Are People More Likely to "Fall in Pain" Rather Than "Fall in Love"? How Do We Tell the Difference, and How Can We Make Better Choices?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

I've written threads about this subject before, but I'm curious to see what the current crowd has to say about it.

I've always felt that one of my callings was to try to help hurting people, and often those who have been through very intense, extreme situations. Needlessly to say, I got to a point of burning out, and I started to realize how much people in pain (including myself) often form attachments to others in pain, or those they are trying to help.

I was trying to look for a phrase that describes this but I'm not quite sure if a fitting one exists?

"Trauma Bonding" seems to be centered on unhealthy attachments in abusive relationships; "Counselor Crush" centers on situations between helpers and those being helped, but neither one is wide enough to cover the scope I'm trying to define.

Emotional pain and trauma is big business nowadays. People even monetize it on social media, putting all their problems out for the world to see, usually seeking attention and money in return. I'm not trying to sound critical or condemning of this, but I wonder about the effect it has anyone trying to find a a real, meaningful relationship that leads to marriage. We live in a world where our pain has become our identity -- and sometimes, our excuse.

Everyone has some kind of pain or trauma, but how often have we seen things such as, two people struggling with X problem joining a support group -- then wind up "falling in love" with someone who has a similar problem (such as at Alcoholics Anonymous or rehab, etc.) -- but the two wind up pulling each other into an even worse downward spiral?

Or people who have similar challenges like bipolar disorder, depression, various other mental illnesses, then bond with someone who knows what it's like because they're going through all the same things -- and the relationship turns into a disaster?

The list is endless -- people who bond through military experience and it's extremities; people who bond to their accountability partners and through histories such as abusive family backgrounds, etc.

At the time, they truly think they've "fallen in love" and have found the perfect person for them, because that person understands.
But when the newness and excitement fade away -- they're often left in an even worse situation than before the relationship began.

Is there any way to prevent this, or at least, to tread a little more carefully?

It has taken many years, but I know for me, something crucial that helped me break my own cycle was when a CC friend pointed out, "A lot of people don't actually want help -- they want attention." It got me thinking about how people might even start out wanting help, but realize it's going to take too much change and giving up things they don't want to give up -- and so attention becomes a band-aid that feels a lot better than actually putting in the work.

One thing that has really helped me is praying for discernment -- distancing myself from those who want attention, saving my efforts for those who are truly working to change -- and praying that God will smack me back into line when I'm not working hard enough on my own shortcomings as well.

This subject raises a myriad of questions:

* Why do we "fall in love" with people with shared intense situations, but when the dust settles, find out that person really wasn't good for us, or we weren't good for them, at all?

* How can we avoid intense bonding to those for the wrong reasons -- and how do we recognize what the wrong reasons are?

* How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

* How can someone bonding through a lot of trauma know they are "falling in love" rather than "falling in pain"?

* How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

I know it's a very serious subject, but I think it's important to talk about.

And I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[Magenta]

I've always felt that one of my callings was to try to help hurting people, and often those who have been through very intense, extreme situations. Needlessly to say, I got to a point of burning out, and I started to realize how much people in pain (including myself) often form attachments to others in pain, or those they are trying to help.

I was trying to look for a phrase that describes this but I'm not quite sure if a fitting one exists?

I have heard it called a trauma bond...

"Trauma Bonding" seems to be centered on unhealthy attachments in abusive relationships

Ah! I kept reading and see you know the term already....

 

[Tall_Timbers]

Two healthy people can have a lifelong wonderful relationship. When they hit a bump in the road they can work it out. If they both have Christ, life doesn't get much better than what you'll find in that marriage.

But, a good sized portion of our population suffers with some kind(s) of mental illness, addictions, etc., that will create moments when one of the two will behave destructively, often for no rhyme or reason. That scenario probably covers the majority of marriages. One of those marriages can last if one or both is willing to tough it out, but the relationship isn't going to approximate the example in the paragraph above. A healthy person often doesn't know they've married a person with mental health or other issues until after the fact. In such cases, best of wishes. Life is not going to be easy.

Then again, all things are possible in Christ.

 

[RodB651]

How can we avoid intense bonding to those for the wrong reasons -- and how do we recognize what the wrong reasons are?

A good question!
Personally, I've recognized the wrong reasons earlier on. But even then, it's hard to let go of that. You know it won't work out, but you can't make yourself walk away from it.

How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

How do we know if we are healed from whatever it was? I think that will be different for everyone. But even when we are healed, we still keep our shields on "yellow alert" just in case.

How can someone bonding through a lot of trauma know they are "falling in love" rather than "falling in pain"?

