, the water just marks what’s already happened within. As shown above: By Faith, Not by water!

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!

 

[mailmandan]

The whole point is that salvation/healing comes by God's word. Jesus didn't tell the leper to go wash and simply healed him by his word. He commands us to get baptized, but work-phobic salvationaists scour scripture to find any excuse not to obey his word.

After being convinced by his servants, Naaman finally obeyed the command by the prophet to dip 7 times in the river Jordan and was healed of leprosy. Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the river Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins. In Luke 5:12, the man with leprosy simply asked, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. No H20 involved.

Jesus does command believers to be baptized, and I have not refused to obey that command AFTER I was saved through faith. How is that finding an excuse not to obey His word? Yet it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's not about work-phobia (and we are not saved by works - Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9). It's about putting baptism in its proper place -- subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all good works must be. This does not remove good works (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 2:10)

 

[LightBearer316]

After being convinced by his servants, Naaman finally obeyed the command by the prophet to dip 7 times in the river Jordan and was healed of leprosy. Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the river Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins. In Luke 5:12, the man with leprosy simply asked, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. No H20 involved.

Jesus does command believers to be baptized, and I have not refused to obey that command AFTER I was saved through faith. How is that finding an excuse not to obey His word? Yet it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's not about work-phobia (and we are not saved by works - Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9). It's about putting baptism in its proper place -- subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all good works must be. This does not remove good works (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 2:10)

Yep, that’s exactly what it is. The Oneness/“Jesus Only”/UPCI - United Pentecostal Church International movement really does operate with a hive-mind mentality — same talking points, same circular reasoning. Once you’ve seen the pattern, it’s hard to miss.

Grace and Peace
Acts 17:11 (KJV)
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
https://ergonis.com/typinator
Highly Recommended - great for often cited scripture versus!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

After being convinced by his servants, Naaman finally obeyed the command by the prophet to dip 7 times in the river Jordan and was healed of leprosy. Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the river Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins. In Luke 5:12, the man with leprosy simply asked, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” 13 Then He put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately the leprosy left him. No H20 involved.

Jesus does command believers to be baptized, and I have not refused to obey that command AFTER I was saved through faith. How is that finding an excuse not to obey His word? Yet it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's not about work-phobia (and we are not saved by works - Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9). It's about putting baptism in its proper place -- subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all good works must be. This does not remove good works (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 2:10)

You're trying to use exceptions to avoid having to face the reality that we have to obey God's word. Faith alone doesn't cut it because faith alone only produces justification/reconciliation, ie, being declared righteous. His life is what saves and that requires work to walk in.

 

[Ouch]

Water and Spirit aren’t two separate requirements for salvation—they describe one spiritual birth. The Spirit is the agent, and the “water” symbolizes cleansing and renewal, not a ritual. Salvation rests in faith in Christ’s finished work, not the physical act of baptism.

Grace and Peace

So you keep saying, but still isn't true.

According to JESUS they are.

But if you don't have HIS spirit inside of you I can see why you can't "SEE".

We all have choices to make, follow JESUS and HIS words or your own.

It's not to late to repent!!

Best of luck, I'm out.

 

[mailmandan]

You're trying to use exceptions to avoid having to face the reality that we have to obey God's word.

I have obeyed God's word by believing in Jesus Christ for salvation in order to become saved (Acts 10:43) and I have obeyed God's word to get baptized after I was saved. (Acts 10:47-48) Why is it so important for you to believe that water baptism is what literally saves you? Is believing the gospel/trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation not enough for you? (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Yet Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-26; Romans 4:5-6) No supplements needed.

Faith alone doesn't cut it because faith alone only produces justification/reconciliation, ie, being declared righteous.

So, being justified by faith and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ doesn't cut it for you? (Romans 5:1) Justification = saved from the PENALTY of sin. Faith is accounted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5) That doesn't cut it for you, so you turn to supplements?

His life is what saves and that requires work to walk in.

That sounds like the Mormon gospel from the book of Mormon. 2 Nephi 25:23 - For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. In other words, do all you can or else the Lord will not be able to save you. Yet God's word says, "saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9) So, is it after all YOU can do or after all that Christ has DONE?

Romans 5:10 - For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. So, Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-26; 4:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I have obeyed God's word by believing in Jesus Christ for salvation in order to become saved (Acts 10:43) and I have obeyed God's word to get baptized after I was saved.

That's just your opinion that you got saved when you believed. Scripture doesn't make a distinction between faith and being baptized, but work-phobic salvationists sure do.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why is it so important for you to believe that water baptism is what literally saves you?

Water baptism doesnt save anymore than faith alone saves. Obeying God's voice is what saves. Water baptism is obedience to God's voice

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So, being justified by faith and having peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ doesn't cut it for you? (Romans 5:1) Justification = saved from the PENALTY of sin. Faith is accounted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5) That doesn't cut it for you, so you turn to supplements?

The penalty of sin is death. Justification by itself doesn't save you from death; Christ's life does.

 

[mailmandan]

That's just your opinion that you got saved when you believed.

That's not just my opinion. That's Scripture. (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 3:22-26; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Scripture doesn't make a distinction between faith and being baptized, but work-phobic salvationists sure do.

Scripture does make a distinction between faith and being baptized (Acts 10:43-47) but water-salvationists don't.

 

[mailmandan]

The penalty of sin is death. Justification by itself doesn't save you from death; Christ's life does.

Christ's life, death, burial and resurrection is the actual means of our salvation and being justified by faith is the instrumental means by which we obtain salvation.