Loss of salvation???

[Jordon]

Now the thing is and this important to this whole discussion mm

Is arming yourself for disapproval. So there are many people in the world, who all have thoughts of there own, and the reality of that some of these thoughts are going to offend. And the reality is it's always going to happen, but if you can to truly come to love Gods sovereign will in the love he has for you, none of these thoughts can offend you.

In fact you don't need to reply, as no doubt there will be another time seeing as where on the internet,.with people who could be experiencing all sorts of mixed thoughts, so anyway moving on moving forward, the best thing is to not buy into any drama to much if it's causing you offense, as there could be a reason for it.

 

[Musicmaster]

Given the numerous facets that project the difficulties behind the belief about salvational loss within this dispensation of grace, some don't seem cognizant of the fact of what Paul describes in his epistle to the Romans:

[Rom 7:14-20
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

This isn't an appeal to the idea of freely sinning, but rather showing to us the nature of sin in relation to our lives on this earth as those who are in the body of Christ Jesus through faith, not works.

So, all the self-effort behind trying to control sin as an avoidance of some unknown point of that imaginary line for loss of salvation, it's meaningless and without merit in trying to effect any and all attempts of avoidance while trying to keep an eye on that imaginary line that nobody here or anywhere else has been able to identify and define.

In other words, the claim that OSAS somehow leads to a life of free sin and loose living, that's nothing more than a denial of the Power of God in our lives for sanctification and the indwelling of Holy Spirit. That claim of loose living is nothing but a cop-out to try and replace faith with works-based salvation that most religions convey to their blind followers, claiming the need for such crap as religious sacraments and other works of effort to allegedly stave off sin and bring about saving merits.

MM

 

[Jordon]

Given the numerous facets that project the difficulties behind the belief about salvational loss within this dispensation of grace, some don't seem cognizant of the fact of what Paul describes in his epistle to the Romans:

[Rom 7:14-20
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

This isn't an appeal to the idea of freely sinning, but rather showing to us the nature of sin in relation to our lives on this earth as those who are in the body of Christ Jesus through faith, not works.

So, all the self-effort behind trying to control sin as an avoidance of some unknown point of that imaginary line for loss of salvation, it's meaningless and without merit in trying to effect any and all attempts of avoidance while trying to keep an eye on that imaginary line that nobody here or anywhere else has been able to identify and define.

In other words, the claim that OSAS somehow leads to a life of free sin and loose living, that's nothing more than a denial of the Power of God in our lives for sanctification and the indwelling of Holy Spirit. That claim of loose living is nothing but a cop-out to try and replace faith with works-based salvation that most religions convey to their blind followers, claiming the need for such crap as religious sacraments and other works of effort to allegedly stave off sin and bring about saving merits.

MM

well there's so much I could say, but you will probably get the hump again.

Seeing as your all about labelling Gods words to specific groups, could I possibly reach your mentality.

Because if your not labelling Gods words Calvinism your labeling it once saved always saved.

It called finding reason to take peoples beliefs away, which you dont have, which I see everyday here.

And further to your assesment of no one can answer to Paul's walk.

Well you've got one thing right.

They can't Only God does as every word he has spoken there has come from a battle of two wills inside of him.

 

[TruthDefender]

Still stuck on Salvation. I’m just amazed that no one on here can seem to move past this.

Bro, are you born? Are you still in your mom. Let’s discuss that. How do we really know that we’re born?! What if I become unborn? Stop worrying about bs

Move on! Your saved. Now start becoming useful. Who are you praying for/ ministering to? Quit wallowing

“But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[DeanM]

Still stuck on Salvation. I’m just amazed that no one on here can seem to move past this.

Bro, are you born? Are you still in your mom. Let’s discuss that. How do we really know that we’re born?! What if I become unborn? Stop worrying about bs

Move on! Your saved. Now start becoming useful. Who are you praying for/ ministering to? Quit wallowing

I wonder if some think that belief isnt enough? Is it really that simple? Yes it is. Christ born of a virgin, crucified and ressurected. Believe that? Then your good.

