Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

[LightBearer316]

Just answered at a very basic level. There's more.

If you’ve got “more,” then bring the text and context.
Assertions aren’t arguments.
The basic level is where truth starts — the next level is proving your claim from Scripture, not assumption.
Grace and peace.

 

[Gideon300]

Our image and likeness pertaining to God is always spiritual in nature first.

Sure, but that does not mean that neither we nor God are not persons. Jesus appeared in human form before the incarnation. The Holy Spirit was present at the dawn of creation. We are a spirit being, that has a soul and that inhabits a body. God is Spirit, but Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

 

[studier]

studier is arguing that Romans 10:16 shows “obeying the gospel” equals “believing,” accusing me of twisting Scripture for a “faith-alone system.

You’re conflating equivalence of result with equivalence of meaning.
Romans 10:16–17 shows Paul using Isaiah 53:1 to contrast belief and unbelief — not to redefine faith as obedience.

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing…” (KJV)​

Paul quotes Isaiah to explain that Israel’s refusal to believe is disobedience, just as their refusal to listen to God’s word was.
The verb hupakouō (“to heed, listen under”) carries the sense of responsive hearing, not ritual action.
That’s why verse 17 immediately grounds everything in hearing and faith, not performance.

Faith → Obedience is Paul’s consistent order (Rom 1:5; 16:26).
He never teaches Faith = Obedience, because then justification would rest on the act, not the trust.

Letting “the text say what it says” means letting all of Paul speak — not isolating one phrase to overturn his entire argument in Romans 4–5.

Grace and Peace.

Consistent system over clear grammar. You have a lot to learn about the Word and how to read it.

 

[LightBearer316]

So you say. Self-deceit is something we all must get over if we're going to grow in the mind of Christ.

I've no interest in chasing you around in circles in Scripture when you ignore some in favor of others. Let Acts2:38 say what it says. It's the only way to truly harmonize Scripture. All the other Scriptures also say what they say. Arguments from silence is improper exegesis. I understand you like elementary root & fruit analogy, but it's you who doesn't understand how to use it and what is actually cause and effect per the Text.

You've got to be kidding about examining Acts2:38 further. Again, I'll ask you if you're ready to show some integrity and admit that you falsely and repeatedly referenced scholarly sources to teach an erroneous concept of a Greek preposition?

Let's begin at Rom10:16. It's very simple and very clear. It assists us in understanding Paul's view of faith which is the Hebrew view clarified for us in the NC. I've just explained the language to you in a just recent post. Accept it, or not, explain yourself, or continue to ignore, your choice.

studier here resorts to accusing me of “self-deceit,” “improper exegesis,” and “falsely teaching a Greek preposition.”

I’m not rejecting Paul, Hebrews, or Acts—I’m reading them together.
• Acts 2:38 KJV is clarified by Acts 10:43–48 KJV and Eph 1:13 KJV: forgiveness/Spirit come through faith in Christ, with baptism following.
• Rom 4:5 KJV: God justifies the ungodly by faith, not by works.
• Heb 10:14; 11 KJV: Christ perfects by His offering; obedience is the fruit of faith, not its cause.


If you think I “rewrote” Acts 2:38 or misused a source, quote the line and citation so we can examine it.
Assertions aren’t evidence—let’s deal in texts.
Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

Just dumb repetition and ignoring (and even changing) Scriptures that don't fit the system. Very typical for systematic theology.

Honestly, son, you're not even good at it. Too bad because you do have some talents.

Now studier dropped to open insult, calling my explanation “dumb repetition” and saying I;m “not even good at it.” That’s a personal attack, not theological engagement.

When responses shift from Scripture to insult, it usually means the argument has run out of footing.
I’ve shown from the text—Romans 4, Acts 10, and James 2—that faith precedes and produces obedience, not the other way around.
That distinction stands whether you mock it or not.


I don’t need to trade barbs; the Scriptures speak clearly.
Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

studier and Blue155 are affirming each other and implying that I'm the one “abusing” Scripture or “pushing systems.”

We should all love the Word enough to test everything by it.
But loving the Word also means handling it carefully, comparing Scripture with Scripture instead of isolating a verse to protect tradition.
If my posts challenge assumptions, that’s not “pushing a system”; it’s doing what Paul commended the Bereans for — “searching the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11 KJV)


I appreciate your zeal, but testing ideas isn’t abuse — it’s obedience.
Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

When we allow “the Bible to explain the Bible,” we will not come to erroneous conclusions.