Another good question! I think that will be a difficult question to answer. Sometimes, the trauma is so much that you never quite get the clarity to know the difference.

How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

I don't know that I've helped anyone get out of these situations. I can recognize them pretty quickly though.

As to how I've gotten out of them myself, I had to learn how to look people straight in the eye and say "No". That's been the most difficult thing I've had to overcome in my life. For years, I let myself get talked in to situations that caused a lot of trouble (loss of friendships, finances, relationships, etc..) that took years to overcome. I don't mind telling people "No" now. I don't feel guilty about it either.

Good topic as always @seoulsearch !

I hope others will offer their own thoughts on this. RB

 

[Lynx]

I think most of the draw in such relationships is just "Holy crap in a can, finally someone who understands me! I don't have to DRAW A STINKING MAP every time I talk about what I'm going through! This person just straight up understands what I'm saying without a lot of energy spent defining terms!"

Then people realize that just because you're going through the same problems doesn't necessarily mean you have found any of the solutions. Two drowning people both know very well what drowning is like, but they are much more likely to pull each other under in all their flailing around to survive. Just because you understand what I'm going through doesn't mean you can actually HELP, and might mean you are even less help than someone who is not also being dragged down by the same thing.

 

[Jared_K]

There’s a lot to unpack here. But it is important that we don’t ignore the bad stuff and just focus on the good stuff. Life requires balance. If you want the summarized version...Attitude determines whether it’s a healthy or unhealthy relationship. Caution is always advised until you really get to know that person. Relationships can go well or wrong under any circumstances, there is no one-size-fits-all theory that comes with relationships. If you want more detail, keep reading.

It takes 2 years to get to know someone and 2 years after marriage to adjust to life with that person. Relationships are a two way street. If you see the person putting in effort and reciprocation, a willingness to change and grow, someone who can embrace uncertainty, and their actions are lining up with their words, or at least they’re not all talk and no action, then you have someone with a good attitude.

Caution is to keep yourself protected. He shouldn't be expected to prove that he’s husband material before she commits, and she shouldn’t be expected to prove that she’s wife material before he commits. It‘s something that should just happen from day one from both parties. In other words…put your best foot forward.

Okay, let’s break this down…

In terms of what to call it, codependency comes to mind. Codependency can also come from a relationship where one person is healthy and the other person isn’t. Healthy people with a lot of empathy feel wanted and needed when they are taking care of someone who is in need. Is codependency inherently bad or wrong? No. It CAN be if it’s unbalanced or extreme. Unbalanced meaning they are more focused on taking care of someone else’s needs while neglecting their own. Extreme being behaviors like lack of boundaries, fear of abandonment, resentment, etc. The truth is, shared trauma builds deeper connections, even if the trauma wasn’t experienced at the same time. We all suffer from something, and finding someone who suffers similarly to what you’re going through can lead to a powerful connection because you two are in the same boat.. Whether it’s good or bad depends on the attitude of the person.

Whether this neediness comes from wanting attention or genuinely needing help again falls into attitude. Someone who just wants someone to wait on them hand and foot, get the help they need (say a physical therapist for example) and they are constantly canceling or not doing what they’re supposed to do to get better, they aren’t interested in eating the foods that will keep them healthy or making any effort or showing any appreciation for these things and they’re not trying to reciprocate what you’re doing for them, that’s attention, not love. And this attitude is not something that pops up in a day and is gone in a month, we all have our bad days. It’s something that consistently happens for years with no signs of change.

There’s a man who went on social media to basically declare that he was ugly, lonely and depressed. One comment changed his life forever. That comment was a simple “I actually think you’re kind of cute tbh. I mean it.” They’re happily married and I think they have a child now. Was he suffering? Yes. Lonely? Absolutely. Lucky? Tremendously. And I can tell you why. It’s because he wholeheartedly appreciates what fell into his lap. He has a great attitude about it and she loves him. They both have good hearts and it’s amazing to see something like that happen in this day and age. Does that mean that all men (or women) suffering from loneliness and depression are going to be a good match? No.

“At the time, they truly think they've "fallen in love" and have found the perfect person for them, because that person understands. But when the newness and excitement fade away -- they're often left in an even worse situation than before the relationship began. Is there any way to prevent this, or at least, to tread a little more carefully?”

Relationships evolve over time. We are constantly changing on a molecular level from the time we are born from the time we go be with God. That’s why it’s so important that we nurture our relationships like a garden in our backyards. Gentleness, growth, belief and commitment are just some of the things we need to see that garden grow. I’m sure we’ve all heard the saying “The grass is not greener on the other side.” I say “Do you water your own grass?” As time goes on, we as people change out interests, our hobbies, etc. and that’s why it’s so important that we embrace change and uncertainty. The only thing that SHOULD remain consistent is your love for each other. “No matter what happens, we will be okay.“ “I will never let you fall.” “Let’s get wrinkly together.” Those are the kinds of statements that hold a marriage together.

