Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

That's so sweet, don't care if your tongue was in your cheek while typing it. If you're American, hope tongue in cheek has the same meaning for you friend

he could be a devoted puppy tho m, as in a devoted loving puppy waggling his tail and pants a lot when he gets met with love

 

[Rufus]

In Judaism, "Tree of Life" (Hebrew: etz chaim) is a metaphor for the Torah, as well as a term for a scroll where the Torah is written, and a symbol for something that provides everlasting life or spiritual nourishment. Adam and Eve were originally able to eat from it to live forever, but after their exile from Eden, they could no longer access it. However, the New Testament book of Revelation suggests that those who overcome will be granted the ability to eat from the tree again.

"In Judaism", perhaps. But in the bible: Not so much.

The trees of life in Revelation are very likely symbols for life. No created physical thing can impart spiritual life. Besides, since God and the Lamb are going to fill the earth with their Holy Presence and actually represent God's Temple, this means all the saints in the New Eternal Order will be in God and Christ and vice versa! Life inherently resides in the Author of Life, which aren't trees.

 

[Magenta]

Simply amazing that you and the other free willies, claim those that give God ALL the credit for quickening us, and giving us the faith to believe in Jesus Christ and His Atoning Sacrifice are arrogant because we believe we are predestined for Salvation.

You just wrote that YOUR preference is to do good and, NOT evil, like the lost does, therefore because you are a better person than they, you prefer good and to choose Jesus. All of this occurring prior to regeneration and new birth.

How is that not the picture of boasting and arrogance?


So God suppresses the human sin nature, for some indeterminate amount of time, so that you choose to do good!? And He does this for everyone, but only those that do good and not evil will choose Him, because you are better people!?

Show me this in Scripture.

Hint, don’t look too long, it ain’t there!

Yes, we praise God and are told we are boasting in self while they claim they overcame the world with
their incurably wicked heart which needs replacing and then they were born again, the opposite of what
Scripture actually says... they boast in the flesh but are blind to it, since flesh cannot do what Scripture
asserts it cannot, but that does not stop them from saying it can and does. Really becomes more obvious
how plainly spoken Bible verses are said to be exegesis while they continually reject what is explicitly
articulated to insert their preference instead, and parallel verses are said to be taken out of context LOL.
The parallel verses have everything to do with the subject matter of who the natural man is and what
he is capable of but they are going to deny it, and keep telling us Scripture does not say what it does.

 

[Genez]

Choice and will are not the same, we can choose something but can be prevented from enacting it by the will of others. Also being able to prevent them enacting their will at times.

We still have will but not free will in our fallen state.

God sees our choices as having real substance.
What we think is something solid to God!
He evaluates us on the basis of how we choose, not if we are able to achieve what we choose.

Here's an example.

You just have to think it! (this speaks of malicious anger)

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, ​

and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone ​

who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment." Matthew 5:21-22a​

You think it? You have murdered as far as God is concerned.

When we are in our resurrection body and living in eternity?
You would only have to think it to have something materialized as done.
That is why we are all now being tested and evaluated for how we choose to desire in our hearts.
To see how much our way of choosing can be trusted to God's power in eternity.

For God will deny us and limit our power to having our way in eternity, based upon how we now are willing
to be submitting to the Spirit with sound doctrine. Sound doctrine!

Those who seek false doctrine, because it pleases their flesh and the natural pattern of their emotions?
They must be denied great rewards for that reason. They will be saved. But, made to be limited in how
much eternal life power is to be had in their experience. For they will have proved themselves in their soul
that they are unable to be trusted with too much power. That is why God allows Christians, if they so choose,
to be malicious and arrogant. It's to set the template for how much power they will be granted to have in eternity.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, (sound doctrine)​

wood, hay or straw, (erroneous doctrines)their work will be shown for what it is, because ​

the Day will bring it to light. ​

​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss, but yet will be saved—even though only ​

as one escaping through the flames.​

​

1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

God is not being mocked.​

God is simply collecting what is needed for our Evaluation.​

​

​

......​

 

[Rufus]

God's Choice?

