Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Doll]

Proverbs 14 v 6, Proverbs 29 v 1 ~ A mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning. A man who remains stiff-necked after much reproof will suddenly be shattered beyond recovery.

Vegan!

 

[Doll]

Obviously false. I know full well all about Calvinism.

Sorry fake sorry

No evidence of that.

 

[Genez]

I see no where in scripture where we are called to be tolerant of false doctrine.

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached ​

to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other ​

gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8-9​

We are being rather nice compared to Paul's attitude.

 

[Magenta]

Peace, be still; Lay all your worries down. Be still, oh my soul, For our God, is in control. And if God is for us, Then whom shall I fear? And our God is for us; So lay down, be still. He is God. Hallelujah, our God has overcome. Hallelujah, our Lord, Jesus Christ, has won.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[Genez]

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

You go! Girl!

 

[Magenta]

Ecclesiastes 12 v 6-7 Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is
crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well, before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God Who gave it.

 

[Magenta]

Hebrews 4 v 12 The word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[cv5]

Stop right there.
You have a convinced mind, because you have sewn together your little straw men that you play house with.

The Gospel is not something we need to hear once we are saved.
It was designed by God to be presented in such a way that one does not have to be spiritual to understand it.

Now?
After what we are to learn after salvation?
The natural man will not possess what is needed to learn Bible doctrine.
That category of teaching would be foolishness to him.

I can see that somebody (cough cough @Magenta) failed to do their lexical homework on θεωρέω and γινώσκω in context of John 14:17.

Already been thoroughly de-Calvinized.....

 

[Magenta]

The Gospel is not something we need to hear once we are saved.
It was designed by God to be presented in such a way that one does not have to be spiritual to understand it.

The gospel preached is foolishness to the natural man, who cannot understand it.

So says Paul, but you teach other than what he said in many places. Accursed...

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Magenta]

I can see that somebody (cough cough @Magenta) failed to do their lexical homework on θεωρέω and γινώσκω in context of John 14:17.

Already been thoroughly de-Calvinized.....

Like I would believe anything you say...

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

 

[Magenta]

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us.

 

[Magenta]

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14

 

[Genez]

The gospel preached is foolishness to the natural man, who cannot understand it.

So says Paul, but you teach other than what he said in many places. Accursed....

It is foolishness only to those who are perishing.
Those who had and resisted the Holy Spirit and removed themselves from the drawing of God.

Those who remain willing to be drawn (by God's power of grace) are yet still unregenerated until they believe, and will find it the power onto salvation.

 

[Doll]

I can see that somebody (cough cough @Magenta) failed to do their lexical homework on θεωρέω and γινώσκω in context of John 14:17.

Already been thoroughly de-Calvinized.....

You actually don't know what you're talking about.

Not with regard to Calvinism or the New Testament.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 14&version=MOUNCE

 

[Magenta]

It is foolishness only to those who are perishing.
Those who had and resisted the Holy Spirit and removed themselves from the drawing of God.

Those who remain willing to be drawn (by God's power of grace) are yet still unregenerated until they believe, and will find it the power onto salvation.

You sure love making stuff up. Laughable! Willing to be drawn by God. Too funny.

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. And this is the verdict: The Light has
come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.

 

[Magenta]

Stop right there.
You have a convinced mind, because you have sewn together your little straw men that you play house with.

The Gospel is not something we need to hear once we are saved.
It was designed by God to be presented in such a way that one does not have to be spiritual to understand it.

Now?
After what we are to learn after salvation?
The natural man will not possess what is needed to learn Bible doctrine.
That category of teaching would be foolishness to him.

I see why Cam calls what you say gibberish. Even aside from the fact that you continually contradict Scripture.

Does this mean also that you agree with all HeIs' contradictions and denials of what Scripture says?

You do lie about them to call them straw men. How dishonest are you really?

By the way, that is a rhetorical question. I have zero reason to expect an honest answer from you.

 

[Genez]

You sure love making stuff up. Laughable! Willing to be drawn by God. Too funny.

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. And this is the verdict: The Light has
come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.

Mame?.. God is saving something worthwhile.
You can't seem to get that through your head.

But, God must make it something worthwhile to save.

That process takes place by the power of God's grace, forcing down the depravity of the flesh
as to allow the soul entrapped in that flesh to make choices that would otherwise be impossible.

This is not Free-willer Johnson here speaking to you.
I do not believe that in our natural state that man can choose anything for God.
Before Grace was added to the mix?
God was baking with a pile of total depravity because a little leaven works through the whole batch.

What separates me from your clan?
I understand, that God must free up the will of one's enslaved soul from the tyrannical flesh by His power we call 'grace.'.
The soul that you keep failing to differentiate as being different from and not the same part of you as the body of sin.

To clarify that, I am not a free-willer:

Free-willers believe that man intrinsically has the ability to choose for God.
That is a lie.

Doctrinal understanding allows a believer to see that Grace, with its power, must isolate the soul from the body,
before any true decision can be made.

Can you understand what I am saying?
Or, are you going to keep taking pot shots and duck back into your bunker?

The war is over.
You can put your shotgun down, which is loaded with smug hate-shot.

grace and peace ..........

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Well...Good Morning all you proud, man-exalting, Adam-worshiping FWers. In this post I'm going to explain why the Heb. term "zera" (Strong's 2233) used twice in Gen 3:15 is singular in number in both cases. The short explanation is because the writer used the term in the corporate/collective sense! But this premise will require a little longer explication from stated NT principles, proving once again how critically important it is to use sound hermeneutical principles to understand the OT in the scheme of progressive revelation. So...buckle yourselves up tightly because you FWers will likely go spastic on me before I'm done!