How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

You can’t help someone decide if they’re done. They need to make up their own minds. When they are done, they need to leave. If it’s dangerous, they should be documenting everything and the authorities should get involved. I’ve been in abusive relationships before, which is why I’ve been single for 15 years. Gave everything I had and she broke me. Men and women have the power to build good women and men up or break them down. It’s taken this long to build myself back up. But that’s a story for another time. Being a man is much simpler than being a woman because safety is usually not a big factor for men. If he’s abusive and he is following you after you leave, a restraining order is needed and the authorities should be involved right away. Don’t talk to them, don’t interact with them, just be cautious and be alert.

How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

Anyone can get a partner at any time. There is no degree or stage in their life that they should be in before getting into a relationship. What matters is their attitude towards that relationship is whether or not it’s going to be a deciding factor that it’s going to work. Someone can make up their minds to completely change their lives in 7 seconds. The change itself takes years, but the attitude is always the factor that determines if the change sticks. I was not a fitness enthusiast five years ago. I’ve ran into several setbacks, gave up for months, constantly feel even now like I’m getting nowhere (which isn’t true), whined to my friends about how difficult it is to get results. But what I do now is stay consistent. It doesn’t matter how I feel, results or no results, I just show up for myself every day. That’s the kind of attitude we need these days to make relationships work. We become content in knowing that we did our best and we continue to do so. And when you find someone who shows you the same effort, the same attitude, despite setbacks, despite bad days, you know you’ve got a good one. And they’re rare. Don’t FIND a good one, BECOME a good one and thats what you’ll attract. And if they are not a good match, don’t waste your their time or yours. Find someone who puts equal amounts of effort that you do.

Thanks for tuning into my TED talk.

 

[enril]

Hey Everyone,

I've written threads about this subject before, but I'm curious to see what the current crowd has to say about it.

I've always felt that one of my callings was to try to help hurting people, and often those who have been through very intense, extreme situations. Needlessly to say, I got to a point of burning out, and I started to realize how much people in pain (including myself) often form attachments to others in pain, or those they are trying to help.

I was trying to look for a phrase that describes this but I'm not quite sure if a fitting one exists?

"Trauma Bonding" seems to be centered on unhealthy attachments in abusive relationships; "Counselor Crush" centers on situations between helpers and those being helped, but neither one is wide enough to cover the scope I'm trying to define.

Emotional pain and trauma is big business nowadays. People even monetize it on social media, putting all their problems out for the world to see, usually seeking attention and money in return. I'm not trying to sound critical or condemning of this, but I wonder about the effect it has anyone trying to find a a real, meaningful relationship that leads to marriage. We live in a world where our pain has become our identity -- and sometimes, our excuse.

Everyone has some kind of pain or trauma, but how often have we seen things such as, two people struggling with X problem joining a support group -- then wind up "falling in love" with someone who has a similar problem (such as at Alcoholics Anonymous or rehab, etc.) -- but the two wind up pulling each other into an even worse downward spiral?

Or people who have similar challenges like bipolar disorder, depression, various other mental illnesses, then bond with someone who knows what it's like because they're going through all the same things -- and the relationship turns into a disaster?

The list is endless -- people who bond through military experience and it's extremities; people who bond to their accountability partners and through histories such as abusive family backgrounds, etc.

At the time, they truly think they've "fallen in love" and have found the perfect person for them, because that person understands.
But when the newness and excitement fade away -- they're often left in an even worse situation than before the relationship began.

Is there any way to prevent this, or at least, to tread a little more carefully?

It has taken many years, but I know for me, something crucial that helped me break my own cycle was when a CC friend pointed out, "A lot of people don't actually want help -- they want attention." It got me thinking about how people might even start out wanting help, but realize it's going to take too much change and giving up things they don't want to give up -- and so attention becomes a band-aid that feels a lot better than actually putting in the work.

One thing that has really helped me is praying for discernment -- distancing myself from those who want attention, saving my efforts for those who are truly working to change -- and praying that God will smack me back into line when I'm not working hard enough on my own shortcomings as well.

This subject raises a myriad of questions:

* Why do we "fall in love" with people with shared intense situations, but when the dust settles, find out that person really wasn't good for us, or we weren't good for them, at all?

* How can we avoid intense bonding to those for the wrong reasons -- and how do we recognize what the wrong reasons are?

