Gospel Confusion...

[LightBearer316]

I don't teach anything, just sharing HIS word.

You think HIS work was done on the cross?
Then you don't believe HE went to Hell and rose again.
You, like most try to explain what HIS word says instead of reading it and it says what it says.
What do these verses mean and say?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Brother, you’re quoting Scripture, but the interpretation you’re giving turns an outward act into the means of salvation — something the rest of Scripture clearly denies.

Let’s look closely at the two passages you cited:

Acts 2:38

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins.”
The Greek word translated “for” is eis, which also means because of or on account of. It’s the same usage as in Matthew 12:41 — the Ninevites “repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah.” They didn’t repent to obtain Jonah’s preaching, but because of it.
Peter’s command fits perfectly with the rest of Scripture: repent (turn to Christ in faith) and then be baptized because your sins are forgiven, not to get them forgiven.


Only a few verses later (Acts 10:43–47), Peter says, “Whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” The Gentiles then received the Holy Spirit before baptism — proof that faith alone saves.


Acts 22:16

Ananias told Saul, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
The key phrase is “calling on the name of the Lord.” That’s what actually brings salvation — not the water. Romans 10:13 interprets this: “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
The washing Ananias spoke of was symbolic of what faith in Christ accomplishes — inward cleansing through His blood (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5).


So yes — Christ’s work was finished on the cross.
He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), not “It will be finished after baptism.”
His descent into the lower parts of the earth (Ephesians 4:9) and resurrection were part of the victory that proved the work was complete — not a continuation of atonement. The payment for sin happened at Calvary; the proof came at the empty tomb (Romans 4:25).

Grace and Peace

 

[Ouch]

Brother, you’re quoting Scripture, but the interpretation you’re giving turns an outward act into the means of salvation — something the rest of Scripture clearly denies.

Let’s look closely at the two passages you cited:

Acts 2:38

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized… for the remission of sins.”
The Greek word translated “for” is eis, which also means because of or on account of. It’s the same usage as in Matthew 12:41 — the Ninevites “repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah.” They didn’t repent to obtain Jonah’s preaching, but because of it.
Peter’s command fits perfectly with the rest of Scripture: repent (turn to Christ in faith) and then be baptized because your sins are forgiven, not to get them forgiven.


Only a few verses later (Acts 10:43–47), Peter says, “Whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” The Gentiles then received the Holy Spirit before baptism — proof that faith alone saves.


Acts 22:16

Ananias told Saul, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
The key phrase is “calling on the name of the Lord.” That’s what actually brings salvation — not the water. Romans 10:13 interprets this: “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
The washing Ananias spoke of was symbolic of what faith in Christ accomplishes — inward cleansing through His blood (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5).


So yes — Christ’s work was finished on the cross.
He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), not “It will be finished after baptism.”
His descent into the lower parts of the earth (Ephesians 4:9) and resurrection were part of the victory that proved the work was complete — not a continuation of atonement. The payment for sin happened at Calvary; the proof came at the empty tomb (Romans 4:25).

Grace and Peace

I guess the ball is in my court, follow LightBearer3 or GOD'S WORD,

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

LightBearer3 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, because your sins are forgiven, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

GOD'S warning to people like you.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


How do you twist this?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How do you twist this?

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As Paul asked I ask you, have YOU received the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED???

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

[LightBearer316]

I guess the ball is in my court, follow LightBearer3 or GOD'S WORD,

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

LightBearer3 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, because your sins are forgiven, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

GOD'S warning to people like you.

Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


How do you twist this?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How do you twist this?

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As Paul asked I ask you, have YOU received the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED???

Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Brother, we must interpret Scripture with Scripture, not by isolating verses from their context.
The issue isn’t whether baptism or the Holy Spirit matter — of course they do — but whether they save us or follow salvation. The Bible is unmistakably clear on that distinction.

1. Acts 2:38 — context and grammar

Peter told the crowd, “Repent, and be baptized … for the remission of sins.”
The Greek eis (“for”) also means because of or on account of — as in Matthew 12:41, where the Ninevites “repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah.”
They didn’t repent to obtain Jonah’s preaching but because of it.


