Why are so many Christians still so confused about the afterlife?

[Nehemiah6]

PART I

One of the most misunderstood doctrines in Christendom is the doctrine of the afterlife. And part of the reason for this is that the Hebrew and Greek words Sheol, Hades, and Tartarus were all translated as either “hell” or “the grave” by the King James translators. Had they simply transliterated them, much confusion could have been avoided. Therefore the correct word has been inserted in the quotations from the King James Bible (shown below).

Many people believe that no one goes to Heaven after they die, even if they are saved. Many others believe that souls sleep in the ground six feet under the soil. Many others believe that Christians go to Purgatory until they are prayed out of it. Many believe that people are simply annihilated in the end. Many others think that there is no eternal Hell. All of this is because many groups have promoted false doctrines about these matters for a long time, and people have failed to examine them carefully. Behind all this is Satan, who loves to sow spiritual confusion, and does not want people to see the reality of Hell.

However, there is no need to be confused if we take all the relevant Scriptures into account and see what God and Christ have revealed to us, since only they know what is true and what is false about the afterlife. So what the Bible says -- rightly divided -- is all that matters.

A. Physical death
When people die, their souls and spirits are separated from their bodies, and the bodies are buried in graves: And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. (Gen 35:18,19). It should be noted that many pagan religions either burn the bodies of the deceased, or give them to the carrion to be consumed. But Christians are to be buried, not cremated like the pagans. Also, the spirits of unbelievers are already dead “in trespasses and sins”, so only their souls go to Sheol/Hades. But the spirits of believers are alive, and very closely associated with their souls (though distinct from each other). Thus souls and spirits stay together.

B. All souls went to Sheol/Hades before Christ’s resurrection
I said,“In the prime of my life I shall go to the gates of Sheol; I am deprived of the remainder of my years.” (the words of Hezekiah in Isaiah 38:10 NKJV). Unfortunately, the KJV has “the grave” for “Sheol”, which has led to a lot of confusion. Sheol may literally have gates, since Christ spoke of “the gates of Hades” (which is the Greek word for “Sheol”). Sheol/Hades is located near the core of the earth (called “the heart of the earth” or “the lower parts of the earth”).

C. Both the righteous and the unrighteous went to Sheol from the beginning
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom [in Sheol/Hades]: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in Sheol/Hades he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24)

D. Christ was in Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights
This is rather important, since it establishes the reality of Sheol/Hades. He had already prophesied that He would be there. He had also prophetically stated that He would not be there for more than three days and three nights. Then Peter revealed that while He was there He preached to the spirits in prison (since Sheol/Hades was indeed a prison for souls and spirits).

1. Christ prophesied about being in Sheol/Hades
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Mt 12:39,40) While Jonah was in the whale’s belly, his soul and spirit were in Sheol: And [Jonah] said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of Sheol שְׁא֛וֹל cried I, and thou heardest my voice. (Jonah 2:2)
2. Christ would not be in Sheol/Hades beyond three days and three nights
This is what Christ said through David about 1,000 years before He died: For thou wilt not leave my soul in Sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10). Peter quoted this verse from David and confirmed that it was fulfilled at the resurrection: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption... He [David] seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades, neither his flesh did see corruption. (Acts 2:27,31)
3. Christ preached to the spirits in prison while in Sheol/Hades
While the body of Jesus lay in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, He proclaimed to the spirits in Sheol/Hades His victory at the cross (1 Peter 3:18,19): For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Since no one can be saved after they die (Heb 9:27), Christ did not preach the Gospel of salvation in Sheol/Hades. That word “preached” means “proclaimed”, so what else would Christ have proclaimed other than His victory over sin, death, Hades, Hell, Satan, and all his evil spirits? This victory would include the removal of the saints from Sheol/Hades to Paradise in the New Jerusalem. Thus the gates of Hades would not prevail against the Church.

 

[Nehemiah6]

PART II
E. The righteous dead went to Heaven from Sheol/Hades at Christ’s resurrection
We know from the above historical narrative (not a parable) that there was a “great gulf” or huge chasm fixed between the righteous and the unrighteous dead. However, at the time of the resurrection of Christ, all the righteous dead (the OT saints) were taken by Christ to Heaven: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:8-10) This is confirmed in Hebrews 12:22-24 where the OT saints are called “the spirits of just men made perfect” and found in the New Jerusalem.

