Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Jesus wasn't talking to the CHURCH He was only talking to His Disciples .

But God's elect were in Christ from all eternity. Plus you just ignore 2Tim 3:16 -- and you do that at your own peril!

But it's good to know that you think that all the commandments that God gave to His disciples do not apply to you. I guess God has different levels or different plans of salvation, right? I'm not surprised because it's very likely you're a dispensationalist and they tend to dichotomize all scripture!

 

[Rufus]

A man’s steps are of the Lord;​

How then can a man understand his own way?​

Anyone who memorizes that verse?
He might use it to justify his wrong thinking to thinking it must be right because it was from the Lord.

Keep this in mind.

The steps of Pharaoh's army into the parted water was of the Lord.

In Christ ...

So, it's wrong because "it was from the Lord"? And you think it's talking about literal steps with our feet?

 

[Genez]

No, it's your vainglorious, man-exalting interpretation whereby you glorify Adam's sin! Where in scripture is sin ever excused, discounted, dismissed or worse yet...glorified?

In yourself, maybe?

You almost have it perfected.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

Genesis 3:15 does not speak of "Eve's DOWNLINE spiritual descendants" (plural).

Genesis 3:15 speaks of only One seed of the woman ... the seed of the woman is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself ... the Messiah ... the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world ... the Lord Jesus Christ does not share His victory over satan with any other. He crushed the head of the serpent ... no other descendant of either Adam or Eve is to be included in the complete victory over satan.

And by extension all the elect who were chosen in Christ in eternity -- long before the Fall!

rolleyes ... your reasoning results in sinners saving themselves.

Genesis 3:15 speaks only of the seed (singular) of the woman ... Who is the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are beneficiaries of His bearing our sins on the cross.

This is why the focus is on the Messiah! You would have us believe that the woman's seed is only the Head and not his Body, as well!?

Did you hang on the cross with the Lord Jesus Christ at the time He was crucified?

The Lord Jesus Christ alone is the Sin Offering ... we are baptized unto Him when we are born again ... not, as you claim, before we are born again.

Also, this interpretation fits perfectly with Adam's observation of his wife who he named Eve (cf. Gen 3:20) because that name had a specific meaning!

yet you believe Adam was the spawn of satan ... so you've got the spawn of satan naming your beloved Eve correctly.

Tell me, please: To whose seed did God consign Adam?

Luke 3:38.
.

 

[Genez]

So, it's wrong because "it was from the Lord"? And you think it's talking about literal steps with our feet?

You have Teflon brain cells.

You can't get a grip on what another says very much.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

And since Adam did all that when he was in an innocent, "very good" state, how much worse off are his progeny who now how to fight their evil sin nature, the world and the devil? There is no one good (let alone "very good"), save for God -- which means all the sons of men come into this world with evil hearts.

in agreement only God is good ... however, Gen 3:22 states mankind, even in his fallen state, can know both good and evil.

Yet, for some reason, you believe mankind can know evil only ... in effect, you only believe half of what God says in Gen 3:22 ... so when God reaches out to mankind, evil is the only response of mankind under your rendering of Scripture.

Having eternal life graciously imparted to one's soul is a prerequisite to understanding scripture rightly -- something you can never seem to do.

r-i-g-h-t ... you're the only one who is able to "understand scripture rightly" ... cuz you're so "humble" ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Classic example of you calling good evil and evil good. You must be a bleeding heart liberal because this line of reasoning turns self-willed, prideful Adam into a victim or even worse...a martyr! Poor Adam just didn't have a choice. He had to do what he had to do.

Adam was the husband of Eve ... not a "victim" ... not a "martyr!"

I know of an older gentleman married to the wife of his youth (Prov 5:18) ... during the early days of covid, his wife contracted covid ... he personally took care of her, did not wear a mask, and stated he purposely kissed her on her mouth. He said he did this because if she died, he did not want to live without her.

He is a firm believer that God alone is the Healer and thankfully both he and his beautiful wife are still with us ... blessed and thankful for God's healing.

If you are married ... would you do the same for your wife?

Whether you are married or not married ... can you at least consider this deep love between husband and wife? If you cannot fathom this deep love, sad for you because that is the relationship which in Scripture is spoken of as a great mystery ... concerning Christ and the church.
.

 

[Genez]

Did you hang on the cross with the Lord Jesus Christ at the time He was crucified?
.

Actually?

Yes!

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me ​

and gave himself for me." ​

​

Galatians 2:20​

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rufus said:

I took YOUR logic to its only logical conclusion. When did Christ appoint YOU as a disciple? Give me chapter and verse. Look how you avoided my objection to your absurd hermeneutics! You didn't answer me re Jn 15:17! How can this text possibly apply to YOU since Jesus was only speaking to his elite, super-duper, special hand-picked disciples?

You did no such thing what you did was to add yourself to a discussion that is only for the Disciples.

The truth of the matter is that the same truth re John 15:17! is reiterated in the epistles ... so when Rufus says he "took YOUR logic to its only logical conclusion" ... it is wholly apparent that Rufus did not consider all logical conclusions and he should study and learn the following verses:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:11-12 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Actually?

