Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

[DJT_47]

Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

Salvation: how is one saved according to scripture? See below. Do you just pick and choose one of the below scriptures (KJV) you like the best, accept and adopt it as your personal doctrine, and ignore the rest? Aren't they all right? Can or does scripture conflict with scripture, or can one scripture have preeminence over another? Or, are all somehow correct, and if so, how is that possible?

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 3:19

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 8:24

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Ephesians 2:8

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Wouldn't it be easier to just get water baptized instead of spending so much time fretting about whether it's necessary or not? Get it done and you don't have to think about it for the rest of your life. It obviously had great importance at the beginning and God is obviously pleased with it, so why do people kick against it so much? It's not something someone would regret doing.

 

[GWH]

Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

Salvation: how is one saved according to scripture? See below. Do you just pick and choose one of the below scriptures (KJV) you like the best, accept and adopt it as your personal doctrine, and ignore the rest? Aren't they all right? Can or does scripture conflict with scripture, or can one scripture have preeminence over another? Or, are all somehow correct, and if so, how is that possible?

John 3:16 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9-10 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 3:19 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 8:24 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Ephesians 2:8 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 22:16 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:15-16 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes, in order to interpret Scripture, a person has to pick and choose where to begin. In my hermeneutic, I begin with the instruction of Paul (1Thes. 5:21) to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” A name for testing everything is "truthseeking".

A truthseeker is guided by the question: What is most true or closest to the truth, especially the Truth of God’s Word? The method for discerning truth employs subjective logic that is made as objective as possible by learning from Scriptural and other truthseekers.

As a result of seeking ultimate truth, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide an interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements.

First, God loves and wants to save everyone. Seven Scriptures teaching divine omnilove include: 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4, which might be deemed the “7 pearls”. Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies: those who are ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ, pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, John 8:42-44).

Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16). This parameter is affirmed in the OT (Psa. 145:17): “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.”

Another important element in this Bible-based hermeneutic is that everyone lives by fallible faith/belief/opinion and sufficient knowledge of evidence rather than by absolute certainty or proof or coercion (2Cor. 5:7), so humility is needed. A logical train of thought leads an unbiased truthseeker to have a propensity to believe in an all-loving God, who is not tricky and does not hide the way to heaven (Heb. 11:6, Acts 13:10). Humanity’s understanding of God evolved or progressed through the millenniums, so that the OT was superseded by the NT, which is the apex of divine revelation (Heb. 7:18, 8:13, 9:15).

This hermeneutic seeks to harmonize disparate Scriptures as taught by Paul (in 1Thes. 5:21), exemplified by Jesus (in Matt. 4:6-7) and illustrated by the transparent overlays of bodily systems found in some books on anatomy. Considering all sides of an issue or doctrine is called dialectical theology. An interpreter should want to include all true assertions in the picture of reality without making a “Procrustean Body” by cutting off or ignoring parts that do not seem to fit, because the correct understanding must be self-consistent or else God would be tricky. Thus, when considering two different understandings (thesis A versus antithesis B), the truth may not be either one or the other but rather the proper harmonization of the two. (Both A and B = synthesis C.)

The Bible teaches (Gen. 1:3, John 1:1-3) that both the world and inspired words are expressions of God’s Word/Logos, and thus scientific and spiritual truths must be compatible or else God would be tricky. So, while belief that God is love and Jesus is Lord is based upon the biblical revelation, some knowledge also is gleaned from the natural sciences and common sense. While this interpretation of reality is influenced by the Bible, it also utilizes God-given logical thinking where the Bible seems silent, hoping to be guided by the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17).

God-given logic is the way every sane soul has access to the supreme Mind or Logos (1Cor. 2:11-16). Right reasoning is the glue that binds all individual truths together in one faith. Logic provides the rationale for believing that the history of humanity is not a farce, and it sustains the hope of experiencing love and joy in a future heavenly existence. The beauty of this hermeneutic is the harmonization of whatever is good and true. However, I realize that—just as frequently happens when a person shares favorite musical or scenic beauty with someone else—it may not move your soul like mine (Matt. 11:16-17).

 

[Gideon300]

Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

Salvation: how is one saved according to scripture? See below. Do you just pick and choose one of the below scriptures (KJV) you like the best, accept and adopt it as your personal doctrine, and ignore the rest? Aren't they all right? Can or does scripture conflict with scripture, or can one scripture have preeminence over another? Or, are all somehow correct, and if so, how is that possible?

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 3:19

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 8:24

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Ephesians 2:8

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The answer is yes. There is no "method" of salvation. First, God only saves sinners. Those who believe themselves to be "good" disqualify themselves. The basis of salvation is always faith in the sacrificial death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus and is always the choice of the will.

However we are led, it always brings us to the same place - the cross.