F. Since the resurrection all the New Testament saints go directly to Heaven
The example of the first martyr -- Stephen -- is sufficient to establish the fact that when the saints are buried their souls and spirits go directly to Heaven, not six feet under the soil (Acts 7:55-60;8:1,2): But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [died]. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

In view of this here is what Paul said to Christians: Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. (2 Cor 5:6-8)

G. The Bible shows that both OT and NT saints are now in Heaven
One of the most significant passages in the Bible which is generally overlooked is Hebrews 12:22-24. It shows us all the occupants of the New Jerusalem at the present time: But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

There are two groups of saints shown here in the New Jerusalem: (1) the NT saints described as the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and (2) the OT saints, described as the spirits of just men made perfect. So all the saints are very much awake and alive in Heaven, and are in fact called “a great cloud of witnesses” (Heb 12:1)

H. The unrighteous dead in Sheol/Hades will face the Second Death
Those who are presently in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected at the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29), then judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, then cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death (Rev 20). But God does not want anyone to face the Second Death, and that is why the Gospel is to be preached in all the world and to “every creature” (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15,16):

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death and Hades are personified in this passage ,and when they are “cast into the Lake of Fire” it means that they are terminated. That is the end of death and Hades. But as we can see there is eternal torment in Hell: and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

PART II
E. The righteous dead went to Heaven from Sheol/Hades at Christ’s resurrection
We know from the above historical narrative (not a parable) that there was a “great gulf” or huge chasm fixed between the righteous and the unrighteous dead. However, at the time of the resurrection of Christ, all the righteous dead (the OT saints) were taken by Christ to Heaven: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph 4:8-10) This is confirmed in Hebrews 12:22-24 where the OT saints are called “the spirits of just men made perfect” and found in the New Jerusalem.

F. Since the resurrection all the New Testament saints go directly to Heaven
The example of the first martyr -- Stephen -- is sufficient to establish the fact that when the saints are buried their souls and spirits go directly to Heaven, not six feet under the soil (Acts 7:55-60;8:1,2): But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [died]. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

In view of this here is what Paul said to Christians: Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. (2 Cor 5:6-8)

G. The Bible shows that both OT and NT saints are now in Heaven
One of the most significant passages in the Bible which is generally overlooked is Hebrews 12:22-24. It shows us all the occupants of the New Jerusalem at the present time: But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

There are two groups of saints shown here in the New Jerusalem: (1) the NT saints described as the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and (2) the OT saints, described as the spirits of just men made perfect. So all the saints are very much awake and alive in Heaven, and are in fact called “a great cloud of witnesses” (Heb 12:1)

H. The unrighteous dead in Sheol/Hades will face the Second Death
Those who are presently in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected at the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29), then judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, then cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death (Rev 20). But God does not want anyone to face the Second Death, and that is why the Gospel is to be preached in all the world and to “every creature” (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15,16):

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death and Hades are personified in this passage ,and when they are “cast into the Lake of Fire” it means that they are terminated. That is the end of death and Hades. But as we can see there is eternal torment in Hell: and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.

some people look at it like a threat but I see it as God speaking to us because he knows what’s ahead of we don’t repent he’s actually telling us the truth so if we believe we can escape and be saved

 

[studentoftheword]

I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.

I totally agree with this ----I think the teaching of the truth in our Churches today is gone by the way side and many like to Sugar Coat the real truth of where unbelievers go when they pass on -----and the family and friends of that passed on person think because they were a good person that they are in Heaven -----that is in many churches what is being taught -----and this is dangerous teaching -----

Sugar Coating Scripture is bad for the soul ----Preaching Truth is what we really need to be doing but I believe the upper echelon of the Church has squashed a lot of Ministers ---Preachers --- from Preaching the truth because they are sacred that they will loose their people and their money will stop coming in -----so Sugar Coating and Soft preaching is the Norm -----the hard parts of Scripture get put aside and are hid under the table ------due to Fear----which comes from MR Satan Himself ---duping people out of the Truth -----


------

 

[Aerials1978]

I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.

some people look at it like a threat but I see it as God speaking to us because he knows what’s ahead of we don’t repent he’s actually telling us the truth so if we believe we can escape and be saved

I know that there be many that I love whom will not be brought into the Kingdom. I know that the Lord is fair and just and gives to everyone according to their deeds. Trying to look at eternity from human perspective is beyond comprehension.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I totally agree with this ----I think the teaching of the truth in our Churches today is gone by the way side and many like to Sugar Coat the real truth of where unbelievers go when they pass on -----and the family and friends of that passed on person think because they were a good person that they are in Heaven -----that is in many churches what is being taught -----and this is dangerous teaching -----