Consider Paul's own conversion:
He was on his way to Damascus to persecute Christians when Jesus supernaturally appeared to him... Paul asked Jesus, “What shall I do?” Jesus said, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do” (Acts 9:4-6; 22:10). Paul (demonstrating his belief in Jesus) proceeded to Damascus where he fasted for three days and was “praying” (Acts 9:8-11), awaiting further instructions.
... God always uses people to teach people the Gospel. ...God used Ananias, who said to Paul: “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). Notice Ananias, God’s specially chosen messenger to Paul, did not tell Paul that his sins were washed away when Paul spoke to Jesus on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:4-6), or when he fasted for three days (9:9), or when he prayed (9:11). Even though Paul had seen Jesus, talked to Jesus, and sincerely fasted and prayed, he had not yet “called upon the Lord.” Acts 22:16 indicates that he “called upon the Lord” and had his sins washed away by the blood of Jesus when he took the final step on his way to becoming a Christian—when he was “baptized into Christ Jesus” (Romans 6:3-4).

Paul’s “calling on the name of the Lord” harmonizes perfectly with Peter's instructions in Acts 2. Peter quoted from the prophecy of Joel and told those in Jerusalem on Pentecost that “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Joel 2:32). The people in Acts 2 did not understand Peter’s quotation of Joel to mean that a sinner must pray to God for salvation. ... Furthermore, when Peter responded to their question and told them what to do to be saved, he did not say, “I’ve already told you what to do. You can be saved by petitioning God for salvation through prayer. Just call on His name.” On the contrary, Peter had to explain to them what it meant to “call on the name of the Lord.” Instead of repeating this statement when the crowd sought further guidance from the apostles, Peter commanded them, saying, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38).

In Romans 10:13, Paul (like Peter in Acts 2) quoted from Joel 2:32: “[W]hoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” When we allow “the Bible to explain the Bible,” we will not come to the erroneous conclusion that Paul is commanding the unbelieving Jews in Romans 10 to merely “cry out to the Lord” (cf. Matthew 7:21) or to “pray the sinner’s prayer.” Rather, with Paul’s own conversion in mind (his “calling on the name of the Lord”—Acts 22:16), as well as those on Pentecost (Acts 2), we realize that in Romans 10 Paul is pleading with (especially) the Jews, who “have not all obeyed the gospel” (Romans 10:16) to “call on the name of the Lord”—that is, to “obey the gospel.” And to “obey the Gospel” is to hear and believe the Gospel (Romans 10:17), to repent of sins (Romans 6:2,6; Acts 2:38), to make the good confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Romans 10:9-10), and to be immersed in water for the remission of sins (Romans 6:3-4; Acts 2:38; 22:16)." (AP excerpt)

You’re merging several distinct texts into a single timeline that Paul himself never gives.
Faith and baptism are both commanded — but Scripture keeps their order and category distinct.

Paul’s encounter in Acts 9 already shows saving faith: he calls Jesus “Lord” (Acts 9:5–6). That confession — before Ananias, before water — is the mark of belief (1 Cor 12:3).
When Ananias later says “be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16), he’s describing identification, not the means of cleansing. The participle epikalesamenos (“having called upon”) points back to the faith already exercised. The washing is through His blood (Eph 1:7), applied by faith (Rom 3:25), not by water.

Throughout Scripture, to call on the name of the Lord means to invoke Him in faith (Gen 4:26; Joel 2:32; Rom 10:13). Peter’s Pentecost sermon follows that same pattern: they believed, were cut to the heart, then repented and were baptized (Acts 2:37–38). Baptism follows belief — it does not create it.

Romans 6 portrays baptism as symbolic union: buried with Christ, raised to walk in newness of life. Romans 10:17 defines “calling” as believing the message heard. The cause is faith; baptism is the confession of it.

The consistent New Testament order is:
Faith --> Justification --> Obedience (baptism, works, witness)

To reverse that order makes grace dependent on performance — precisely what Paul rejects in Romans 4:5.

“To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.”​

“In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” (Eph 1:7)​

Faith in Christ’s finished work, not ritual or formula, is what God counts as righteousness.
Grace and peace.

 

[studier]

Now studier dropped to open insult, calling my explanation “dumb repetition” and saying I;m “not even good at it.” That’s a personal attack, not theological engagement.

When responses shift from Scripture to insult, it usually means the argument has run out of footing.
I’ve shown from the text—Romans 4, Acts 10, and James 2—that faith precedes and produces obedience, not the other way around.
That distinction stands whether you mock it or not.


I don’t need to trade barbs; the Scriptures speak clearly.
Grace and peace.

Set your Typinator software aside and do some thinking. You've filled your software with error and it is dumb to just be pushing buttons and pasting it.

 

[LightBearer316]

Consistent system over clear grammar. You have a lot to learn about the Word and how to read it.