 

[Beckworth]

Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

Salvation: how is one saved according to scripture? See below. Do you just pick and choose one of the below scriptures (KJV) you like the best, accept and adopt it as your personal doctrine, and ignore the rest? Aren't they all right? Can or does scripture conflict with scripture, or can one scripture have preeminence over another? Or, are all somehow correct, and if so, how is that possible?

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 3:19

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 8:24

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Ephesians 2:8

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Psalms 119:160 - “ALL OF GOD’S word is TRUTH.” Or as the NKJV SAYS, “ The ENTIRETY OF GOD’S WORD IS TRUTH.” That means we must do EVERYTHING or ALL that God says to do. The Grace, justification, forgiveness of sins, salvation is God’s part—the part He promises to give to us. But we have a part that we must do for Him. We must believe John 3:16, repent Acts 3;19, confess Romans 10:10, and be baptized Acts 3:38. Those are God’s instructions in His word. That is God’s plan of salvation. If you think you do not have to obey all of these commands from God then tell me, how do you justify leaving some of them out? And how do you determine which ones you can leave out? Isn’t that risky? Aren’t you taking a chance with your soul’s salvation? God warns us not to take away from His word. Rev. 22:18-19.

James 2:22 says that faith and works work together—for what? For our salvation. It doesn’t matter whether you think baptism is a work or not— God commands it; therefore, obey God, trust what He says, He would not have told us to do it if it wasn’t necessary. So just believe what He says and obey Him. Stop arguing about it and trying to prove it is not necessary. Thats what Satan does. Stop and look at the big picture—Satan is the one who is trying to get you to not obey what God says.

2 Corinthians 11:3 - “ For I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve, by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST.”

The Bible Is relatively simple and plain. Just obey all of it and do what He says. The doctrine of Christ is not a “cafeteria” where you just “pick and choose” what you like and refuse the parts you don’t like. Many people claim to “TRUST” God and then do not believe half of what He says in His word. You can’t trust God and at the same time refuse to accept and believe plain Bible scriptures. No part of Christ’s law of faith is to be refused or left out.

Thanks for bring this to our attention.

 

[mailmandan]

However we are led, it always brings us to the same place - the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Mwestton]

Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma

Salvation: how is one saved according to scripture? See below. Do you just pick and choose one of the below scriptures (KJV) you like the best, accept and adopt it as your personal doctrine, and ignore the rest? Aren't they all right? Can or does scripture conflict with scripture, or can one scripture have preeminence over another? Or, are all somehow correct, and if so, how is that possible?

John 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 3:19

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Romans 8:24

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Ephesians 2:8

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I understand what your saying. My thing sometime is this. Sorry I don't know addresses good. " If the righteous are scarcely saved where will the sinner appear"?
And " For it is by Grace you have been saved ,not of yourselves it is a gift from God" Now my personal opinion is the word speaks to are hearts in the perfect timing of the Lord to move us on a path or a issue The good Shepard is guiding us in. And to answer your question no I don't think we should pick and choose but trust all of it.

 

[DJT_47]

I understand what your saying. My thing sometime is this. Sorry I don't know addresses good. " If the righteous are scarcely saved where will the sinner appear"?
And " For it is by Grace you have been saved ,not of yourselves it is a gift from God" Now my personal opinion is the word speaks to are hearts in the perfect timing of the Lord to move us on a path or a issue The good Shepard is guiding us in. And to answer your question no I don't think we should pick and choose but trust all of it.

To trust all of it is then to do all of it which unfortunately most don't, and rely on only those scriptures they like, and do in fact disregard the rest or relegate them to a lower position.

 

[Mwestton]

To trust all of it is then to do all of it which unfortunately most don't, and rely on only those scriptures they like, and do in fact disregard the rest or relegate them to a lower position.

Understood. I read so much longer overwhelmed and feel a controversial scripture sometimes. I try to focus in these moments what stands out to me most right now. We will never understand to the Bibles fullest on earth. I use to be the one to pick and choose to pardon my consciousness of the wrong I did. Not no more. I try to take it all in. I would explain with another scripture. Here is what I go by, "To him who knows what to do is good and does not do it,to him or is sin". So if I'm wrong and even if it is scripture I try my best to not. The devil used scripture with Jesus in the 40 days in the desert. With people who were like me I truly believe this is what is happening by Satan to make people believe they are ok neglecting and justified being ungodly, by not repenting, and many other things in their lifestyle. Word says"Be holy for I am holy" that's what must be regardless of what is contradictrial. We need discernment. The word talks about handling the word properly too. We must. Let me focus on me. I must. And I don't mind any the correction or conviction. I welcome it. I want to live according to God's word as I should. I guess I made my point. Sorry I get to talking and the holy Spirit leads me into a sermon! Happens all the time! I love it!! Good day.