Yes!

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me ​

and gave himself for me." ​

​

Galatians 2:20​

Amen! by the: One Distinct Baptism Which Is:

The One Unifying Baptism for us today, Under Grace!!

And, AMEN!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Actually?

Yes!

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me ​

and gave himself for me." ​

​

Galatians 2:20​

sorry Genez ... you were not on the cross when the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. You were baptized into His death the moment you were born again. If you or any other natural man was on that cross with the Lord Jesus Christ, that would have resulted in the Lamb having spot / blemish.

1Pe 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

.

 

[Edward429451]

That's so gay. LOL

Just kidding! I affirm the rainbow as a symbol of God keeping His promises to us... which is why I also contest those who try to shame people who affirm that God keeps His promises.

And good morning Jordon

The gays did not steal Gods rainbow. God's rainbow has 7 colors and the gay rainbow only has 6.

 

[Genez]

sorry Genez ... you were not on the cross when the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. .

Jesus was our substitute on the Cross.
God sees us being one with Jesus!

Here, Jesus said so Himself!

Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. ​

He went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, ​

so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he ​

might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As he neared Damascus on his journey, ​

suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard ​

a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”​

​

“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.​

​

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. Acts 9:1-5​

​

The Christians that Paul was abusing?
Jesus saw as them as being Himself.

We need to learn about our position in Christ.
For, we are now the Bride of Christ!

As Bride and Husband?
We have become "one flesh."

We are not dealing with the normal way of seeing things anymore.
That is why its so important to learn more and more Bible doctrine.

 

[LightBearer316]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

That’s an honest and thoughtful question, and it’s good that you’re thinking deeply about it. Scripture shows that God is absolutely sovereign — and that humans are genuinely responsible for their choices. The two truths are not enemies but partners in the mystery of God’s wisdom.

From the beginning, God gave mankind the ability to choose:

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV): “I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.”​

Joshua echoed the same when he said,

Joshua 24:15: “Choose you this day whom ye will serve…”​

These verses show that while God foreknows and ordains all things, He still calls us to make real, accountable decisions. We are not robots; we are moral agents created in His image.

At the same time, Scripture also teaches that our will is not entirely free from sin. After the Fall, human nature became corrupted — meaning that apart from God’s grace, we tend toward rebellion.
Romans 3:10–12: “There is none righteous, no, not one… There is none that seeketh after God.”

So yes, we have will — but it is bound by our nature until God intervenes. When the Spirit regenerates a person, He sets the will free to choose rightly, to love what is good, and to follow Christ.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV): “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”​

So basically:

• We truly choose — and are responsible for our choices.
• God truly reigns — and nothing happens outside His purpose.
• Grace alone frees the will to love and obey Him.
  
  The balance is this: our will is real, but God’s grace makes it effective.

“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you…” — John 15:16​

Grace and Peace

 

[LightBearer316]

The gays did not steal Gods rainbow. God's rainbow has 7 colors and the gay rainbow only has 6.

Seven in Scripture symbolizes divine completeness and perfection — the fullness of God’s covenant and promise.

 

[Magenta]

The gays did not steal Gods rainbow. God's rainbow has 7 colors and the gay rainbow only has 6.

I never said they did. Are you having comprehension problems?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

sorry Genez ... you were not on the cross when the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified

Precious friend, Does Not God Also State/See:

"...God, Who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not ​

as though they were." (Romans 4:17b AV)​

Accomplished By God Through The One Distinct Baptism Is How God Can Say:

"I am crucified With Christ"​

The One Unifying Baptism for us today, Under Grace.

Even if our finite mind cannot understand It, eh?

Amen.

 

[Kroogz]

The "natural man" Calvinist straw man argument has been thoroughly debunked already on this thread multiple times. Dozens and dozens.

The simple fact that the reformed/calvie/tulip crowd is on this forum "arguing" is a testament against their belief system.

By their own admission none can understand them. Everyone is blind. They would be better off debating a fence post out in the cow pasture.

If they actually believed what they preach......they would remain silent. They don't have a prayer breaking through to anyone.....according to their theory.

 

[BillyBob]

The simple fact that the reformed/calvie/tulip crowd is on this forum "arguing" is a testament against their belief system.

By their own admission none can understand them. Everyone is blind. They would be better off debating a fence post out in the cow pasture.

If they actually believed what they preach......they would remain silent. They don't have a prayer breaking through to anyone.....according to their theory.

I think you are correct. Talking to a Fwer is like talking to a fence post out in the cow pasture. However, only God can change the heart of man. We must make His truth known to as many as possible, regardless of their present condition. .

 

[Genez]

The simple fact that the reformed/calvie/tulip crowd is on this forum "arguing" is a testament against their belief system.

By their own admission none can understand them. Everyone is blind. They would be better off debating a fence post out in the cow pasture.

If they actually believed what they preach......they would remain silent. They don't have a prayer breaking through to anyone.....according to their theory.

It can be understood.
But, only if God forces upon the hearer irresistible logic to get it.