Sugar Coating Scripture is bad for the soul ----Preaching Truth is what we really need to be doing but I believe the upper echelon of the Church has squashed a lot of Ministers ---Preachers --- from Preaching the truth because they are sacred that they will loose their people and their money will stop coming in -----so Sugar Coating and Soft preaching is the Norm -----the hard parts of Scripture get put aside and are hid under the table ------due to Fear----which comes from MR Satan Himself ---duping people out of the Truth -----


View attachment 234627------View attachment 234628

yes I agree we really just need to share the gospel Jesus taught with everyone who will hear and he will bring the minds of believers to freedom and truth I think it’s hard for people to realize this situation people are in

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭

Only the truth is going to set us free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I know that there be many that I love whom will not be brought into the Kingdom. I know that the Lord is fair and just and gives to everyone according to their deeds. Trying to look at eternity from human perspective is beyond comprehension.

yes I think it’s very relevant to know also that hell isnt the end hell will be destroyed d the people in hell resurrected to face the judgement of Christ

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after that the eternal Places come whether the lake of fire or the new heaven and earth.

 

[walter549]

Starting with Genesis 3:19 "until you return to the ground, since you were taken from it. For you are dust, and you will return to dust.”

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
New King James Version

Brenton Septuagint Translation The Septuagint Lxx Bible is the scriptures in Greek which dates before the first century.
Psalms 37:29 "But the righteous shall inherit the earth, and dwell upon it for ever".
Psalms 37:11 "But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

John 12:48
The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day. New American Standard Bible

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. King James Bible

....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Luke12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. King James Bible

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
King James Bible

Jesus also says: And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are partners with those called to heaven, think carefully about this Jesus whom we declare to be God’s messenger and High Priest. Hebrews 3:1 New living Translation

Lu 22:28-30
28 You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. NIV

Rev 20:5-6
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over these; they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for [the] thousand years. New American Bible

Summary for those who sleep: "those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake" "the righteous shall inherit the earth, and dwell upon it for ever" "will judge him on the last day"

Summary for the little flock who goes to Heaven: "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom"
"We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" "so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are partners with those called to heaven" "And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." "Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over these; they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for [the] thousand years."

Scripture "context" alone for our understanding.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Confused about "afterlife"?:
Because There's:

'Confusion' of What Death Is...

Amen!

 

[walter549]

Confused about "afterlife"?:
Because There's:

'Confusion' of What Death Is...

Amen!

... Forgot my thought sorry

 

[walter549]

Isn't this important, that we love Jesus and his Father with all our Heart, that we use God's word the Bible sincerely to the best of our ability and we have Christian Love for one another?

Most of us believe in an afterlife, in the past God has used angels to unite his people, don't you feel that we will all be much more united in the next life?

 

[GWH]

I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.

some people look at it like a threat but I see it as God speaking to us because he knows what’s ahead of we don’t repent he’s actually telling us the truth so if we believe we can escape and be saved

Re "I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.": I think you hit the nail on the head, and it was difficult for me to accept because of those who taught that someone who never had the opportunity to be saved would suffer torture in hell for eternity.

Fortunately I had the good sense to search the Scriptures and learn that God is loving and just, so hell will be only as hot and long as justice requires, which might be close to forever for folks like Hitler and Stalin. The longer version is this:

The Bible also teaches that God is justness or righteousness (Rom. 3:25-26, 9:14, 2Thes. 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (Josh. 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (Isa. 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (Rom. 2:24, 2Pet. 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic is explained in Lesson 2 entitled “The Christian Creed”, but it begins by believing that a person should triangulate from two key NT teachings in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:

First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11, Acts 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).

Evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

 

[Solitude]

Re "I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.": I think you hit the nail on the head, and it was difficult for me to accept because of those who taught that someone who never had the opportunity to be saved would suffer torture in hell for eternity.

Fortunately I had the good sense to search the Scriptures and learn that God is loving and just, so hell will be only as hot and long as justice requires, which might be close to forever for folks like Hitler and Stalin. The longer version is this:

The Bible also teaches that God is justness or righteousness (Rom. 3:25-26, 9:14, 2Thes. 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (Josh. 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (Isa. 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (Rom. 2:24, 2Pet. 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic is explained in Lesson 2 entitled “The Christian Creed”, but it begins by believing that a person should triangulate from two key NT teachings in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:

First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11, Acts 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).

Evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

Does anybody really teach that everybody does not have the opportunity to be saved?

 

[GWH]

Does anybody really teach that everybody does not have the opportunity to be saved?

Tulipism does.

 

[Solitude]

Tulipism does.

Can you prove it?

 

[tablet123]

Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.

Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Hell is in the lower parts of the earth.

So the soul of the wicked are there.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Psa 35:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.

Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

These people are not annihilated when they go to hell for there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Which gnashing of teeth is not actual teeth but words used in cursing and going against a person.