* How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

* How can someone bonding through a lot of trauma know they are "falling in love" rather than "falling in pain"?

* How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

I know it's a very serious subject, but I think it's important to talk about.

And I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

A... "Bad weather friend"?...

 

[Lynx]

A... "Bad weather friend"?...

Combined with "Any port in a storm."

Wait... that's what the wine drinker said when the restaurant was out of his favorite red wine. =^.^=

 

[enril]

Combined with "Any port in a storm."

Wait... that's what the wine drinker said when the restaurant was out of his favorite red wine. =^.^=

*He doesn't get it. Lynx, What are you doing with your life?*

 

[seoulsearch]

A... "Bad weather friend"?...

*Seoulsearch takes advantage of the opportunity to shamelessly gush about her favorite author, yet again.*

@enril is making an awesome reference to Dean Koontz's book, "The Bad Weather Friend."

Mr. Dean has been my lifelong favorite author. Back in the 90's, I wrote him 3 fan letters, and he was kind enough to send me his newsletter and a few handwritten lines back, along with an autographed book -- each time, taking the time to spell out my first name correctly (something even close friends and family don't do.)

I later got involved with a church that told me I had to throw out all "worldly" things, which included the things he had sent me (along with my many tears over the matter.) I also stayed away from his books for years because of it.

All these years later, I felt like God was telling me that these people, while well-meaning, had been wrong, and last year, I got into Mr. Dean's books again. This summer (prompted by a thread about favorite books by Enril,) I sent him a 10-page, typed fan letter. He gets over 20,000 fan letters a year and says in interviews that while he's not able to respond to everyone like he tried to do in the past, he does read every letter.

He must have worked on his reply the very day he read my letter, because I got a package about 3 days later (priority mail!) My hands were shaking when I saw who it was from. Mr. Dean not only took the time to type out a 1-page reply specifically answering some of my questions, but he also sent me 3 personally inscribed, autographed, hardcover books -- one of which happened to be "The Bad Weather Friend" (see avatar.)

I shared this with a friend who's known me half my life, and she said, "I didn't know your name was spelled that way!!" -- which is exactly why I am floored that this world-famous author who has sold over half a billion books would take the time to not only answer someone as insignificant as me, but would also send me some of his precious works -- and take the time to write out my full first name in every one of them.

Now I have to be honest.

I enjoy his earlier works more than some of his later ones; after writing something like 150 books, he re-uses several plot points and names; some of the stories have plot holes you could drive a Mack truck through (but I would challenge anyone to write 150 books and not run into the same issues.)

Rather, my favorite story of his is the Mr. Dean Koontz story itself -- a boy who grew up poor (no water or electricity until he was about 11) under the thumb of a violent, alcoholic father who tried to stab him twice as an adult (even as Mr. Dean was paying all of his living expenses.) A guy who's been married to his high school sweetheart all his life (he's 80 now and they're still together,) always credits God and his wife for his writing career, loves to make jokes at his own expense (he still sees himself as a nobody,) and is extensively involved with charities for those who are differently abled and/or have special needs.

His monthly newsletters are a hoot (his wife says he's really a closeted, frustrated comedian,) and while I know he he limited time left on this earth, I will remain a fan of him and his wife for the rest of mine.

Thank you, Mr. Dean!

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey Everyone,

I've written threads about this subject before, but I'm curious to see what the current crowd has to say about it.

I've always felt that one of my callings was to try to help hurting people, and often those who have been through very intense, extreme situations. Needlessly to say, I got to a point of burning out, and I started to realize how much people in pain (including myself) often form attachments to others in pain, or those they are trying to help.

I was trying to look for a phrase that describes this but I'm not quite sure if a fitting one exists?

"Trauma Bonding" seems to be centered on unhealthy attachments in abusive relationships; "Counselor Crush" centers on situations between helpers and those being helped, but neither one is wide enough to cover the scope I'm trying to define.

Emotional pain and trauma is big business nowadays. People even monetize it on social media, putting all their problems out for the world to see, usually seeking attention and money in return. I'm not trying to sound critical or condemning of this, but I wonder about the effect it has anyone trying to find a a real, meaningful relationship that leads to marriage. We live in a world where our pain has become our identity -- and sometimes, our excuse.

Everyone has some kind of pain or trauma, but how often have we seen things such as, two people struggling with X problem joining a support group -- then wind up "falling in love" with someone who has a similar problem (such as at Alcoholics Anonymous or rehab, etc.) -- but the two wind up pulling each other into an even worse downward spiral?

Or people who have similar challenges like bipolar disorder, depression, various other mental illnesses, then bond with someone who knows what it's like because they're going through all the same things -- and the relationship turns into a disaster?