In Acts 2, Peter preached to Jews who had crucified Christ. They were convicted, repented, and were told to be baptized as a public confession of the faith that now forgave them.
A few chapters later (Acts 10:43-47), Peter himself declares that “whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”
Those Gentiles received the Holy Spirit before baptism, proving faith alone brings salvation.

2. Acts 22:16 — the key phrase

Ananias told Saul, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Scripture interprets Scripture: “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
It’s the calling, not the water, that brings cleansing — and that cleansing is by blood, not by baptismal water (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5).

3. John 3:5 — “born of water and of the Spirit”

Jesus wasn’t teaching baptismal regeneration.
“Born of water” refers to natural birth (physical — “born of water”) contrasted with spiritual birth (“of the Spirit”).
That’s clear from the very next verse: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:6).
Water here symbolizes the physical; the Spirit refers to regeneration.

If “water” meant baptism, then Jesus was teaching something Nicodemus couldn’t yet understand — a ritual that didn’t even exist. But He was explaining the new birth, not a new ceremony.

4. Mark 16:17 — signs following

The signs in Mark 16 were temporary apostolic confirmations — not universal requirements.
They confirmed the message of the early church (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Not every believer spoke in tongues or healed the sick — Paul explicitly says, “Do all speak with tongues?” (1 Corinthians 12:30). The obvious answer is no.
So these verses describe what God did, not what every believer must do.

5. Acts 19:1-6 — transition period

Paul met disciples of John the Baptist who hadn’t yet heard the full gospel of Christ or the coming of the Spirit.
They were re-baptized into the name of Jesus — not because baptism saves, but because they were moving from pre-cross repentance (John’s baptism) to post-cross faith in Christ.
They then received the Holy Spirit, consistent with the new covenant order (Ephesians 1:13-14).

6. The finished work of Christ

When Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), He declared the atonement complete.
He didn’t say, “It will be finished after baptism.”
His descent and resurrection were not continuations of payment but proof of victory (Romans 4:25).

Salvation is by grace through faith, not by ritual:

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.” — Titus 3:5​

“To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.” — Romans 4:5​

Brother, Revelation 22:18-19 warns against adding to God’s Word — but making baptism a requirement for salvation does exactly that.
Let’s let the Word interpret itself and keep the gospel as Paul defined it:

“Christ died for our sins… He was buried, and… He rose again the third day.” — 1 Corinthians 15:3-4​

Faith in that finished work saves.
Baptism is the beautiful testimony that follows it — not the cause.

Grace and peace in Christ alone.

 

[LightBearer316]

What “OUCH” is teaching mirrors Roman Catholic sacramental theology, even if he doesn’t call it that. The essence of his argument — that baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit — is the same root idea behind baptismal regeneration, which is foundational in Catholic doctrine (and also in some Oneness Pentecostal or Church of Christ groups).

Here’s the parallel:

1. Works joined to grace

Catholicism teaches that grace is “conferred” through the sacraments — that faith plus baptism plus ongoing obedience is what keeps a person in a state of grace.
That’s nearly identical to what he’s saying: redefining “obedience” so that it becomes a condition for salvation rather than a fruit of it.
But Paul was crystal clear — “If it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.” (Romans 11:6).


2. The “means of grace” confusion

Catholic theology (and many modern imitators) treats baptism as the means by which sins are forgiven.
Scripture treats baptism as the symbol that follows forgiveness.
The thief on the cross is the simplest example — no ritual, no water, yet Jesus said, “Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.”


3. The “continuing work” mindset

Notice he said, “You think His work was done on the cross?”
That’s telling — Catholicism also teaches that Christ’s sacrifice is re-presented in the Mass, as though it were ongoing.
But Jesus said, “It is finished.” His work of atonement is complete and unrepeatable. (Hebrews 10:10–14).


4. The same misuse of Acts 2:38 and John 3:5

Both verses are used by Catholic and Church of Christ apologists to argue for water baptismal regeneration — but both ignore the consistent teaching of the New Testament that faith precedes and secures salvation, and baptism publicly declares it.


So yes — the pattern I'm seeing isn’t new. It’s an old error repackaged in “Bible language.” It sounds zealous and scriptural, but it blends law with grace, ritual with redemption — and that’s exactly what Paul called “another gospel” in Galatians 1:6–9.