 

[TruthDefender]

I wonder if some think that belief isnt enough? Is it really that simple? Yes it is. Christ born of a virgin, crucified and ressurected. Believe that? Then your good.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[DeanM]

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

What is belief but faith?

 

[sawdust]

What is belief but faith?

Some people don't realise you can't have faith unless you have the word and if you believe the word, you have Christ in you (because God keeps his promises Jn.3:16) and if you have Christ in you (He is the Word), you are saved.

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

and ..

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The Gospel is the word of God. It is the power of the word that makes our believing saving faith and gives it the assurance and certain conviction.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

God is not fickle, He does not come and go from a person. What belongs to Him stays with Him for He keeps it even when we are unfaithful.

Nor is He mocked. Imagine if God could lose those He saved what a field day Satan would have mocking the Lord for His inability to keep what is His.

Either a person believes and is saved (because God does not lie) or a person does not believe and is not saved.

 

[TruthDefender]

What is belief but faith?

Yep, just emphasizing.

 

[TruthDefender]

Some people don't realise you can't have faith unless you have the word and if you believe the word, you have Christ in you (because God keeps his promises Jn.3:16) and if you have Christ in you (He is the Word), you are saved.

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

and ..

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The Gospel is the word of God. It is the power of the word that makes our believing saving faith and gives it the assurance and certain conviction.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

God is not fickle, He does not come and go from a person. What belongs to Him stays with Him for He keeps it even when we are unfaithful.

Nor is He mocked. Imagine if God could lose those He saved what a field day Satan would have mocking the Lord for His inability to keep what is His.

Either a person believes and is saved (because God does not lie) or a person does not believe and is not saved.

Are you of the OSAS camp? If so, this concept is not Scriptural.

 

[sawdust]

Are you of the OSAS camp? If so, this concept is not Scriptural.

Of course it is scriptural. No-one can make dead what God has made alive. If you think you can die again after Christ has paid for your sin and ransomed you from death? You are one sorry creature. Where is your assurance of eternal life? Where is your conviction Christ saved you? And having saved you, you now have to keep yourself saved? That's bonkers.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

What we are responsible for after salvation is to work out what we have been given. That is where people fail and they end up walking after the flesh instead of the Spirit which makes them look like unbelievers but God is not mocked and will take them home if they persist and refuse to repent.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

Non-OSAS people constantly quote passages that speak of falling from grace, or loss of production but nowhere does it say you will die again after salvation. How can you be saved form death which, is the promise of God, if you are not saved from death but only maybe saved depending on how well you behave. You may as well scrub Eph.2:8 from scripture. No-one earns their salvation but we do earn rewards through our obedience. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

 

[TruthDefender]

Of course it is scriptural. No-one can make dead what God has made alive. If you think you can die again after Christ has paid for your sin and ransomed you from death? You are one sorry creature. Where is your assurance of eternal life? Where is your conviction Christ saved you? And having saved you, you now have to keep yourself saved? That's bonkers.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

What we are responsible for after salvation is to work out what we have been given. That is where people fail and they end up walking after the flesh instead of the Spirit which makes them look like unbelievers but God is not mocked and will take them home if they persist and refuse to repent.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

Non-OSAS people constantly quote passages that speak of falling from grace, or loss of production but nowhere does it say you will die again after salvation. How can you be saved form death which, is the promise of God, if you are not saved from death but only maybe saved depending on how well you behave. You may as well scrub Eph.2:8 from scripture. No-one earns their salvation but we do earn rewards through our obedience. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

““For many are called, but few are chosen.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[TruthDefender]

Of course it is scriptural. No-one can make dead what God has made alive. If you think you can die again after Christ has paid for your sin and ransomed you from death? You are one sorry creature. Where is your assurance of eternal life? Where is your conviction Christ saved you? And having saved you, you now have to keep yourself saved? That's bonkers.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