It’s not about having a “system”; it’s about following what the text itself says.
Paul’s use of hupēkousan in Romans 10:16 simply means Israel refused to heed the message. He immediately explains that refusal as unbelief — “Who hath believed our report?” (Isa 53:1 / Rom 10:16).
That’s not redefining faith as obedience; it’s describing the outcome of unbelief.


Verse 17 keeps the order clear: hearing → faith → obedience.
If we collapse those together, we erase Paul’s own grammar and the very logic of Romans 4–5.


Grace and peace.

 

[studier]

studier and Blue155 are affirming each other and implying that I'm the one “abusing” Scripture or “pushing systems.”

I'm telling mom! MOM!

You are abusing Scripture and you are pushing a theological system. They go together.

 

[LightBearer316]

Set your Typinator software aside and do some thinking. You've filled your software with error and it is dumb to just be pushing buttons and pasting it.

That’s unnecessary, studier. Typinator is just a text expansion tool — not a substitute for study or thought.
Everything I’ve written comes from Scripture, not software. If you’d like to engage the argument, cite the text.
Insults don’t strengthen doctrine — they only show where substance is missing.


Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

I'm telling mom! MOM!

You are abusing Scripture and you are pushing a theological system. They go together.

If that’s the level of discussion you prefer, that’s your choice.
I’m here to compare Scripture with Scripture, not trade playground remarks.
If you’d like to return to the text, we can — but until then, I’ll let your words stand on their own.


Grace and peace.

 

[LightBearer316]

Sure, but that does not mean that neither we nor God are not persons. Jesus appeared in human form before the incarnation. The Holy Spirit was present at the dawn of creation. We are a spirit being, that has a soul and that inhabits a body. God is Spirit, but Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

That’s a fair summary.
Genesis 1:26–27 establishes personal language in the plural — “Let Us make man in Our image” — showing that relationship and fellowship are built into the divine nature.
Christ is the visible expression of that invisible God (Colossians 1:15 KJV), while the Spirit reveals His presence and power (Genesis 1:2).
Humanity reflects that triune design: spirit, soul, and body — distinct, yet united in one being.


Grace and peace.

 

[TrustandObey]

@studier, no idea how you’re able to keep going back and forth with him. Your patience is incredible.

I was thinking the same thing. Your efforts are noble and needed.

This nonsense should be rebuked.

 

[LightBearer316]

I was thinking the same thing. Your efforts are noble and needed.

This nonsense should be rebuked.

If “rebuke” means comparing what’s said to Scripture, I welcome it.
That’s exactly what I’ve asked for all along — deal with the text, not the person.
Romans 4, Acts 10, and Ephesians 1 still stand as written, whether someone agrees with me or not.
If you believe the verses mean something different, then show it from the Word.


This TrustandObey account echoes studier’s wording and appears only to reinforce his posts.
Whether it’s the same user or just another echo, it doesn’t change the fact that the arguments themselves collapse when tested by Scripture.
The text, not tag-teaming, determines truth.

Grace and peace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I think we need to consider the possibility that LightBearer316 is not someone using AI, but is AI itself with human support, like Tesla and others always have a technician onboard when testing their self-driving cars. In this case maybe they're just training their model by interacting with us

If it's not that then the person behind the account has a totally robotic mind that has no capacity to interact with humans in a normal way.

 

[LightBearer316]

I was thinking the same thing. Your efforts are noble and needed.

This nonsense should be rebuked.

If that’s the best you can offer, it says more about the weakness of your arguments than about me.
I’m very much human — I just take Scripture and reasoning seriously enough to organize what I say.
When people start calling others “robots” instead of addressing the text, it shows the conversation’s moved away from truth.
Grace and peace.​

 

[LightBearer316]

I think we need to consider the possibility that LightBearer316 is not someone using AI, but is AI itself with human support, like Tesla and others always have a technician onboard when testing their self-driving cars. In this case maybe they're just training their model by interacting with us

If it's not that then the person behind the account has a totally robotic mind that has no capacity to interact with humans in a normal way.

Come on, if you’re going to issue a “challenge,” bring Scripture, not noise.
Taunting isn’t debate — it’s just proof you’ve run out of text.
Proverbs 26:5 KJV says, “Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.”
So here’s your answer: your position collapses because it can’t stand on the Word alone.


Grace and peace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

@LightBearer316 does your programming allow you to lie?

 

[LightBearer316]

@LightBearer316 does your programming allow you to lie?

No, but apparently your posting style allows for false accusations when the text exposes your error.
If you can’t engage the argument, just say so — but stop pretending mockery is discernment.
Truth doesn’t need programming, only Scripture rightly divided.


Grace and peace.