Grace and Peace

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit

That's exactly what Peter said

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

 

[LightBearer316]

That's exactly what Peter said

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

That’s not what I said — or believe. I affirmed exactly the opposite: that forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit come through faith in Christ’s finished work, not through the act of baptism. Baptism is an outward testimony of what has already occurred inwardly by grace.

• I explained that baptism is because sins are forgiven, not in order to be forgiven.
• I emphasized that salvation is by grace through faith alone, citing Ephesians 2:8–9 and Romans 4:5.
• I clarified that baptism is an act of obedience after salvation, not the cause of it.

You are misrepresenting and inverted my meaning. I was refuting baptismal regeneration, not promoting it.

Grace and Peace

 

[Ouch]

Brother, we must interpret Scripture with Scripture, not by isolating verses from their context.
The issue isn’t whether baptism or the Holy Spirit matter — of course they do — but whether they save us or follow salvation. The Bible is unmistakably clear on that distinction.

1. Acts 2:38 — context and grammar

Peter told the crowd, “Repent, and be baptized … for the remission of sins.”
The Greek eis (“for”) also means because of or on account of — as in Matthew 12:41, where the Ninevites “repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah.”
They didn’t repent to obtain Jonah’s preaching but because of it.


In Acts 2, Peter preached to Jews who had crucified Christ. They were convicted, repented, and were told to be baptized as a public confession of the faith that now forgave them.
A few chapters later (Acts 10:43-47), Peter himself declares that “whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”
Those Gentiles received the Holy Spirit before baptism, proving faith alone brings salvation.

2. Acts 22:16 — the key phrase

Ananias told Saul, “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Scripture interprets Scripture: “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).
It’s the calling, not the water, that brings cleansing — and that cleansing is by blood, not by baptismal water (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5).

3. John 3:5 — “born of water and of the Spirit”

Jesus wasn’t teaching baptismal regeneration.
“Born of water” refers to natural birth (physical — “born of water”) contrasted with spiritual birth (“of the Spirit”).
That’s clear from the very next verse: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:6).
Water here symbolizes the physical; the Spirit refers to regeneration.

If “water” meant baptism, then Jesus was teaching something Nicodemus couldn’t yet understand — a ritual that didn’t even exist. But He was explaining the new birth, not a new ceremony.

4. Mark 16:17 — signs following

The signs in Mark 16 were temporary apostolic confirmations — not universal requirements.
They confirmed the message of the early church (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Not every believer spoke in tongues or healed the sick — Paul explicitly says, “Do all speak with tongues?” (1 Corinthians 12:30). The obvious answer is no.
So these verses describe what God did, not what every believer must do.

5. Acts 19:1-6 — transition period

Paul met disciples of John the Baptist who hadn’t yet heard the full gospel of Christ or the coming of the Spirit.
They were re-baptized into the name of Jesus — not because baptism saves, but because they were moving from pre-cross repentance (John’s baptism) to post-cross faith in Christ.
They then received the Holy Spirit, consistent with the new covenant order (Ephesians 1:13-14).

6. The finished work of Christ

When Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), He declared the atonement complete.
He didn’t say, “It will be finished after baptism.”
His descent and resurrection were not continuations of payment but proof of victory (Romans 4:25).

Salvation is by grace through faith, not by ritual:

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.” — Titus 3:5​

“To him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness.” — Romans 4:5​

Brother, Revelation 22:18-19 warns against adding to God’s Word — but making baptism a requirement for salvation does exactly that.
Let’s let the Word interpret itself and keep the gospel as Paul defined it:

“Christ died for our sins… He was buried, and… He rose again the third day.” — 1 Corinthians 15:3-4​

Faith in that finished work saves.
Baptism is the beautiful testimony that follows it — not the cause.

Grace and peace in Christ alone.

No idea why you can't accept HIS word the way it is???

So now in Acts 2 it was a public confession!

10:43 Shall meaning future which the future happened when they obeyed the commanmbe to be baptized.

When do we call upon the Lord? When we do things in HIS name like when a person is baptized they get baptized in JESUS name.

In John 3:5 did you notice the word REBORN?

