Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Where do you find this in the verse?
Did they pass the suffering test also?


You are lost.

You need to get yourself alone and away from others after you find a genuinely good teacher for once.

As of now?
You have nothing substantial to think a correct thought with!
And, I am not going to join you in your erroneous way of thinking.

I am through trying to correct you.
 
You are lost.

You need to get yourself alone and away from others after you find a genuinely good teacher for once.

As of now?
You have nothing substantial to think a correct thought with!
And, I am not going to join you in your erroneous way of thinking.

I am through trying to correct you.
You never should have attempted to correct truth to begin with.
 
Are you saying here that sinners are powerless to restrain the flesh (their own sin nature)?

And you also seem to be saying that if God did not begin the work of salvation, no one would be able to "begin to believe"?

Finally, who completes the salvation that God sovereignly began?

The same answer applies to the angels that refused to go with Satan.
Do you know what that was?
 
You never should have attempted to correct truth to begin with.


Your only option now is to try to wear me out by clinging and trying to bite through my boots at my ankles.
You better pray I do not walk into water, or start running.

You have no answers.
 
From2-Timothy1-8b-9.png

From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Another passage I love! How was this grace "given us" before the beginning of time? It was given to our Corporate Head! To our Federal Head on our behalf. It was given in the Last Adam.
 
It has been given onto to you to believe.
Why?
Because?
You passed the test God had you go through in his drawing you.

No. No test passed. Because He wanted to and for no other reason, and that's all that matters.
 
The same answer applies to the angels that refused to go with Satan.
Do you know what that was?

Nope I don't know, nor do I care about fallen angels. I want answers, please, to the three specific questions I asked.

You must be finding it very difficult these days to defend your FWT with straightforward answers, heh?

So, here are the questions again from 19, 980:

Are you saying here that sinners are powerless to restrain the flesh (their own sin nature)?

And you also seem to be saying that if God did not begin the work of salvation, no one would be able to "begin to believe"?

Finally, who completes the salvation that God sovereignly began?
 
Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us
to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace.
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time. 2 Timothy 1:8b-9 .
Still suffering?

How long you been saved?

Something is very wrong.

And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory
in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you." 1 Peter 5:10​

You should be walking in happiness and abundance with life by now!

False doctrine turns us into spiritual retards.
One never matures into happiness God wants to see us having.
 
Your only option now is to try to wear me out by clinging and trying to bite through my boots at my ankles.
You better pray I do not walk into water, or start running.

You have no answers.
Actually, it is you who has nothing to say. That's why you have resorted to childish and insulting responses. Even when I asked for clarification, crickets.
 
Nope I don't know, nor do I care about fallen angels. I want answers, please, to the three specific questions I asked.

What good are answers if you will not know what to do with them?
You have proven yourself being spiritually challenged.

May I suggest?

Go start a gang someplace.
Then you can use your natural talents effectively.

Might even be a church...
You can keep them in line and away from sound doctrine with your natural ways.

:rolleyes: .....ten percent will not be enough for you?
 
You are lost.

You need to get yourself alone and away from others after you find a genuinely good teacher for once.

As of now?
You have nothing substantial to think a correct thought with!
And, I am not going to join you in your erroneous way of thinking.

I am through trying to correct you.

So the Living Word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit isn't cutting it for Cam, heh? He needs to find good teachers to set him straight?

You're so in love with the sons of men who are utterly untrustworthy! Why aren't you pointing people to the only trustworthy Book we have in the entire universe -- the only Source of all Truth!?
 
So the Living Word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit isn't cutting it for Cam, heh? He needs to find good teachers to set him straight?

You're so in love with the sons of men who are utterly untrustworthy! Why aren't you pointing people to the only trustworthy Book we have in the entire universe -- the only Source of all Truth!?

You are not a son of man?
If you are?
According to you?

I should not learn from you what you are trying to teach here.


You keep shooting yourself in the foot!
 
You are lost.

You need to get yourself alone and away from others after you find a genuinely good teacher for once.

As of now?
You have nothing substantial to think a correct thought with!
And, I am not going to join you in your erroneous way of thinking.

I am through trying to correct you.

So the Living Word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit isn't cutting it for Cam, heh? He needs to find good teachers to set him straight?

You're so in love with the sons of men who are utterly untrustworthy! Why aren't you pointing people to the only trustworthy Book we have in the entire universe -- the only Source of all Truth!?
 
You are not a son of man?
If you are?
According to you?

I should not learn from you what you are trying to teach here.


You keep shooting yourself in the foot!

No, I have not. I do not push extra-biblical teachers upon people. Unlike YOU, I'm a huge advocate for Sola Scriptura!
 
A quick answer to the above is that you are absolutely correct about salvation being only for those who believe, although I would have stated it as all those who truly believe have been saved, changing the sequence of cause and effect from what you've implied. But there is no doubt that true belief is foundational for those saved. I would add however that the important question that underlies belief and needs to be answered is who will believe and why will they believe? I think Titus 3:5-6 provides a foundation to help answer it. So, thank you for your replies, but you didn't address Tit 3:5-6 in them, which I thought the point of this discussion. I am well aware there are many verses which on the surface appear to say what you allege but I think for the most part, they can be refuted. The problem with that approach is that we will never reach the end of the discussion going back and forth into oblivion just to finally end back where we started. I would therefore respectfully suggest that you begin with an assessment of Titus 3:5-6 and if necessary, we can go from there. I don't think either of us wants to turn this discussion into a career.