 

[mailmandan]

To trust all of it is then to do all of it which unfortunately most don't, and rely on only those scriptures they like, and do in fact disregard the rest or relegate them to a lower position.

It's not about lowering certain scriptures to a lower position. It's about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

Believe, confess your belief, repent, be baptized.

Hmm.. most church of Christ folks place repent "before" confess your belief in their 4 step plan of salvation and also, repent actually "precedes" saving belief (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10) and water baptism "follows" saving belief. (Acts 10:43-47)

Now I personally have repented, and I believe the gospel, and I have confessed Christ upon and after conversion and I have been water baptized. So, even according to your gospel, I'm saved. Now according to you, what am I disregarding or lacking?

 

[Mwestton]

It's not about lowering certain scriptures to a lower position. It's about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

Hmm.. most church of Christ folks place repent "before" confess your belief in their 4 step plan of salvation and also, repent actually "precedes" saving belief (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10) and water baptism "follows" saving belief. (Acts 10:43-47)

Now I personally have repented, and I believe the gospel, and I have confessed Christ upon and after conversion and I have been water baptized. So, even according to your gospel, I'm saved. Now according to you, what am I disregarding or lacking?

My only advice is it's another scripture. I forgot exactly where or the whole one. I suggest Google it. A scripture talking about recieving with a noble heart. loyalty. Just trust the holy Spirit it's written he will guide us in all are ways and lead us to all truth. Please don't sweat it. It will mess with you. Proverbs 3:5-6

 

[mailmandan]

My only advice is it's another scripture. I forgot exactly where or the whole one. I suggest Google it. A scripture talking about recieving with a noble heart. loyalty. Just trust the holy Spirit it's written he will guide us in all are ways and lead us to all truth. Please don't sweat it. It will mess with you. Proverbs 3:5-6

Proverbs 3:5-6 is great scripture!

 

[Mwestton]

Proverbs 3:5-6 is great scripture!

Amen. We always need to stay plugged in to the Lords word..we forget and fail. That the importance of us. I'm sure you know that. I have to go now. I'm glad to help. Be well.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Salvation = A Doctrinal dilemma?

To trust all of it is then to do all of it which unfortunately most don't, and rely on only those scriptures they like, and do in fact disregard the rest or relegate them to a lower position.

How can "the lost" ( who think they are saved ) have any dilemma at all?

The Grace believers ( Saved "By Grace Through faith" ) might have Confusion while "growing
In Grace", But With Rightly Divided Scriptures should be on there way to maturity ( NO more
dilemmas, eh? ):

I have decided to follow Jesus? ( Scriptures Relegated To Proper Position , eh? )

Amen.

 

[DJT_47]

It's not about lowering certain scriptures to a lower position. It's about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.

Hmm.. most church of Christ folks place repent "before" confess your belief in their 4 step plan of salvation and also, repent actually "precedes" saving belief (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10) and water baptism "follows" saving belief. (Acts 10:43-47)

Now I personally have repented, and I believe the gospel, and I have confessed Christ upon and after conversion and I have been water baptized. So, even according to your gospel, I'm saved. Now according to you, what am I disregarding or lacking?

Believing that it's ALL necessary for salvation

 

[Mwestton]

Believing that it's ALL necessary for salvation

Hmmm? Paul mentions knowing is not enough. Do not decieve yourselves, be a doer if the word not just a hearer. Think what ya want though. We have free will.i won't debate

 

[DJT_47]

Hmmm? Paul mentions knowing is not enough. Do not decieve yourselves, be a doer if the word not just a hearer. Think what ya want though. We have free will.i won't debate

Knowing, believing, and acting upon that knowledge and belief as commanded = obedience

 

[Mwestton]

Knowing, believing, and acting upon that knowledge and belief as commanded = obedience

Exactly. You know what I love. Iron sharpens iron. This site is awesome. Faith and obedience covers a multitude of sin. Thanks man!!!

 

[NightTwister]

...most church of Christ folks place repent...

Daily. Frequently each day. You can never be too sure...

 

[Follower777]

I understand what your saying. My thing sometime is this. Sorry I don't know addresses good. " If the righteous are scarcely saved where will the sinner appear"?
And " For it is by Grace you have been saved ,not of yourselves it is a gift from God" Now my personal opinion is the word speaks to are hearts in the perfect timing of the Lord to move us on a path or a issue The good Shepard is guiding us in. And to answer your question no I don't think we should pick and choose but trust all of it.

Amen !
It seem to me that you are being inspired by the Holy Spirit, which only true Christians will be, no matter where they are on their personal journey. There are SO many who think they are Spirit led, but are only being led by there own "self-righteousness" rather than by Christ and His Righteousness.

Hint ! The End Times Church, God's Remnant Church, the Children of God. = ...

Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Blessings Brother