Acts 2:38 Comparison: Evangelical vs. Oneness / Baptismal-Regeneration View

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@LightBearer316 tell us what your thoughts are on John Calvin. I didn't realize he was such a murderer

'Bernard Cottret, a university professor in France, wrote a book titled, Calvin: A Biography in which he clearly shows his admiration for Calvin on several levels. Thus, given that Cottret is not what you would call a critic of Calvin, it lends credibility to the more than 36* executions with which Calvin was directly or indirectly involved that are recorded in the book.

*Some resources regarding the Calvin-related executions have given numbers as high as 58.

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearc...e-he-got-his-theology-and-his-manner-of-life/



It’s clear @ChristRoseFromTheDead's not accustomed to real challenge. For too long he’s been allowed to post unchecked—spreading bad theology without correction. Now that someone is finally measuring his claims against Scripture, he’s outraged. But that’s what happens when error meets truth—false confidence always trembles in the light.

His modus operandi is textbook: deflect with name-calling, hide behind ad hominem attacks, and label anyone who presses him as a “Calvinist,” “sophist,” “casuist,” or whatever convenient “-ist” fits the moment. When substance runs out, slander takes its place. It only exposes his true character and the reality of his so-called Christian walk.

Grace and Peace
 
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It’s clear @ChristRoseFromTheDead's not accustomed to real challenge. For too long he’s been allowed to post unchecked—spreading bad theology without correction. Now that someone is finally measuring his claims against Scripture, he’s outraged. But that’s what happens when error meets truth—false confidence always trembles in the light.

His modus operandi is textbook: deflect with name-calling, hide behind ad hominem attacks, and label anyone who presses him as a “Calvinist,” “sophist,” “casuist,” or whatever convenient “-ist” fits the moment. When substance runs out, slander takes its place. It only exposes his true character and the reality of his so-called Christian walk.

Grace and Peace

Behold an individual so scared of being exposed that he can't even answer a simple question about his opinion on Calvin; so hypocritical that he makes accusations of labeling, and then tries to smear with labels; so hungry for preeminence that he spends inordinate energy on belittling and demonizing someone who opposes his teachings; so wicked in heart that he sows division disguised as godly concern; so hypocritically self-righteous that he accuses someone of ad hominem while engaging in ad hominem.
 
Behold an individual so scared of being exposed that he can't even answer a simple question about his opinion on Calvin; so hypocritical that he makes accusations of labeling, and then tries to smear with labels; so hungry for preeminence that he spends inordinate energy on belittling and demonizing someone who opposes his teachings; so wicked in heart that he sows division disguised as godly concern; so hypocritically self-righteous that he accuses someone of ad hominem while engaging in ad hominem.

I have also been tempted to reply with ad hominems instead of staying focused on the issues.
Thus, as a fellow-sinner may I recommend a reset? What is the point being disputed, anyway?
 
What is the point being disputed, anyway?

Essentially, is water baptism man's act of faith through which God spiritually circumcises, or is it merely a symbolic commemoration of spiritual circumcision. Thus far everything I've read in scripture points to the former, whereas the OP believes the latter.
 
Behold an individual so scared of being exposed that he can't even answer a simple question about his opinion on Calvin; so hypocritical that he makes accusations of labeling, and then tries to smear with labels; so hungry for preeminence that he spends inordinate energy on belittling and demonizing someone who opposes his teachings; so wicked in heart that he sows division disguised as godly concern; so hypocritically self-righteous that he accuses someone of ad hominem while engaging in ad hominem.

Brother, I’ve already stated many times — I’m not a Calvinist, nor do I follow any “-ism.” My loyalty is to Christ and Scripture alone.

It seems that when biblical arguments can’t be refuted with Scripture, the fallback is to assign labels and attack motives. That isn’t discernment — that’s deflection.

Let’s keep the focus where it belongs: on the Word of God, not personalities. If something I’ve said is unbiblical, show it from Scripture and I’ll gladly correct it. But if all you can offer is accusation and name-calling, then that speaks for itself.

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thess. 5:21 KJV)​

Grace and peace — still measured by the Word, not by labels.
 
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Brother, I’ve already stated many times — I’m not a Calvinist, nor do I follow any “-ism.” My loyalty is to Christ and Scripture alone.

The question is how was your theological view formed. I asked you if you went to seminary or bible college, and if so which one(s), but you refuse to answer
 
I have also been tempted to reply with ad hominems instead of staying focused on the issues.
Thus, as a fellow-sinner may I recommend a reset? What is the point being disputed, anyway?

ChristRoseFromTheDead said: Essentially, is water baptism man's act of faith through which God spiritually circumcises, or is it merely a symbolic commemoration of spiritual circumcision. Thus far everything I've read in scripture points to the former, whereas the OP believes the latter.

It’s difficult to have a genuine scriptural discussion with him because instead of engaging the biblical points, he resorts to calling me things like a Calvinist, casuist, or sophist, et al.
When someone abandons Scripture and turns to name-calling, it usually means they’ve run out of sound arguments. My goal has never been to win an argument — only to stay true to the Word of God.
“But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.” (Titus 3:9 KJV)​

Essentially, is water baptism man's act of faith through which God spiritually circumcises, or is it merely a symbolic commemoration of spiritual circumcision. Thus far everything I've read in scripture points to the former, whereas the OP believes the latter

As for what he wrote, I'll respond with that’s a fair framing of the question, but the answer is found in the order Scripture consistently presents.

