Israel.

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Pilgrimshope said:
indeed what’s changes is that gentiles have been included with them and they are no longer considered seperate and “the chosen ones “ the ruined tbat by breaking thier covenant but the new is made with the house of Israel to save them from the curse of breaking the old ….

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They broke their covenant and receives its curses . What people aren’t grasping is gentiles we’re included in the new covenant when Jesus sent those Israelites out to preach the gospel to both Jew and also everyone else ( gentiles )

Israel’s salvation is the gospel they can’t be saved by thier old covenant they have to repent and accept the messiah and his word to them and everyone else after

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel isn’t identified by flesh and blood anymore

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:

but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

In other words being born as a descendant of Abraham or Jacob doesn’t make a person an Israelite in the new covenant but this makes a person a child of Abraham and therefore child of God

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith in Christ Jesus identifies Gods people now not who thier ancestors are

the covenant changed and therefore the people and how they are identified has changed
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" And the King shall answer and say unto them Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these MY BRETHREN, ye have done it unto me". Matt.25:40. Just curious, but was Jesus talking only about those that believed Him to be the Messiah or to the Jewish people in general? Are those that didn't receive Him no longer His brethren? I know that the Jewish people who don't receive Jesus as their savior won't be saved, but until then, they are still the apple of God's eye. They are the natural, we are the ingrafted. We Gentile believers are Abraham's seed because the Seed dwells in us, else we'd be seeds. It seems, although I agree with most of your post, that the " replacement theologists " would make the same claims. We must keep in mind that Jesus, " the same yesterday to day and forever " Heb. 13:8, is still Jewish.
 
bytheblood said:
" And the King shall answer and say unto them Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these MY BRETHREN, ye have done it unto me". Matt.25:40. Just curious, but was Jesus talking only about those that believed Him to be the Messiah or to the Jewish people in general?
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He was talking about these people

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12:48-50​
 
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bytheblood said:
" And the King shall answer and say unto them Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these MY BRETHREN, ye have done it unto me". Matt.25:40. Just curious, but was Jesus talking only about those that believed Him to be the Messiah or to the Jewish people in general? Are those that didn't receive Him no longer His brethren? I know that the Jewish people who don't receive Jesus as their savior won't be saved, but until then, they are still the apple of God's eye. They are the natural, we are the ingrafted. We Gentile believers are Abraham's seed because the Seed dwells in us, else we'd be seeds. It seems, although I agree with most of your post, that the " replacement theologists " would make the same claims. We must keep in mind that Jesus, " the same yesterday to day and forever " Heb. 13:8, is still Jewish.
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Jewish ? His the son of gods brethren ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the gentile through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-9‬ ‭

“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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TrutherMom said:
what if all the fighting in the ME, and the division of the land over there was completely un necessary. What if where we are told gods holy land, the yore Jerusalem is, isn’t where it really is. What if Satan has deceived the whole world and put the name Israel on a completely different location. I believe the Bible tells us that he has done exactly that. The true Israel is not where we are told it is. |
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You are saying what if the Bible is false? The historical boundaries of Israel are much larger than the land Israel currently occupies. However, secular history and the Bible confirm that Israel indeed dwells in the land God gave to Abraham and his descendants. That is exactly why the world hates Israel. The world is controlled by the devil (1 John 5:19). It is hardly surprising that the devil's puppets hate God's work.
 
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john832 said:
Before we can even have an intelligent discussion about Israel, we have to understand there are actually thirteen tribes...

Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Asher
Issachar
Zebulun
Joseph - Who had two sons who were made tribes
Ephraim
Manasseh
Benjamin

How many of these tribes are Jews?

ONE - Judah

Here is an interesting scripture

2Ki 16:1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign.
2Ki 16:2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father.
2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Ki 16:4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.
2Ki 16:5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him.
2Ki 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.

The context is that Israel is at war with the Jews.

After Solomon death his son Rehoboam became king and wanted to exact terrible taxation on the nation. Jereboam led a breakaway of the the northern ten tribes and established a capital at Samaria. Judah, Benjamin and Levi remained in the south with a capital at Jerusalem. From then on, the southern kingdom was Judah and the northern kingdom was Israel.

All Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews. Example: All Alaskans are Americans but not all Americans are Alaskans.

Israel went in to captivity to Assyria in 721-718BC. Judah went into captivity to Babylon in 607-587BC.

Also, the name Israel was not to be placed on Judah or the Jews...

Gen 48:3 Then Jacob said to Joseph: "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me,
Gen 48:4 and said to me, 'Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.'
Gen 48:5 And now your two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

Gen 48:16 The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Bless the lads; Let my name be named upon them, And the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."

So Israel (Jacob) said that from then on, the name 'Israel' was to be named on Ephraim and Manasseh. It was not placed on Judah.
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You can’t just change the number from 12 to 13! Joseph’s sons are 1/2 tribes each which equals 1 tribe, hence the 12 tribes stated by God.
 
bytheblood said:
" And the King shall answer and say unto them Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these MY BRETHREN, ye have done it unto me". Matt.25:40. Just curious, but was Jesus talking only about those that believed Him to be the Messiah or to the Jewish people in general? Are those that didn't receive Him no longer His brethren? I know that the Jewish people who don't receive Jesus as their savior won't be saved, but until then, they are still the apple of God's eye. They are the natural, we are the ingrafted. We Gentile believers are Abraham's seed because the Seed dwells in us, else we'd be seeds. It seems, although I agree with most of your post, that the " replacement theologists " would make the same claims. We must keep in mind that Jesus, " the same yesterday to day and forever " Heb. 13:8, is still Jewish.
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So flesh and blood CAN inherit the kingdom of God?
 
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TrutherMom said:
what if all the fighting in the ME, and the division of the land over there was completely un necessary. What if where we are told gods holy land, the yore Jerusalem is, isn’t where it really is. What if Satan has deceived the whole world and put the name Israel on a completely different location. I believe the Bible tells us that he has done exactly that. The true Israel is not where we are told it is. |
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Ik the Middle East is the correct location, but I’m just curious as to where you think Israel was located?
 
Maybe he's referring to heavenly Jerusalem. God calls what the world calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Maybe he's referring to heavenly Jerusalem. God calls what the world calls Jerusalem, Sodom and Egypt

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8​
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Yep, but I think she was questioning the actual location.
 
Aaron56 said:
So flesh and blood CAN inherit the kingdom of God?
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No it can’t!!

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭50‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
TruthDefender said:
No it can’t!!

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭50‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
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Of course. It was rhetorical.

The Seed was never natural. The Seed is Christ. Christ is a spiritual title. He He has always been spiritual and incorruptible.
 
TruthDefender said:
Which is what I said…..
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Let me rephrase my question. I think she's questioning if true Israel is where ancient Israel was. No one of any intelligence can question where ancient Israel was. So possibly she's talking about true Israel as being scattered all over the earth and in heaven.
 
It was prophesied that Gentiles would be called by the name Israel, foretelling the inclusion of the them into Elect Israel Isa 44:5

5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

This is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promises to include Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This is linked to Isa 44:1-4

Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.

That's why the Spirit came as the blessing of Abraham upon the Gentiles Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So Gentiles can call themselves Israel as Per Isa 44:5

5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

This is a Spiritual reality, nothing to do with the natural. 9
 
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