Which the wicked will curse God and insult Him.

They are cast in to outer darkness for they will be isolated from the rest because they did not love people which qualifies a person to be with God for love is the fulfilling of the law.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Their worm shall not die which means they will feel the affects of the body for eternity and will feel the fire as the flesh shall feel the fire.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The wicked that took the mark of the beast will have the harshest punishment.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots.

Death and hell are in the lower parts of the earth and the earth shall be thrown in to the lake of fire.

All sin must be purged by fire and since they are wicked forever they will be purged with fire.

The saints are baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Re "I think some people find it hard to accept having lost people who may not have believed so it’s a hard thing to accept.": I think you hit the nail on the head, and it was difficult for me to accept because of those who taught that someone who never had the opportunity to be saved would suffer torture in hell for eternity.

Fortunately I had the good sense to search the Scriptures and learn that God is loving and just, so hell will be only as hot and long as justice requires, which might be close to forever for folks like Hitler and Stalin. The longer version is this:

The Bible also teaches that God is justness or righteousness (Rom. 3:25-26, 9:14, 2Thes. 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (Josh. 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (Isa. 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (Rom. 2:24, 2Pet. 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic is explained in Lesson 2 entitled “The Christian Creed”, but it begins by believing that a person should triangulate from two key NT teachings in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:

First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11, Acts 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).

Evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

Yeah you could have some good points I don’t really know honestly how long a sinner will suffer for which sins or anything like that. But I agree that Gods character and plan land he himself, God , is just and operates justly and has promised mankind justice but then also mercy and forgivness through the name of his son Jesus Christ. That part is the key to everything we can possibly hope for that mercy he has given us by the body and blood and by the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins.

A lot of people can’t place perfect justice in other words . People can’t put this concept of justice and accountability even responsability

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this concept ,

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21‬ ‭

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

“I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-43‬ ‭

i think often people choose one concept or the other either “ I believe and am forgiven forever and can’t be judged for anything I do” or I need to be perfect because it’s just me and what I do that matters regarding my judgement and salvation “

But really mercy is the only way we can be saved the mercy found in the gospel and the righteousness Jesus imparts to those who listen to and follow after his ways in the gospel. Only faith in Jesus who is the gift of Gods grace towards mankind , can save a person from death …. And it can save anyone who believes the gospel.

Also I think it’s notable that hell is temporary and has its purpose before and until the resurrection of the dead and judgement …..and then after that …. The lake of fire has its purpose being the second death after the resurrection of those who had been in hell and also those in the grave.

So this day

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That concept of two deaths is really simple .

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We live on earth a short time and then we die once and after this we will be raised up again and judged either for eternal life in gods kingdom the new heaven and earth . Or for the condemnation those cast into the lake of fire the second death

If someone strikes me and knocks my tooth out. Exact and perfect Justice demands a blow to take thier tooth in order to be fulfilled.


mercy being introduced to the equation changes that factor completely. If I choose mercy and turn the other cheek. It doesn’t demand retaliation it doesnt even require it . Justice can’t remit sin or even pay the price to a degree because sin requires death it’s a simple transaction the wages of sin equals certain death . And so all along patterns of Jesus lifeblood through sacrificial lambs and goats and bulls have pointed forward to the shedding of his blood of remission through his act of sacrificial live towards all mankind . That fountain of mercy and grace and well of salvation he’s called us to come forth and drink of has come to all

 

[GWH]

Can you prove it?

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation. (Matt. 7:7, Rom. 1:20, 2:5, 3:22-28)

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance,
because God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell. (Matt. 4:17, 7:21, John 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:6, 1John 3:23)

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls. (Rom. 3:22-26, 5:18, 2Cor. 5:14-19,
Heb. 2:14-17, 1John 2:2)

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved. (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37,
1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, 2Pet. 3:9)

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy,
because God perseveres in keeping them saved. (Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Gal. 5:4, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12,
Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10)

 

[Solitude]

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation. (Matt. 7:7, Rom. 1:20, 2:5, 3:22-28)

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance,
because God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell. (Matt. 4:17, 7:21, John 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:6, 1John 3:23)

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls. (Rom. 3:22-26, 5:18, 2Cor. 5:14-19,
Heb. 2:14-17, 1John 2:2)

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved. (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37,
1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, 2Pet. 3:9)

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy,
because God perseveres in keeping them saved. (Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Gal. 5:4, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12,
Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10)

Luke 13:3
No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.

 

[Dino246]

Luke 13:3
No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.

That translation is incorrect. The words “do penance” are properly translated, “repent”.