Spiritual circumcision (the “putting off of the body of sins”) happens by the Spirit, through faith, before the outward act:

“In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands… by the circumcision of Christ.” (Col. 2:11)​

Paul says it’s “without hands” — meaning not through a physical act, but by God Himself when a person believes.
Baptism then follows as the public declaration of that inward reality:

“Having believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.” (Eph. 1:13)​

It’s the same pattern everywhere in Acts — people believe the gospel, receive the Spirit, and then are baptized as a testimony of that faith (Acts 10:44–48).

So yes, baptism is deeply meaningful — but it pictures the spiritual circumcision already accomplished by Christ, not the means by which it happens.
Faith brings salvation; baptism proclaims it.

Grace and peace in the risen Lord.
 
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Essentially, is water baptism man's act of faith through which God spiritually circumcises, or is it merely a symbolic commemoration of spiritual circumcision. Thus far everything I've read in scripture points to the former, whereas the OP believes the latter.

Well, as you probably know, I vote with the symbolic group (which agrees with my Baptist upbringing)
per the following reasoning and Scripture:

Judaizers, Sabbatarians and Actsists

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith.”

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision (PT), and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). We can see this indicated by Hebrews 8:13, which says the new covenant supersedes or makes obsolete the old covenant, including the ceremonial washings (baptisms).

Then, like now, the rite of WB is rightly performed as an apt or good way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as PT was not required for salvation either (per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1). WB replaced PT in the NT church per Col. 2:11-12, which says, “In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a PT done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ (SB), having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” Surely Paul did not mean to suggest that WB done by the hands of men is salvific!
 
Well, as you probably know, I vote with the symbolic group (which agrees with my Baptist upbringing)
per the following reasoning and Scripture:

Judaizers, Sabbatarians and Actsists

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith.”

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

However, some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”). The book of Acts does not teach foundational Christian doctrine but merely records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision (PT), and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). We can see this indicated by Hebrews 8:13, which says the new covenant supersedes or makes obsolete the old covenant, including the ceremonial washings (baptisms).

Then, like now, the rite of WB is rightly performed as an apt or good way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as PT was not required for salvation either (per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1). WB replaced PT in the NT church per Col. 2:11-12, which says, “In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a PT done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ (SB), having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” Surely Paul did not mean to suggest that WB done by the hands of men is salvific!
Was this generated by Ai. The new mantra now is anything that has decent formatting or proper grammar must be AI-generated.:ROFL:
 
It’s difficult to have a genuine scriptural discussion with him because instead of engaging the biblical points, he resorts to calling me things like a Calvinist, casuist, or sophist, et al.

Your writing style is a good example of casuistry, ergo you are a casuist. Your ideas are Calvinist, so whether you like the label or not, it's an accurate representation of what you teach
 
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Was this generated by Ai. The new mantra now is anything that has decent formatting or proper grammar must be AI-generated.:ROFL:

No, I wrote it as a response to the Actsists I have been encountering on CC the past few weeks
and recently added it to Part VI in Lesson 2 of our website, much to their chagrin no doubt. :mad:
 
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Your writing style is a good example of casuistry, ergo you are a casuist. Your ideas are Calvinist, so whether you like the label or not, it's an accurate representation of what you teach

I can tell from your writing style that you’re a vegetarian and have improper thoughts often.
Your writing style also reveals a tendency to steal things and be untruthful. :ROFL:

See how ridiculous that sounds?
That’s exactly what your “casuist/Calvinist-by-writing-style” logic amounts to.
 
I can tell from your writing style that you’re a vegetarian and have improper thoughts often.
Your writing style also reveals a tendency to steal things and be untruthful. :ROFL:

See how ridiculous that sounds?
That’s exactly what your “casuist/Calvinist-by-writing-style” logic amounts to.

Even in this you can't avoid casuistry. To your mind it appears to be logical and rational, but the two are not even close in comparison. Casuistry is specious or excessively subtle reasoning intended to rationalize or mislead. That describes your writing style perfectly. But my writing style reflects vegetarianism? You're ridiculous.
 
You may reject the label, but your ideas are Calvinist
Labels don’t determine truth — Scripture does.
If something I’ve said aligns with the Bible, it isn’t “Calvinist,” it’s simply biblical.
And if it doesn’t align with Scripture, then it should be rejected no matter whose system it sounds like.
Let’s stay focused on the Word, not on categories invented by men.


Grace and peace.
 
Even in this you can't avoid casuistry. To your mind it appears to be logical and rational, but the two are not even close in comparison. Casuistry is specious or excessively subtle reasoning intended to rationalize or mislead. That describes your writing style perfectly. But my writing style reflects vegetarianism? You're ridiculous.

That’s precisely my point — you’re proving it again.
Instead of discussing Scripture, you’ve shifted the focus to labels, tone, and wordplay.
If you truly believe my reasoning is “specious,” then show where it contradicts Scripture. Otherwise, your response is just another diversion.

I’ll keep standing on the Word — not on definitions or rhetoric.

“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isa. 8:20 KJV)​

Grace and peace.
 
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