Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

I agree that believing involves man's will, but that will must first be freed and enlightened by God in order to respond rightly

And I've said that too. Grace must enable a man by suppressing the sin nature in the flesh so a man can respond as he desires not as th sin nature forces him to.

For example, the Lord opened Lydia's heart so she would pay attention to Paul's words (Acts 16:14)

Yes but God draws on what is already in the heart in order to open it. It is not a blank slate (at least not at the point Lydia was). This is why the scripture says God draws us to Christ. We are not soda cans where one pop of the lid and all the content is there.

My difference here is simply that man's fallen nature leaves him unable to see or seek God until he is enlightened.

I know. That is why God always initiates with grace and truth.

I see what you mean about man being created to respond, and I agree that blindness is the issue caused by sin (2 Corinthians 4:4). But the King James Bible never describes God as suppressing the flesh. Instead, it presents His work as enlightening and opening the heart and understanding.

If a man is bound to the sin nature and that nature is anti-God? How can he respond of his own free will? The will is bound and has to be unbound from what is binding it. Why do you think the Calvinists/Reformed hold to regeneration prior to belief? They see that as the "unbinding" instead of the salvation it is. God is light and presents us with grace and truth that is how He enlightens and opens our hearts. We are not some mindless automaton. God designed us with response ability so we can take responsibility for our thoughts, words and deeds.

Faith can certainly strengthen and deepen through obedience and experience, but it does not originate from human effort and later become divine.

I know faith doesn't originate with human effort that is why I said the power to create faith is in the word. My believing will get me no-where unless God acts. Thankfully for us God keeps His word, always. Of course, if what you believe is not the truth? You can kiss faith goodbye.

You can only ever have as much faith as you have truth.

 

[sawdust]

the will of man lives in the flesh

No it doesn't. Volition is a function of the soul. We are souls, The body doesn't think, it simply works on the basis of the physical laws God designed it to have. The sin nature is another law in the body that God did not design that works to upend the other laws and keep the mind deceived. Grace interrupts the flow of "another law".

Rom.7:23
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[Cameron143]

They only have the same biological schematic designed by God.
Their natures can vary greatly.

Is the fact that dogs bark included in their nature?

 

[sawdust]

I'm not comparing natures to each other, but simply explaining natures.

You explained what? You established dogs have a nature and humans have a nature? Whoopy doo da! Why bother even raising the issue of dogs if it had nothing to do with comparing the two?

You tried to ascertain when a human gets their nature by asking about dogs. If you're not comparing the creation of two different natures then what were you doing?

It seems @Magenta doesn't understand dogs aren't made in the likeness of God.

 

[sawdust]

What's your denomination?

Christian

 

[Genez]

Really? So, in the new Eternal Order of the restored world, sin and death will still exist? Resurrected saints will possess the same ol' sin nature? I thought Christ conquered sin and death on behalf of God's elect, no?

The new eternal order will not have anything "restored."

All things that are now created will be destroyed by nuclear fusion.
All will be burned up!

God will then create an entirely new world and new universe. Not, restore them.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away ​

with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works ​

that are in it will be burned up.​

In Christ ..........

 

[Magenta]

You explained what? You established dogs have a nature and humans have a nature? Whoopy doo da! Why bother even raising the issue of dogs if it had nothing to do with comparing the two?

You tried to ascertain when a human gets their nature by asking about dogs. If you're not comparing the creation of two different natures then what were you doing?

It seems @Magenta doesn't understand dogs aren't made in the likeness of God.

If you are so clueless about the convo it would perhaps be best if you refrain from drawing such baseless conclusions.

Tho I have long known you were barking up the wrong tree, even when you act like a cat with all your hissing and yowling.

 

[Cameron143]

You explained what? You established dogs have a nature and humans have a nature? Whoopy doo da! Why bother even raising the issue of dogs if it had nothing to do with comparing the two?

You tried to ascertain when a human gets their nature by asking about dogs. If you're not comparing the creation of two different natures then what were you doing?

It seems @Magenta doesn't understand dogs aren't made in the likeness of God.

Grace and peace.

 

[Jordon]

No it doesn't. Volition is a function of the soul. We are souls, The body doesn't think, it simply works on the basis of the physical laws God designed it to have. The sin nature is another law in the body that God did not design that works to upend the other laws and keep the mind deceived. Grace interrupts the flow of "another law".