What we are responsible for after salvation is to work out what we have been given. That is where people fail and they end up walking after the flesh instead of the Spirit which makes them look like unbelievers but God is not mocked and will take them home if they persist and refuse to repent.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

Non-OSAS people constantly quote passages that speak of falling from grace, or loss of production but nowhere does it say you will die again after salvation. How can you be saved form death which, is the promise of God, if you are not saved from death but only maybe saved depending on how well you behave. You may as well scrub Eph.2:8 from scripture. No-one earns their salvation but we do earn rewards through our obedience. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

It’s not a reward?? Lol

““And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[TruthDefender]

Of course it is scriptural. No-one can make dead what God has made alive. If you think you can die again after Christ has paid for your sin and ransomed you from death? You are one sorry creature. Where is your assurance of eternal life? Where is your conviction Christ saved you? And having saved you, you now have to keep yourself saved? That's bonkers.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

What we are responsible for after salvation is to work out what we have been given. That is where people fail and they end up walking after the flesh instead of the Spirit which makes them look like unbelievers but God is not mocked and will take them home if they persist and refuse to repent.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

Non-OSAS people constantly quote passages that speak of falling from grace, or loss of production but nowhere does it say you will die again after salvation. How can you be saved form death which, is the promise of God, if you are not saved from death but only maybe saved depending on how well you behave. You may as well scrub Eph.2:8 from scripture. No-one earns their salvation but we do earn rewards through our obedience. Salvation is a gift, not a reward.

If you can’t lose salvation, then we can just go out and do whatever we want and not worry about how we live?? Yes?? Lol

 

[TruthDefender]

The OSAS camp is void of common sense and logic!

 

[DeanM]

It’s not a reward?? Lol

““And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Rewards will be handed out at the judgement seat. Your confusing rewards with salvation.

 

[sawdust]

““For many are called, but few are chosen.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So what are you saying? Everyone is called to salvation but only a few are chosen for salvation? You hold to TULIP then? Believing the word of God has nothing to do with salvation because it is God who chooses who to save?

It’s not a reward?? Lol

““And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You can't separate the gift of salvation from death from the rewards of obedience in faith?

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

If you can’t lose salvation, then we can just go out and do whatever we want and not worry about how we live?? Yes?? Lol

Sure, go and try it if you want. Don't blame me when you are taken home early and painfully because you failed miserably to honour the Lord who ransomed you from death.

Did you not read what happens to those who think like that? They not only lose rewards, they die the sin unto death and quite often that is preceded by a prolonged period of sickness. Apart from the fact there is no evidence anyone who thinks they can go on sinning is in fact a believer. There are worse things in life than death, being insane is one of those things.

Christ died to save us from death, not our own stupidity.

The OSAS camp is void of common sense and logic!

The argument of those with no argument.

 

[Cameron143]

If you can’t lose salvation, then we can just go out and do whatever we want and not worry about how we live?? Yes?? Lol

Hypothetically, this is correct. But...in practice, it will never happen. Why?
...we possess a new nature that eshews evil and desires righteousness.
...we have the indwelling Spirit to convict us of sin.
...whom the Lord loves, He chastens, even to death.

So while it is possible, no truly indwelt Christian thinks this way, or in duration, acts this way.

 

[TruthDefender]

Rewards will be handed out at the judgement seat. Your confusing rewards with salvation.

That verse is talking about His 2nd coming.

 

[TruthDefender]

Hypothetically, this is correct. But...in practice, it will never happen. Why?
...we possess a new nature that eshews evil and desires righteousness.
...we have the indwelling Spirit to convict us of sin.
...whom the Lord loves, He chastens, even to death.

So while it is possible, no truly indwelt Christian thinks this way, or in duration, acts this way.

lolololol