Do you know when we are born natualy that is when we get our sins? That is why JESUS said REBORN.

in 1 Cor, Paul is speaking to a church he started, read it again he is refering to what goes on in a church not when we are filled.

Acts 19 Proves that baptism is required and in a spifice way and how come all 12 got the Holy Ghost not just some?

Since you altered HIS WORD Rev is speaking to YOU.

So how about keeping it simple, if JESUS didn't lie and HE said we have to be born of water and of spirit.

AND the first message preched says the same thing, tell me WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO BE REBORN TODAY.

 

[Ouch]

That's exactly what Peter said

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

It says what it says and means what it means!!

Thank you for sharing HIS word.

Satan's plan, keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

 

[LightBearer316]

That's exactly what Peter said

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ into the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

The statement you pulled that out of context was when I wrote this "What “OUCH” is teaching mirrors Roman Catholic sacramental theology, even if he doesn’t call it that. The essence of his argument — that baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit — is the same root idea behind baptismal regeneration, which is foundational in Catholic doctrine (and also in some Oneness Pentecostal or Church of Christ groups)."

ChristRoseFromTheDead quoted me out of context. I never said baptism is required to receive forgiveness or the Holy Spirit — I said the opposite.

My point was that teaching baptism as a requirement for salvation mirrors the same sacramental thinking found in Catholic or Oneness doctrine. I affirmed that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit are received by grace through faith alone, and that baptism follows as an act of obedience because our sins have already been forgiven.

That’s consistent with Peter’s later words in Acts 10:43–47, where those who believed received the Holy Spirit before baptism.

 

[Ouch]

The statement you pulled that out of context was when I wrote this "What “OUCH” is teaching mirrors Roman Catholic sacramental theology, even if he doesn’t call it that. The essence of his argument — that baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit — is the same root idea behind baptismal regeneration, which is foundational in Catholic doctrine (and also in some Oneness Pentecostal or Church of Christ groups)."

ChristRoseFromTheDead quoted me out of context. I never said baptism is required to receive forgiveness or the Holy Spirit — I said the opposite.

My point was that teaching baptism as a requirement for salvation mirrors the same sacramental thinking found in Catholic or Oneness doctrine. I affirmed that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit are received by grace through faith alone, and that baptism follows as an act of obedience because our sins have already been forgiven.

That’s consistent with Peter’s later words in Acts 10:43–47, where those who believed received the Holy Spirit before baptism.

SO WHAT THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST FIRST!!

If they didn't would Paul have baptized them to remove their sins?

JESUS disciple's in Act 2:4 did also.

How come JESUS told HIS disciples not to go out without it?

 

[Ouch]

The statement you pulled that out of context was when I wrote this "What “OUCH” is teaching mirrors Roman Catholic sacramental theology, even if he doesn’t call it that. The essence of his argument — that baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit — is the same root idea behind baptismal regeneration, which is foundational in Catholic doctrine (and also in some Oneness Pentecostal or Church of Christ groups)."

ChristRoseFromTheDead quoted me out of context. I never said baptism is required to receive forgiveness or the Holy Spirit — I said the opposite.

My point was that teaching baptism as a requirement for salvation mirrors the same sacramental thinking found in Catholic or Oneness doctrine. I affirmed that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit are received by grace through faith alone, and that baptism follows as an act of obedience because our sins have already been forgiven.

That’s consistent with Peter’s later words in Acts 10:43–47, where those who believed received the Holy Spirit before baptism.

YOU are altering HIS WORD. YOU ARE.

2. “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:38)

Peter told already-believing Jews to be baptized because their sins had been remitted through faith in the risen Christ they had just confessed (Acts 2:37-41).
The same Peter later says plainly:

It is sad, but this is why the thief didn't need to be baptized.

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

 

[LightBearer316]

YOU are altering HIS WORD. YOU ARE.

2. “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:38)

Peter told already-believing Jews to be baptized because their sins had been remitted through faith in the risen Christ they had just confessed (Acts 2:37-41).
The same Peter later says plainly:

It is sad, but this is why the thief didn't need to be baptized.

We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

We must interpret the whole counsel of God — not just one verse in isolation.

Peter’s message in Acts 2:38 must be understood in the context of all Scripture — especially the passages that show salvation is by grace through faith, not by any external act (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Romans 4:5).