The "short explanation" is that the reference is to the Lord Jesus Christ on the one hand and satan on the other. No need to presume "the writer used the term in the corporate/collective sense!" in order to force the text to indicate something never intended by the Author.

and to clarify ... I am not a "proud, man-exalting, Adam-worshiping FWer". I am a born again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I follow Him ... which is something you would know if you were not so interested in removing those who are members of His body (1 Cor 12:21).

First of all, we know that there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who die in Adam and those who die in the Last Adam (Rom 5:12ff; 1Cor 15:12ff.) Both Adams are the Federal Head of their respective people. Both Adams are each ONE person; yet, there are many in each of the One!

More solid proof of this fact is also found in Gal 3 wherein Paul makes the point that the promised blessing to the nations would come through ONE seed (i.e. Christ); yet at the same time Gen 15, 17 etc., while also employing the same Heb. term mentioned above, makes it abundantly clear that MANY would be blessed in or through this ONE seed. Even in Gal 3:29, Paul makes this crystal clear, stating to the church in Galatia that "if you belong to Christ YOU are (editorial alert, editorial alert) [also] Abraham's seed" (the many in one corporate concept).

Furthermore, Jesus himself spoke to the Pharisees in Jn 8 re this idea of not belonging to God and because they did not belong to God, Jesus told them that their [spiritual] father was the devil (vv. 39-47). Just this one passage alone should tell any honest interpreter how to interpret both seeds in Gen 3:15, since the devil has more than one seed! And since this is the case, it's very likely that the woman's seed also consists of many! So, now let's apply this concept of ownership (belonging) to this Genesis passage.

God explains quite concisely in Gal 3:16 ...

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This does not negate the fact that believers are joint-heirs with Christ ... which is a great and precious promise in and of itself. However, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Heir spoken of in Gen 15, Gen 17, and the promise to Him is culminated in Rev when the Lord Jesus Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.

By God explicitly decreeing enmity between the woman and the devil, He implicitly reconciled Eve unto Himself in Gen 3:15, thereby removing the enmity between Him and the woman that she created by her sin. He befriended her! He essentially told the Serpent that the woman you deceived is Mine! She belongs to Me! You cannot have her!

But what of Adam? To whom did he belong!?

I've told you more than a few times ... Luke 3:38.

He's totally missing in the divine decree! Adam cannot possibly be included in the woman's seed since to talk of her seed is to speak to her spiritual descendant(s). The promised Messianic seed was still in the woman's future, so this rules Adam out, since the woman proceeded from him. But Gen 3:15 is talking about an offspring who would proceed from the woman herself!

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14).

The genealogy in Luke traces the lineage of Jesus through Mary ... and goes all the way back to Adam, the son of God.

Therefore, Adam can only belong to the Serpent's seed! There is no third option!

Yes ... there is a "third option!"

The offering made by God was sufficient to atone for the sin of Adam ... the coat provided to Adam was sufficient to cover his shame.

The Law of Logic called Excluded Middle also applies here!

nope ... I have provided the third option.

Moreover, just as Adam was clearly omitted from the decree in 3:15, likewise the befriended, reconciled woman was excluded from the expressed anger of the Lord that moved Him to drive Adam out from his Holy Presence in the Garden (3:22-24). And one will be very hard-pressed to find the rendering of the Heb term "garash" (Strong's 1644) ever used as an action against God-fearing believers! And this is why Eve is excluded in this passage! God, on the other hand, clearly did not think that Adam belonged in his Holy Presence in the Garden any longer! And we can know for certain by use of the definite articles in v. 23, and that God's anger was directed solely at Adam since he was banished from the Garden to work the ground from which he was taken! But Eve was not taken from the ground; she was taken from Adam's side!

Is it your claim that Eve remained in Eden?

And this brings me to this very important observation: Just as the Brazen Serpent incident in the Wilderness in Num 21 is a graphic illustration of the truth taught in Rom 9:21, likewise A&E are also such an illustration! Eve was not taken from a separate piece of ground in the Garden but was taken from the "clay" of Adam! She proceeded from the Adam "lump"! And God treated them both differently! In Eve's case, He chose her to be a vessel for honorable use; while in Adam's case, He chose him to be an vessel used for dishonorable use. Eve was used to bring godly seed into this world (the most prominent seed of all the Messiah who would come), while Adam was used as Satan's Agent of Death; for Adam alone is charged with mankind's ruin and destruction.

Eve did not birth the Messiah. Adam fathered Seth. Seth is named in the genealogy of the Lord Jesus Christ ... at the end of the day, both Adam and Eve were vessels of honor.

Therefore, this lame, anemic rebuttal of singular seeds in Gen 3:15 holds no water whatsoever. It's as weak as the objection based on Gen 3:21; for one will not find a scintilla of evidence that Adam ever repented and came to faith! Plus if one is going to use this verse as "positive proof" of A&E's salvation that is based solely on God's atoning provision of animal skin coverings for their sins, then we have universal salvation taught in scripture, since God would have been saving all humanity by that one work and provision of atonement.

not universal salvation, as salvation is by grace through faith.

What is revealed in the record is God's provision for remission of sin ... without shedding of blood is no remission ... which God made known the very same day Eve and Adam sinned.
.

 

[Rufus]

Yup ... exactly!!!

Calvinists are humble.
Their doctrine is humble.
They are very humble.
Actually they are fiercely humble.

And they take GREAT PRIDE in their humility and the fact that they do not self-exalt themselves.

They totally miss the point. No, it's inherent in the premise of their soteriology.
"I'm better than you because God chose me and not you." Believing that does not make you humble no matter how much you try to express humility. It causes you to be arrogant.

You forgot one: The most Humble of all God's chosen Servants: Jesus Christ in whose Cross I humbly boast.