The list is endless -- people who bond through military experience and it's extremities; people who bond to their accountability partners and through histories such as abusive family backgrounds, etc.

At the time, they truly think they've "fallen in love" and have found the perfect person for them, because that person understands.
But when the newness and excitement fade away -- they're often left in an even worse situation than before the relationship began.

Is there any way to prevent this, or at least, to tread a little more carefully?

It has taken many years, but I know for me, something crucial that helped me break my own cycle was when a CC friend pointed out, "A lot of people don't actually want help -- they want attention." It got me thinking about how people might even start out wanting help, but realize it's going to take too much change and giving up things they don't want to give up -- and so attention becomes a band-aid that feels a lot better than actually putting in the work.

One thing that has really helped me is praying for discernment -- distancing myself from those who want attention, saving my efforts for those who are truly working to change -- and praying that God will smack me back into line when I'm not working hard enough on my own shortcomings as well.

This subject raises a myriad of questions:

* Why do we "fall in love" with people with shared intense situations, but when the dust settles, find out that person really wasn't good for us, or we weren't good for them, at all?

* How can we avoid intense bonding to those for the wrong reasons -- and how do we recognize what the wrong reasons are?

* How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

* How can someone bonding through a lot of trauma know they are "falling in love" rather than "falling in pain"?

* How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

I know it's a very serious subject, but I think it's important to talk about.

And I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

I've never met any woman who's gone through what I've gone through but if I did, it would probably make me instantly fall for that person. I mean how could you not? The world is a big, cold, lonely place and finding someone who has suffered the same pains that you suffered is going to naturally feel like a special friendship.

 

[33Michael33]

Hey Everyone,

I've written threads about this subject before, but I'm curious to see what the current crowd has to say about it.

I've always felt that one of my callings was to try to help hurting people, and often those who have been through very intense, extreme situations. Needlessly to say, I got to a point of burning out, and I started to realize how much people in pain (including myself) often form attachments to others in pain, or those they are trying to help.

I was trying to look for a phrase that describes this but I'm not quite sure if a fitting one exists?

"Trauma Bonding" seems to be centered on unhealthy attachments in abusive relationships; "Counselor Crush" centers on situations between helpers and those being helped, but neither one is wide enough to cover the scope I'm trying to define.

Emotional pain and trauma is big business nowadays. People even monetize it on social media, putting all their problems out for the world to see, usually seeking attention and money in return. I'm not trying to sound critical or condemning of this, but I wonder about the effect it has anyone trying to find a a real, meaningful relationship that leads to marriage. We live in a world where our pain has become our identity -- and sometimes, our excuse.

Everyone has some kind of pain or trauma, but how often have we seen things such as, two people struggling with X problem joining a support group -- then wind up "falling in love" with someone who has a similar problem (such as at Alcoholics Anonymous or rehab, etc.) -- but the two wind up pulling each other into an even worse downward spiral?

Or people who have similar challenges like bipolar disorder, depression, various other mental illnesses, then bond with someone who knows what it's like because they're going through all the same things -- and the relationship turns into a disaster?

The list is endless -- people who bond through military experience and it's extremities; people who bond to their accountability partners and through histories such as abusive family backgrounds, etc.

At the time, they truly think they've "fallen in love" and have found the perfect person for them, because that person understands.
But when the newness and excitement fade away -- they're often left in an even worse situation than before the relationship began.

Is there any way to prevent this, or at least, to tread a little more carefully?

It has taken many years, but I know for me, something crucial that helped me break my own cycle was when a CC friend pointed out, "A lot of people don't actually want help -- they want attention." It got me thinking about how people might even start out wanting help, but realize it's going to take too much change and giving up things they don't want to give up -- and so attention becomes a band-aid that feels a lot better than actually putting in the work.

One thing that has really helped me is praying for discernment -- distancing myself from those who want attention, saving my efforts for those who are truly working to change -- and praying that God will smack me back into line when I'm not working hard enough on my own shortcomings as well.

This subject raises a myriad of questions:

* Why do we "fall in love" with people with shared intense situations, but when the dust settles, find out that person really wasn't good for us, or we weren't good for them, at all?

* How can we avoid intense bonding to those for the wrong reasons -- and how do we recognize what the wrong reasons are?

* How "healed" does someone have to be to look for a partner?

* How can someone bonding through a lot of trauma know they are "falling in love" rather than "falling in pain"?

* How have you helped others who have experienced get out of these situations if/when they turned unhealthy -- or even dangerous? How have you gotten out of them yourself?

I know it's a very serious subject, but I think it's important to talk about.