God chose out from all the people that he knew would believe?
Only some... to be the bride of Christ.
That is what we have been chosen for!

For he chose when we are to be born and to believe.
Which is during the Church age - to make us the Bride.

But, He does not choose who is to believe, and who is not to believe.

To say He chooses who is to believe, and who is not to believe?
Is to make God heartless and cruel.

For He could have just as easily chosen someone destined to Hell, to believe in that case.

We need to be logical and make sense.

And what exactly would be the basis for such cruelty and heartlessness? It appears you missed or ignored my two-post series on Judas,which totally blows your objection out of the water.

 

[Jordon]

Sadly neither of them, nor others they hang around with, strike me as people with strong, spiritual chops. They clearly have issues with people disagreeing with them too and actually dislike discussion taking place, in the Bible Discussion Forum.

Sadly it seems that way m

But we must be like are friend Cameron and have optimism and hope for mutualism

 

[Genez]

Do you notice they same ole questions over and over again by different people. This questions do not come on their own, they are coached.

.... "why do some refuse" "or where does faith come from" as if that question is the answer for irresistible grace/regeneration before faith.

Your answer will not satisfy... just so you know.

I give the answer anyway.

For no one will ask God for mercy for their evil doing because they were never told what they needed to know.

 

[LifelongLearner]

he could be a devoted puppy tho m, as in a devoted loving puppy waggling his tail and pants a lot when he gets met with love

Made my day it seems you two might really be people i can look forward to interesting, friendly discussions with. I really hope so, blessings and all that's good.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Sadly it seems that way m

But we must be like are friend Cameron and have optimism and hope for mutualism

There's always hope friend but i won't hold my breath while waiting

 

[Jordon]

Made my day it seems you two might really be people i can look forward to interesting, friendly discussions with. I really hope so, blessings and all that's good.

I've always liked people who can me laugh about my silky behaviour m i then realise how silly I've been.
I feel it's a gift to accept people by there mistakes as much as it to accept them for there goodness

I always do get on well with this manna

 

[Rufus]

View attachment 281476

Let’s try again without serving us a word salad.

Are you smarter to understand Scripture, more moral, and a generally better person than those that refuse Jesus after they hear the Gospel?

Or, being dead, did God “quicken” you, so that when you heard the Gospel, you believed and received Him?

Which is it?

In either case, explain WHY the lost refuse Him.

Oh, that's easy. FWers believe what differentiates a believer who accepts Christ and a sinner who rejects Christ are the people themselves. God most certainly does not and cannot make the difference since Genez's weird version of "enabling" grace is not efficacious. Therefore, efficacy, logically, can be found only in people's personal choices.

 

[Genez]

A bit sorry for you Genez, whether you truly believe the above or want to cause friction. Don't forget the Lord wants us to love and rejoice in Him too, just as much as He wants us to fear His righteous wrath.

But, not to compromise the truth so we can all get along.....

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. ​

From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, ​

three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against ​

son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against ​

mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against ​

mother-in-law.”​

​

Luke 12:51-53​

Wherever the Word is presented? Be it sound, or false? There is going to opposition and conflict.
Friction will be unavoidable unless you stick with those who you agree with if you want peace...
Or, stick with those who are like-minded to boast over others with.

Some here are being exposed for being snobs. Too good for the FW'ers.

 

[HeIsHere]

Acts 15:9


“He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”


The order clearly laid out is as follows:

1. “He purified their hearts…”
2. “…by faith.”

It does not say He purified their hearts by regeneration so as to make them have faith. Clearly a purified heart is a fruit of faith, not the other way around.

 

[Genez]

And what exactly would be the basis for such cruelty and heartlessness? It appears you missed or ignored my two-post series on Judas,which totally blows your objection out of the water.

If you say so.

Have a nice Day.

 

[Jordon]

God sees our choices as having real substance.
What we think is something solid to God!
He evaluates us on the basis of how we choose, not if we are able to achieve what we choose.