Rom.7:23
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

which one sound more credible that the nature of flesh is also the nature of the seed (the soul, )

Romans 723. Or there will be pain weeping and knashing of teeth in hell suffering of the conscience and torment.

 

[sawdust]

All of this doesn't explain why the soul is exerting influence on the flesh rather than the flesh exerting influence on the soul.

I don't know how you end up thinking I am saying the soul is exerting influence over the flesh.

It is the sin nature acting in the body, exacerbating the bodies normal functions, that deceives the mind because the mind is devoid of truth and in the dark.

God's grace and truth intercepts that process and frees a man to choose. He does not start with the Gospel, it is not even the second thing God makes known to man. It is a process of drawing and a man is made free to accept or reject. If he continuously rejects, he becomes reprobate. If he doesn't continually reject he will be drawn to Christ as He is the conclusion of the process for salvation is found in Him alone. Some only go so far and then veer off onto another path preferring their own brand of "spirituality".

 

[sawdust]

Grace and peace.

Typical, run away Cameron, don't actually explain yourself.

grace and peace to you too.

 

[Magenta]

Grace and peace.

Well, it is easy to see how these heretics get so far off Scriptural base when they cannot even follow a simple
conversation about how humans are born with human nature and dogs are born with the nature of dogs.
And let's not forget about those bananas!

 

[sawdust]

which one sound more credible that the nature of flesh is also the nature of the seed (the soul, )

Romans 723. Or there will be pain weeping and knashing of teeth in hell suffering of the conscience and torment.

Try simple reading. Where is the problem, in the body or the mind (soul)?

Rom.7:23
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

And please don't go off on some rant that has no bearing on the question. Simple answer, body or soul.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know how you end up thinking I am saying the soul is exerting influence over the flesh.

It is the sin nature acting in the body, exacerbating the bodies normal functions, that deceives the mind because the mind is devoid of truth and in the dark.

God's grace and truth intercepts that process and frees a man to choose. He does not start with the Gospel, it is not even the second thing God makes known to man. It is a process of drawing and a man is made free to accept or reject. If he continuously rejects, he becomes reprobate. If he doesn't continually reject he will be drawn to Christ as He is the conclusion of the process for salvation is found in Him alone. Some only go so far and then veer off onto another path preferring their own brand of "spirituality".

You aren't. The Bible has the soul influencing the flesh, not the other way around.

 

[Cameron143]

Typical, run away Cameron, don't actually explain yourself.

grace and peace to you too.

You don't actually listen.

 

[BillyBob]

And let's not forget about those bananas!

I don't know about you, but I think bananas have a beautiful nature! Evil does not lurk within them!

 

[Magenta]

You don't actually listen.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!!!

 

[Magenta]

I don't know about you, but I think bananas have a beautiful nature! Evil does not lurk within them!

I agree! Bananas are lovely...

 

[Genez]

This is simply more poor discernment. You write antagonist replies, not me.

For the record, I did not deny the rapture. I said it occurred 1st century. I also don't believe this precludes other raptures. Were not Enoch and Elijah raptured?

You have it real easy.
All you have to do is to make up something false, and be dogmatic about it.

But, you will have it real easy only for the time being.

 

[Jordon]

The new eternal order will not have anything "restored."

All things that are now created will be destroyed by nuclear fusion.
All will be burned up!

God will then create an entirely new world and new universe. Not, restore them.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away ​

with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works ​

that are in it will be burned up.​

In Christ ..........

The elements are the eternal foundation created in heaven.
The foundation will refine the earth,

Try simple reading. Where is the problem, in the body or the mind (soul)?

Rom.7:23
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

And please don't go off on some rant that has no bearing on the twerh question. Simple answer, body or soul.

you just want to make things fit it not my fault I can't agree with what your saying ..mind body and soul is what I just showed you.

If the soul has no mind how can the conscience suffer in hell

If the soul has no nature of the flesh how can your teeth knash in hell

And if the soul has no feeling of the flesh how can it weep and feel pain.in hell

And if the soul is sent to hell surely it's accountable for any conscious decision the mind makes with the law of God

In hell would the soul blame the flesh then ?

If for once you could actually answer clear instruction it might not feel as if I'm ranting