And I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

So, I saw this post the other day and I can relate all to well. And my comment/answer is this because it is more personal experience/research. A lot of us get into what you are calling falling in Love with Pain because of two unhealthy/broken people who fill each others void to make the feeling of loneliness or whatever each others unresolved issue from not taking the time to properly heal first. So then the relationship is actually built on codependency. Which is what I am not trying to get myself back into because I am all to guilty of that in the past. I even wasn't aware of it at the time because I was blinded by Pain. And Actually falling in Love is when two people are completely healed and can bring to the relationship positive reinforcement for each other and build something Real and long lasting. However, As I say this I am Completely and Honestly a Hopeless Romantic that believes with God ALL things are Possible and if two people are meant to Be. They CAN, And WILL live Happily ever after. For Example, I believe even as broken as I am at the Moment. I Believe God may bring me together with a Woman that Needs me just as much as I need Her. And Regardless of what the world thinks. We Can And Will Build an Amazing Happy and Healthy Life Together Forever and Ever. AMEN

 

[33Michael33]

*Seoulsearch takes advantage of the opportunity to shamelessly gush about her favorite author, yet again.*

@enril is making an awesome reference to Dean Koontz's book, "The Bad Weather Friend."

Mr. Dean has been my lifelong favorite author. Back in the 90's, I wrote him 3 fan letters, and he was kind enough to send me his newsletter and a few handwritten lines back, along with an autographed book -- each time, taking the time to spell out my first name correctly (something even close friends and family don't do.)

I later got involved with a church that told me I had to throw out all "worldly" things, which included the things he had sent me (along with my many tears over the matter.) I also stayed away from his books for years because of it.

All these years later, I felt like God was telling me that these people, while well-meaning, had been wrong, and last year, I got into Mr. Dean's books again. This summer (prompted by a thread about favorite books by Enril,) I sent him a 10-page, typed fan letter. He gets over 20,000 fan letters a year and says in interviews that while he's not able to respond to everyone like he tried to do in the past, he does read every letter.

He must have worked on his reply the very day he read my letter, because I got a package about 3 days later (priority mail!) My hands were shaking when I saw who it was from. Mr. Dean not only took the time to type out a 1-page reply specifically answering some of my questions, but he also sent me 3 personally inscribed, autographed, hardcover books -- one of which happened to be "The Bad Weather Friend" (see avatar.)

I shared this with a friend who's known me half my life, and she said, "I didn't know your name was spelled that way!!" -- which is exactly why I am floored that this world-famous author who has sold over half a billion books would take the time to not only answer someone as insignificant as me, but would also send me some of his precious works -- and take the time to write out my full first name in every one of them.

Now I have to be honest.

I enjoy his earlier works more than some of his later ones; after writing something like 150 books, he re-uses several plot points and names; some of the stories have plot holes you could drive a Mack truck through (but I would challenge anyone to write 150 books and not run into the same issues.)

Rather, my favorite story of his is the Mr. Dean Koontz story itself -- a boy who grew up poor (no water or electricity until he was about 11) under the thumb of a violent, alcoholic father who tried to stab him twice as an adult (even as Mr. Dean was paying all of his living expenses.) A guy who's been married to his high school sweetheart all his life (he's 80 now and they're still together,) always credits God and his wife for his writing career, loves to make jokes at his own expense (he still sees himself as a nobody,) and is extensively involved with charities for those who are differently abled and/or have special needs.

His monthly newsletters are a hoot (his wife says he's really a closeted, frustrated comedian,) and while I know he he limited time left on this earth, I will remain a fan of him and his wife for the rest of mine.

Thank you, Mr. Dean!

Your first name is not Kymigasuki is it??? I Dated a Woman by that Name for a Brief time as a Teenager. I am from Georgia and I still remember her. We went to the Waffle House and Steak & Shake. I really feel like I totally missed a real opportunity with her. We Met Online in an Atlanta Chat Room. AOL Dial-Up back then. She Went by Kym. And I was Six4245. Six foot 4 245LBS...

 

[33Michael33]

Your first name is not Kymigasuki is it??? I Dated a Woman by that Name for a Brief time as a Teenager. I am from Georgia and I still remember her. We went to the Waffle House and Steak & Shake. I really feel like I totally missed a real opportunity with her. We Met Online in an Atlanta Chat Room. AOL Dial-Up back then. She Went by Kym. And I was Six4245. Six foot 4 245LBS...

I have actually tried to look her up over the Years as one would think that a Unique name like that would be easy to find on Facebook. I had no such luck...