Those Jews in Acts 2 had already believed the message Peter preached — they were “pricked in their heart” (Acts 2:37). Their baptism was an outward confession of the faith that had already brought forgiveness. That’s why, later in Acts 10:43-47, Peter himself declares:

“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”​

Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit before baptism — proving baptism follows salvation, it doesn’t cause it.

The thief on the cross is a perfect example: he could not be baptized, yet Jesus said, “Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43). The same grace that saved him saves us — through faith in the crucified and risen Christ.

Baptism is obedience, not the means of salvation. Salvation is the gift; baptism is the testimony.

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

It’s become evident at this point how ChristRoseFromTheDead misquoted what I originally said.
I’ve tried to be careful and scriptural in every response, and anyone reading the thread can see that my words were taken out of context.

I’m not here to win arguments but to uphold the truth of Scripture as written — comparing Scripture with Scripture, not misrepresenting one another.
That’s the only way these discussions can honor Christ and edify the body.

Grace and peace to all who seek the truth in His Word.

 

[BillG]

The statement you pulled that out of context was when I wrote this "What “OUCH” is teaching mirrors Roman Catholic sacramental theology, even if he doesn’t call it that. The essence of his argument — that baptism is required to receive forgiveness and the Holy Spirit — is the same root idea behind baptismal regeneration, which is foundational in Catholic doctrine (and also in some Oneness Pentecostal or Church of Christ groups)."

ChristRoseFromTheDead quoted me out of context. I never said baptism is required to receive forgiveness or the Holy Spirit — I said the opposite.

My point was that teaching baptism as a requirement for salvation mirrors the same sacramental thinking found in Catholic or Oneness doctrine. I affirmed that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit are received by grace through faith alone, and that baptism follows as an act of obedience because our sins have already been forgiven.

That’s consistent with Peter’s later words in Acts 10:43–47, where those who believed received the Holy Spirit before baptism.

That’s what they do

 

[BillG]

It’s become evident at this point how ChristRoseFromTheDead misquoted what I originally said.
I’ve tried to be careful and scriptural in every response, and anyone reading the thread can see that my words were taken out of context.

I’m not here to win arguments but to uphold the truth of Scripture as written — comparing Scripture with Scripture, not misrepresenting one another.
That’s the only way these discussions can honor Christ and edify the body.

Grace and peace to all who seek the truth in His Word.

It won’t be long before you are told your are not saved if you haven’t been told yet.
They take the place of God concerning who is and isn’t saved.

 

[LightBearer316]

It won’t be long before you are told your are not saved if you haven’t been told yet.
They take the place of God concerning who is and isn’t saved.

Thanks for the head up!

I can point out several common theological errors that tend to show up in this forum, especially in debates about salvation, baptism, and dispensationalism.

Here are some that appear frequently:

1. Baptismal Regeneration Confusion

Some equate water baptism with spiritual regeneration, teaching that sins are forgiven through baptism rather than because of faith in Christ’s finished work.

• Error: Making baptism a condition of salvation instead of an act of obedience that follows it.
• Scripture: Ephesians 2:8–9, Titus 3:5, Acts 10:43–47 all show that forgiveness and the Holy Spirit are received through faith, not the ritual itself.

2. Hyper-Dispensationalism

Some claim that Peter and Paul preached two different gospels—one for the Jews (the “Kingdom Gospel”) and another for Gentiles (the “Gospel of Grace”).

• Error: Dividing the body of Christ into separate groups with distinct paths to salvation.
• Scripture: Galatians 1:8–9 warns against another gospel; Acts 15:11 shows Peter affirming the same grace Paul preached. There’s only one gospel—Christ crucified, risen, and received by faith (1 Cor 15:1-4).

3. Faith + Works Salvation

Others try to merge faith and works as co-requirements for justification, misreading James 2 as contradicting Paul.

• Error: Treating good works as the cause of salvation instead of its evidence.
• Scripture: Romans 4:4-5, Ephesians 2:10 — works flow from salvation, not toward it.

4. Context Neglect (Proof-Texting)

Many lift verses like Acts 2:38, Hebrews 6, or Matthew 24 out of their immediate and covenantal context.