Here's an example.

You just have to think it! (this speaks of malicious anger)

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, ​

and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone ​

who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment." Matthew 5:21-22a​

You think it? You have murdered as far as God is concerned.

When we are in our resurrection body and living in eternity?
You would only have to think it to have something materialized as done.
That is why we are all now being tested and evaluated for how we choose to desire in our hearts.
To see how much our way of choosing can be trusted to God's power in eternity.

For God will deny us and limit our power to having our way in eternity, based upon how we now are willing
to be submitting to the Spirit with sound doctrine. Sound doctrine!

Those who seek false doctrine, because it pleases their flesh and the natural pattern of their emotions?
They must be denied great rewards for that reason. They will be saved. But, made to be limited in how
much eternal life power is to be had in their experience. For they will have proved themselves in their soul
that they are unable to be trusted with too much power. That is why God allows Christians, if they so choose,
to be malicious and arrogant. It's to set the template for how much power they will be granted to have in eternity.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, (sound doctrine)​

wood, hay or straw, (erroneous doctrines)their work will be shown for what it is, because ​

the Day will bring it to light. ​

​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss, but yet will be saved—even though only ​

as one escaping through the flames.​

​

1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

God is not being mocked.​

God is simply collecting what is needed for our Evaluation.​

​

​

......​

You may have forgot your subject for every careless word spoken.

 

[HeIsHere]

I give the answer anyway.

For no one will ask God for mercy for their evil doing because they were never told what they needed to know.

Yes that is true.

 

[Jordon]

I give the answer anyway.

For no one will ask God for mercy for their evil doing because they were never told what they needed to know.

Yes that is true.

oh but they where no one is without excuse

 

[Rufus]

OK, you clearly need the obvious spelling out to you. The deductive power we were blessed with which is called reasoning, it enables us to make decisions.
Suspect your reasoning power is more limited than most, look for a more detailed definition, it might help.

The mind (reasoning) is but one of the four human faculties. The other two that drive or choices (volitions) are our emotions and conscience.

 

[LifelongLearner]

God sees our choices as having real substance.
What we think is something solid to God!
He evaluates us on the basis of how we choose, not if we are able to achieve what we choose.

Here's an example.

You just have to think it! (this speaks of malicious anger)

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, ​

and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone ​

who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment." Matthew 5:21-22a​

You think it? You have murdered as far as God is concerned.

When we are in our resurrection body and living in eternity?
You would only have to think it to have something materialized as done.
That is why we are all now being tested and evaluated for how we choose to desire in our hearts.
To see how much our way of choosing can be trusted to God's power in eternity.

For God will deny us and limit our power to having our way in eternity, based upon how we now are willing
to be submitting to the Spirit with sound doctrine. Sound doctrine!

Those who seek false doctrine, because it pleases their flesh and the natural pattern of their emotions?
They must be denied great rewards for that reason. They will be saved. But, made to be limited in how
much eternal life power is to be had in their experience. For they will have proved themselves in their soul
that they are unable to be trusted with too much power. That is why God allows Christians, if they so choose,
to be malicious and arrogant. It's to set the template for how much power they will be granted to have in eternity.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, (sound doctrine)​

wood, hay or straw, (erroneous doctrines)their work will be shown for what it is, because ​

the Day will bring it to light. ​

​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss, but yet will be saved—even though only ​

as one escaping through the flames.​

​

1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

God is not being mocked.​

God is simply collecting what is needed for our Evaluation.​

​

​

......​

Actually feel sad for you Genez, we read the same scriptures but clearly don't derive the same meaning sometimes. Which is ok, however, your kind seek to impose YOUR opinons on others and sabotage meaningful, potentially useful discussions for other Christians.
However, you don't have the decency to create your own thread for your choice of discussion, rather than hijacking mine.

 

[HeIsHere]

2 Corinthians 3:14-16

“But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

1. “…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith)
2. “…the veil is taken away.

Order once again clearly laid out... faith first then the veil is taken away.