Well, I have made the study of GW my life-long career, and since joining CC one year ago yesterday I have had to focus on Scripture that refutes tulipism, which includes a systematic study of Romans that I am sharing with you. I am sorry that you do not yet see that Romans provides context that defines Titus 3:5-6, so I will provide some more:

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off.

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e.

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7).

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit.

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost.

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place.

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ.

18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.

19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.

20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.

21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.

22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.

By applying items such as #1-7 & 11-20 (for starters) to Titus 3:4-6, we see that God's kindness/grace/mercy is meant for all sinners. Why would anyone want to refute this truth?! Yay! PTL! :love:
 
Neither one of you have appreciated anything said in this thread, because your both to busy being obsessed with this tulip and this Calvinism thing.

Your both clearly obsessed with it for the wrong reasons, so much so your both rejecting scripture after scripture,

The devil has you both where he wants you,


Timothy Charged to Oppose False Teachers
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith.

Advancing Gods work is by his faith, that he gives to people, you don't advance his work by wrongly accusing people, neither do you advance his work by wrongly disagreeing with scripture.

The faith that he gives to people holds his permissive will within the faith he gives you


This is why his faith here teaches not to persist in imaginary babblings,

Which is what you've both been doing everyday here and have done for far to long, despite being told otherwise you still both persist, using every word of God to oppose bad readings of a tulip doctrine that the people your accusing on a daily bases are not doing what your accusing them of. People who have miss used tulip are probably by people like yourselves who will not listen.

Despite being told over and over again to stop you two along with cv5 and heishere have continued to hate every good word spoken by good people here,. on the bases you have down as this evil calvinistic person.

You are all really totally disrespectful

Ok got it. You can't take a hint and you don't know what TULIP means.

Have a nice Day. :)
 
And while we discussing the God's teachings in Romans, here is a poem (and song) I made for y'all:

“From Paul to the Proud”
(A poetic paraphrase of Romans 1:1-2:9a)

From Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, An apostle—called by the Lord,
Chosen to preach the gospel, foretold By prophets in the Holy Word.
Jesus was born a descendant of David, But rose from the dead as God’s Son,
An act of great power to prove Him divine— From Him I received a commission . . .
To lead all the world to believe and obey, Including you living in Rome,
Whom God also loves and calls to be saved, And with Jesus to make your new home.

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ Grant you peace and grace.
I thank them for you, because the whole world Is hearing that faith you embrace.
The God whom I serve with all of my heart Is witness that when I pray
I always remember you, hoping that He Will let me come see you some day.
I long to be with you and share by the Spirit The faith that will help us be strong.
My brothers, how often I’ve planned to come, But something has always gone wrong.

How eager I am to evangelize you In fulfillment of my obligations
To preach the good news to all kinds of people In all of the Gentile nations.
For I’m not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, Which has the power to save
All who believe, whether Gentile or Jew, Though once of Satan a slave.
It is written, the just shall live by faith, But the wages of sin is death,
Which is poured out on all who deny what is plain: That God has given them breath.

God punishes them because they are evil And blind to what clearly is true—
The fact of creation confronting them always No matter what they say and do.
They think themselves wise, while in truth they are fools And have no excuse at all.
Refusing to honor the power of God, They stumble in darkness and fall.
Exchanging the truth about God for a lie, They worship and serve only dust
That is made in the image of man and machine, Perverting true love into lust.

Burning with passion and shameful desires, Consumed by unnatural sex acts,
Men still choose to suffer and torture each other Rather than face the facts.
And yet God allows them to break all the rules: To murder, to hate, and to lie.
They invent new sins, while all the time knowing That demons deserve to die.

Do you, so proud, think you’re less to blame, While sitting in judgment on others?
Surely you see God’s mercy is meant For those who become Jesus’ brothers.
But you, hard-hearted, closed-minded and proud, Will one day God’s justice be meted.
When eternal life is awarded believers, Damned will be those He defeated!
 
Nope I don't know, nor do I care about fallen angels. I want answers, please, to the three specific questions I asked.
You must be finding it very difficult these days to defend your FWT with straightforward answers, heh?
So, here are the questions again from 19, 980:
Are you saying here that sinners are powerless to restrain the flesh (their own sin nature)?
And you also seem to be saying that if God did not begin the work of salvation, no one would be able to "begin to believe"?
Finally, who completes the salvation that God sovereignly began?
from-Hebrews12-1-3vs.png

Hebrews 12 verses 1-3 ~ Let us run with endurance the race set out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, Who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider Him Who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
 
Ok got it. You can't take a hint and you don't know what TULIP means.

Have a nice Day. :)
I'm not as interested in tulip as you are or your husband genez or your other colleagues.

Neither am I interested in your silly immature remarks.
 
So vague?.... So abstruse!
Yet, you make it look like you had something to say.

Now, hand someone else the mic, please.

next!
I don't have anything to say to you not a word.

Because your just full of yourself