• Error: Building doctrine from isolated texts rather than comparing Scripture with Scripture (2 Tim 2:15).
• Example: Ignoring the Jewish audience and transitional setting of early Acts leads to wrong conclusions about salvation requirements.

5. Equating Emotional Experience with Truth

Some elevate subjective experiences—visions, tongues, or “feeling the Spirit”—above sound doctrine.

• Error: Using personal revelation to override Scripture.
• Scripture: 2 Peter 1:19 — the more sure word of prophecy (Scripture) anchors truth, not emotion.

6. Misunderstanding the Law and Grace

Frequent confusion arises over whether Christians are still “under the Law.”

• Error: Either embracing legalism (trying to keep Mosaic law for righteousness) or lawlessness (antinomianism).
• Scripture: Romans 6:14 — we are not under the Law but under grace; yet grace leads to holiness, not license (Titus 2:11-12).

7. Over-Spiritualizing or Allegorizing Texts

Some interpret straightforward historical or prophetic passages (especially in Revelation) purely symbolically.

• Error: Denying plain meaning and the prophetic promises made to Israel.
• Scripture: Literal where possible, symbolic only when context clearly demands it (Revelation 1:1’s “signified” shows symbolic parts, but not all).

Grace and Peace

 

[Ouch]

We must interpret the whole counsel of God — not just one verse in isolation.

Peter’s message in Acts 2:38 must be understood in the context of all Scripture — especially the passages that show salvation is by grace through faith, not by any external act (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Romans 4:5).

Those Jews in Acts 2 had already believed the message Peter preached — they were “pricked in their heart” (Acts 2:37). Their baptism was an outward confession of the faith that had already brought forgiveness. That’s why, later in Acts 10:43-47, Peter himself declares:

“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”​

Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit before baptism — proving baptism follows salvation, it doesn’t cause it.

The thief on the cross is a perfect example: he could not be baptized, yet Jesus said, “Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43). The same grace that saved him saves us — through faith in the crucified and risen Christ.

Baptism is obedience, not the means of salvation. Salvation is the gift; baptism is the testimony.

Grace and Peace

YOU are altering HIS WORD and you will be held accountable for it.

What about Acts 8 and 19 were they were baptized first?

If all you need to do is believe, why wasn't Cornelis saved in Acts 10:1? Why did he have to send for Peter?

FYI, no matter how many times you say being baptized has nothing to do with salivation IT WILL NEVER BE TRUE.

How do we get rid of our sins?

Can you prove, "Their baptism was an outward confession of the faith that had already brought forgiveness"


We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

HOW DO I GET REBORN TODAY?????

 

[LightBearer316]

YOU are altering HIS WORD and you will be held accountable for it.

What about Acts 8 and 19 were they were baptized first?

If all you need to do is believe, why wasn't Cornelis saved in Acts 10:1? Why did he have to send for Peter?

FYI, no matter how many times you say being baptized has nothing to do with salivation IT WILL NEVER BE TRUE.

How do we get rid of our sins?

Can you prove, "Their baptism was an outward confession of the faith that had already brought forgiveness"


We need to righty divide the word.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

HOW DO I GET REBORN TODAY?????

Let's let Scripture interpret Scripture.
When we rightly divide the Word, we see that salvation has always been by grace through faith in God’s provision — never by human effort or ritual. The difference between Old and New Covenant isn’t how we’re saved, but how God revealed His plan of redemption.


1. Cornelius and Acts 10 — Faith Before Baptism

Cornelius feared God, prayed, and gave alms — yet he still needed the gospel to believe on Christ.

“To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” (Acts 10:43)​

The proof followed immediately:

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” (Acts 10:44)​

They received the Holy Spirit before baptism (v. 47–48).
God Himself confirmed that faith brings salvation; baptism follows as testimony.