 

[seoulsearch]

Your first name is not Kymigasuki is it??? I Dated a Woman by that Name for a Brief time as a Teenager. I am from Georgia and I still remember her. We went to the Waffle House and Steak & Shake. I really feel like I totally missed a real opportunity with her. We Met Online in an Atlanta Chat Room. AOL Dial-Up back then. She Went by Kym. And I was Six4245. Six foot 4 245LBS...

I have actually tried to look her up over the Years as one would think that a Unique name like that would be easy to find on Facebook. I had no such luck...

Alas, I am not the person you're looking for.

Perhaps she isn't on Facebook and/or she was using a made-up or different name than what she uses now.

I have many CC friends who use a fake name, nickname, or name others wouldn't be able to look up for the sake of privacy.

If I could start over on the internet, I probably would have done the same.

 

[33Michael33]

Alas, I am not the person you're looking for.

Perhaps she isn't on Facebook and/or she was using a made-up or different name than what she uses now.

I have many CC friends who use a fake name, nickname, or name others wouldn't be able to look up for the sake of privacy.

If I could start over on the internet, I probably would have done the same.

Ha Ha, I Use to Say, "Six is in the Mix." When I would join the room...

 

[seoulsearch]

I just wanted to say that I appreciate all the deep, meaningful thoughts and stories people have been writing on this thread.

I know the bedrock of our faith is to study the Bible and pray, but I'm someone who needs to hear what other people go through and the conclusions they draw on their own.

I've never been someone who can just learn from reading a book, even though I love to read. In school, I couldn't just learn from textbooks -- I had to always attend lectures taught by an actual human being. It doesn't even help me all that much if there are pictures. For example, I tried to learn how to crochet from a book years ago (way before the internet,) and just couldn't get past a single-loop chain. But now that things like YouTube and video tutorials are available, it opens doors to things I couldn't grasp before with what was available.

Along with written and visual instructions, I need to interact with those in motion.

Reading about God's grace and mercy, worshipping and prayer, taking Bible classes will only get me so far.

I need to hear from people who have experienced the things I'm learning about: actual experience with God's provision from those who've been through financial struggles; hearing about God's comfort when dealing with cancer, illness, chronic pain and the death of loved ones; agonizing over children who have strayed and the struggles parents go through; trying to break from from, and avoid, co-dependent relationships...

Your stories and posts are the final pieces to the puzzle of how God's instruction comes alive in my life -- and I thank you all very much for continuing to share them.

Like anyone, I have my own struggles and reading your stories of how you've gotten through help me try to work harder at trying not to get caught in those same old snares.

Thank you!

 

[Carlyw]

Im a highly traumatized individual, and my husband is aswell. I didn't know that he had so much trauma beforehand, because he did not tell me. I did know though, that he had some mental disorders. Hes on medication, which to me when taking them regularly, he seemed to be a completely healthy individual. After getting married however, I saw that he had more instability than I was prepared for.

If we were dating, and he had shown his full self, I believe I would have stayed. Personally, I do not believe in a concept of "not right for me" in most cases, I don't not think it possible, as marriage is a life long commitment, with two ever changing people. Dating, along with it is a devotion, to a ever changing person in hopes for marriage. Though, I can say some people really just shouldn't be, especially those unequally yoked. And any type of abuse within a dating relationship should most certainly merit a separation.

I already know that my husband is not good for me in some ways, just as I sure do stress him out. And yet we try our best to learn from this and to try our hardest to be who we need to be despite the hardships of marriage.

I can not say that bonding to those you can relate to is bad, especially within dating. I do not think the issue would be then bonding for the right or wrong reasons, but rather who the person is presenting themselves to be throughout the bonding. Let's say, if said person begins to upset you with problematic behaviors. Is this person who you share trauma with using it to excuse bad behavior? Or are they recognizing it and working towrds a solution? This is what would make or break our relationship. For marriage, I would consider pastoral counseling.

As for being healed, I am not sure that one will ever be healed enough. Ive been working towards healing for years and have yet to find it. I tried to search for it in God and I have come to the conclusion that he will heal me on his time. Though being healed is important, you can still make reasonable decisions that are healthy for your relationship without being "healthy". It takes knowing what to do biblically, fitting into your role, and also being self aware and humble.

If my husband comes up to me and says he feels rejected because of me, I tell him that im sorry for contributing to those feelings in him and we try to figure out a solution. Neither of us are healthy, but we make things work with good habits.

Not only this, we still get reactive and respond disproportionately sometimes. Afterwards we come to eachother and share how it made us feel and apologize/reconcile. If we cant, we get the pastor involved.