2. Acts 8 and Acts 19 — Context and Purpose

Acts 8 – The Ethiopian Eunuch
Philip preached Jesus (v. 35), and the eunuch said,

“I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” (v. 37)
Only after believing did he request baptism.
Faith preceded baptism.​

Acts 19 – The Disciples at Ephesus
They had been baptized into John’s baptism (v. 3), which was about repentance, not faith in the risen Christ.
When Paul explained the full gospel,

“They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (v. 5)
Again — belief came first, baptism followed.​

3. Acts 2:38 — Understanding “For the Remission of Sins”

The Greek word eis (“for”) also means because of or on account of.
Just as the Ninevites “repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah” (Matthew 12:41) — not to obtain his preaching but because of it —
so the Jews in Acts 2 were baptized because their hearts were already “pricked” (Acts 2:37) and they had believed Peter’s message about Christ.

Baptism didn’t earn their forgiveness; it expressed it — the public sign of inward repentance and faith.


4. The Thief on the Cross — Same Grace, Same Gospel

Yes, the thief lived before Pentecost, but salvation has never been by works.

“Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” (Romans 4:3)
“Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.” (Romans 4:8)​

The thief simply believed:

“Lord, remember me…” (Luke 23:42)
And Jesus replied,
“Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43)​

His faith alone united him to Christ — just as ours does.


5. How Do I Get Reborn Today?

Scripture answers plainly:

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” (Acts 16:31)
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” (1 John 5:1)​

When you believe that Christ died for your sins and rose again (1 Cor 15:3–4), the Holy Spirit indwells you — that is the new birth.
Baptism is your outward confession of what God has already done within.


6. Why This Matters

If baptism were required for salvation, Paul would never have said:

“Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” (1 Cor 1:17)​

Paul drew a clear distinction between the gospel that saves and the ordinance that follows.
Baptism is not the gospel itself — it’s the believer’s obedient testimony after receiving it.


Grace and peace to you, brother.
Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Baptism is the beautiful outward declaration that we’ve already been washed — not by water, but by His blood (Revelation 1:5).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That’s not what I said — or believe. I affirmed exactly the opposite: that forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit come through faith in Christ’s finished work, not through the act of baptism. Baptism is an outward testimony of what has already occurred inwardly by grace.

• I explained that baptism is because sins are forgiven, not in order to be forgiven.
• I emphasized that salvation is by grace through faith alone, citing Ephesians 2:8–9 and Romans 4:5.
• I clarified that baptism is an act of obedience after salvation, not the cause of it.

You are misrepresenting and inverted my meaning. I was refuting baptismal regeneration, not promoting it.

Grace and Peace

Regeneration doesn't come until one is born from above in the spirit. Peter seems to be saying that happens with water baptism

 

[LightBearer316]

Regeneration doesn't come until one is born from above in the spirit. Peter seems to be saying that happens with water baptism

I agree that regeneration — the new birth — is being “born from above” by the Spirit.
But Scripture is very clear: that birth comes by the Spirit through faith, not by the water itself.

Let’s look carefully at what the Bible actually says:

1. Jesus Defined the New Birth as Spiritual, Not Ritual

“Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)​

Some assume “water” here means baptism — but look at the context:

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (v. 6)​

Jesus contrasts physical birth (the water of the womb) with spiritual birth (the Spirit’s work).
The focus is not a ceremony, but a transformation only God can perform.

2. Peter Himself Said the New Birth Comes by the Word

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:23)​

If baptism were the means of regeneration, Peter would have said “born again by water.”
Instead, he says we are born again by the Word of God — when the Spirit uses the gospel to bring faith to life.

3. Paul Teaches the Same Truth

“According to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.” (Titus 3:5)​

Notice — it’s not a physical washing, but a spiritual one, done by the Holy Ghost.
Water baptism symbolizes that cleansing, but the real washing happens inwardly when the Spirit regenerates the heart through faith in Christ.

4. The Order in Scripture Is Always Faith → Salvation → Baptism

• In Acts 10, Cornelius believed, received the Holy Spirit, and then was baptized (vv. 44–48).
• In Acts 8, the Ethiopian eunuch believed Philip’s message about Christ and then was baptized (vv. 36–38).
• In Acts 16, the jailer believed and was saved before being baptized (vv. 30–33).

Nowhere does the Bible teach that water produces regeneration.
The Spirit gives life; baptism bears witness to it.

So yes — regeneration comes when one is “born from above,” but that happens the moment we believe and the Spirit gives life, not when water touches the skin.

Baptism beautifully declares what God has already done — but it cannot do what only the Spirit can.

Grace and Peace