I do not think someone who's brain has been wired to seek out a certain connection with a partner, which to them registers as love can really stop without a LOT of education, awareness and brain training. I tried so hard, but ended up hurting anyway. What I will say is that we are ALL human, we're ALL hurting in some way, weve all been somewhat traumatized. We all have our struggles. Youre getting with a person. No matter who you get with, there will be hardships and struggles. I do not see this as a bad thing, I see it as a chance to learn humility, reflection, grace, strength, patience, compassion, boundaries, communication, amongst so many other skills. Learning how to communicate with that person to solve problems and get both of your needs met is crucial, especially if marriage is the goal. Pre marriage counseling is good for these things

When things have gotten violent, or abusive without signs of repentance or remorse, its ideal that things break up. Whether in marriage or during the dating phase.

At first when things look bleak i usually recommend pastoral counseling, and if that doesnt work soon after, or isnt a option for either one of the people, a split up would be recommended.

I tried to answer all of your questions with my own ideas they are not in any way professional, but I do consider myself somewhat experienced.

 

[Carlyw]

Its also worth noting that praying together and having spiritual disciplines somewhat intertwined would be awesome, and something to look for.

My husband and I do not do this too often, but we are getting much more devoted in action.

If you need spiritual leadership, try to get with a spiritual man. I do wish that I had kept this part in mind, as eventually my daily devotional time went from 1-3 hours to 5-30 minutes.

It grieved my heart at first, and still does in a way, but also I am becoming much more Christ like through practicing what Ive read, rather than just reading endlessly.

Still, preferably a spiritual man is ideal. My husbands always been Christian, but has always been kind of wishy washy regarding his faith. We've seen much improvement though, and im greatful for this.

 

[33Michael33]

Im a highly traumatized individual, and my husband is aswell. I didn't know that he had so much trauma beforehand, because he did not tell me. I did know though, that he had some mental disorders. Hes on medication, which to me when taking them regularly, he seemed to be a completely healthy individual. After getting married however, I saw that he had more instability than I was prepared for.

If we were dating, and he had shown his full self, I believe I would have stayed. Personally, I do not believe in a concept of "not right for me" in most cases, I don't not think it possible, as marriage is a life long commitment, with two ever changing people. Dating, along with it is a devotion, to a ever changing person in hopes for marriage. Though, I can say some people really just shouldn't be, especially those unequally yoked. And any type of abuse within a dating relationship should most certainly merit a separation.

I already know that my husband is not good for me in some ways, just as I sure do stress him out. And yet we try our best to learn from this and to try our hardest to be who we need to be despite the hardships of marriage.

I can not say that bonding to those you can relate to is bad, especially within dating. I do not think the issue would be then bonding for the right or wrong reasons, but rather who the person is presenting themselves to be throughout the bonding. Let's say, if said person begins to upset you with problematic behaviors. Is this person who you share trauma with using it to excuse bad behavior? Or are they recognizing it and working towrds a solution? This is what would make or break our relationship. For marriage, I would consider pastoral counseling.

As for being healed, I am not sure that one will ever be healed enough. Ive been working towards healing for years and have yet to find it. I tried to search for it in God and I have come to the conclusion that he will heal me on his time. Though being healed is important, you can still make reasonable decisions that are healthy for your relationship without being "healthy". It takes knowing what to do biblically, fitting into your role, and also being self aware and humble.

If my husband comes up to me and says he feels rejected because of me, I tell him that im sorry for contributing to those feelings in him and we try to figure out a solution. Neither of us are healthy, but we make things work with good habits.

Not only this, we still get reactive and respond disproportionately sometimes. Afterwards we come to eachother and share how it made us feel and apologize/reconcile. If we cant, we get the pastor involved.

I do not think someone who's brain has been wired to seek out a certain connection with a partner, which to them registers as love can really stop without a LOT of education, awareness and brain training. I tried so hard, but ended up hurting anyway. What I will say is that we are ALL human, we're ALL hurting in some way, weve all been somewhat traumatized. We all have our struggles. Youre getting with a person. No matter who you get with, there will be hardships and struggles. I do not see this as a bad thing, I see it as a chance to learn humility, reflection, grace, strength, patience, compassion, boundaries, communication, amongst so many other skills. Learning how to communicate with that person to solve problems and get both of your needs met is crucial, especially if marriage is the goal. Pre marriage counseling is good for these things

When things have gotten violent, or abusive without signs of repentance or remorse, its ideal that things break up. Whether in marriage or during the dating phase.

At first when things look bleak i usually recommend pastoral counseling, and if that doesnt work soon after, or isnt a option for either one of the people, a split up would be recommended.

I tried to answer all of your questions with my own ideas they are not in any way professional, but I do consider myself somewhat experienced.

Thank You for This. It Personally has helped me more than you may realize.