Saved by faith alone?

[GWH]

Salvation is a life-long process. Justification, which most people seem to call being saved, is a one-off that begins a long journey in which our faith is tested and proved. Those who fail the test will not be saved, even though they were justified. In other words, those who were saved by professing faith in the gospel will not be saved if they don't obey God and do his will.

Paul listed some sins he implied genuine Christians would not typically commit (in 1Cor. 6:9-10), saying: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Apparently, although a new Christian might commit such sins occasionally, it is inconceivable (because antithetical to NT teaching) that a mature Christian would commit them so typically that the person could be classified as an adulterer, for example (1John 3:6). Atheists might try to practice the “Golden Rule”, but the key issue for them on judgment day will be explaining what good reason they had for rejecting God rather than glorifying Him as the One who determines what is good/golden.

As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is the phase of instability, and although it is bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).

Someone who does not hunger and thirst after righteousness (Matt. 5:6) and LGW (Psa. 119:9) needs to reevaluate the sincerity of his/her profession of faith in the Lord. As Paul says (in 2Cor. 13:5), “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith.” The spiritual beauty of God’s truth is as awe-inspiring or attractive as the physical beauty of God’s world for one who has the Spirit/mind of Christ (1Cor. 2:12-16).

 

[studier]

You are making this out to be much more complicated than it really is. Many folks try to "shoehorn" works into salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) which sounds like the direction you are heading.

I think I've read this same answer before. Nevertheless, it only seems overcomplicated because faith-alone oversimplified pistis until it stopped resembling Scriptural faith. Now, faith-alone doesn’t know what biblical faith is - so it sees “works” where Scripture at times is just describing what pistis actually is and includes.

 

[mailmandan]

I think I've read this same answer before. Nevertheless, it only seems overcomplicated because faith-alone oversimplified pistis until it stopped resembling Scriptural faith. Now, faith-alone doesn’t know what biblical faith is - so it sees “works” where Scripture at times is just describing what pistis actually is and includes.

Do you understand that faith which saves trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you understand that faith which saves trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Does "Jesus alone" mean Jesus saves apart from doing his will?

 

[mailmandan]

Does "Jesus alone" mean Jesus saves apart from doing his will?

Jesus' will for us to be saved is to believe in Him for salvation. (John 6:40) Jesus saves us through faith based on the merits of his finished work of redemption alone (Romans 3:24-26) and not based on the merit of our works. (Romans 4:4-6)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus' will for us to be saved is to believe in Him for salvation. (John 6:40) Jesus saves us through faith based on the merits of his finished work of redemption alone (Romans 3:24-26) and not based on the merit of our works. (Romans 4:4-6)

John 6:40 says believe into (εἰς) Jesus. That's a Greek preposition meaning to move from without to within. Moving from one place to another requires work.

G1519 εἰς eis (eis) prep.
1. into or to (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I'm not saying that works of faith produced by believers today are accomplished under the law of Moses. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself"(Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now which works of faith/good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

So when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect works of faith/good works from the law of Moses. In Titus 3:5, Paul said that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. so "not saved by works" is not merely limited to specific works under the law of Moses, but works in general.

Doing works of law is not a bad thing. Trusting in them to justify one's self is vanity because all of the law has to be kept flawless in order to be justified, which no man can do but Christ. But if we trust in Jesus' blood for our justification then anything righteous we do is pleasing in God's eyes

 

[mailmandan]

John 6:40 says believe into (εἰς) Jesus. That's a Greek preposition meaning to move from without to within. Moving from one place to another requires work.

G1519 εἰς eis (eis) prep.
1. into or to (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time.

It requires a change of mind (repentance) going from unbelief to belief, which is not salvation by works.

 

[mailmandan]

Doing works of law is not a bad thing. Trusting in them to justify one's self is vanity because all of the law has to be kept flawless in order to be justified, which no man can do but Christ. But if we trust in Jesus' blood for our justification then anything righteous we do is pleasing in God's eyes

Doing good works that are produced "out of" faith are pleasing in God's eyes, but those good works are still not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Titus 3:5) Trusting in Jesus blood for justification is what saves us. (Romans 3:24-26)

 

[studier]

Do you understand that faith which saves trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

I affirm salvation is by grace through faith, not works. But the question is: what is pistis? Scripture doesn’t define it as mere trust - and faith-alone theology calls many of its defining facets ‘works.' Neither Rom4:5–6 nor Eph2:8–9 define pistis.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It requires a change of mind (repentance) going from unbelief to belief, which is not salvation by works.

That's the first step, but it's something that is repeated and perfected over a lifetime in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. Again, that's a lot of work.

 

[studier]

It requires a change of mind (repentance) going from unbelief to belief, which is not salvation by works.

Sounds like belief includes repentance and is not alone.

 

[GWH]

Sounds like belief includes repentance and is not alone.

Yes, per Rev. 2-3.

 

[studier]

John 6:40 says believe into (εἰς) Jesus. That's a Greek preposition meaning to move from without to within. Moving from one place to another requires work.

G1519 εἰς eis (eis) prep.
1. into or to (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time.

I'm just repeating a good statement.

Takes me back some verses in context to Jesus' command to unbelievers to work.

 

[studier]

Yes, per Rev. 2-3.

And much earlier in the process.

 

[mailmandan]

I affirm salvation is by grace through faith, not works.

I once heard a Roman Catholic also say they affirm that salvation is by grace through faith, not works, but then after we discussed it further, what that Roman Catholic actually believed was that we are saved by grace through faith "infused" with works (good works and just not works of the law) and then those works become meritorious towards receiving salvation, which is not what we read in Ephesians 2:8,9.

Here is what that Roman Catholic said to me: We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

But the question is: what is pistis? Scripture doesn’t define it as mere trust - and faith-alone theology calls many of its defining facets ‘works.' Neither Rom4:5–6 nor Eph2:8–9 define pistis.

Well, if you are not satisfied with Hebrews 11:1 or with the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, then I probably cannot convince you any further. Something tells me that you are determined to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works, similar to what that Roman Catholic did.

 

[mailmandan]

That's the first step, but it's something that is repeated and perfected over a lifetime in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. Again, that's a lot of work.

It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Abraham believed God, and righteousness was imputed to him for his faith. Faith-aloners seem to be saying that imputation of righteousness by itself saves a person

And [Abram] believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. Genesis 15:6​

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Years later Abraham obeyed God's command of circumcision

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Genesis 17:10​

And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. Genesis 17:24​

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And after that he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac on the altar.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. Genesis 22:12​

And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: Genesis 22:16​

Abraham's obeying what God said were the proof that he was persuaded by and trusted God's words, and through his obedience his faith was perfected. According to James, without this proof his faith would have been dead, empty, vain.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith was a fellower worker with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James 2:20-23​

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So faith compels us to act, and without our faith cooperating with our action, faith is essentially meaningless. Which raises the question, what would have been Abraham's fate if he had not obeyed God and merely trusted in his imputed righteousness, ie faith alone?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification.

Sanctification is work. Without ongoing sanctification there is no salvation. It sounds like you're confusing salvation with justification alone

 

[mailmandan]

Sounds like belief includes repentance and is not alone.

Nobody is saying belief alone in that sense. "I believe but I never repented" is an oxymoron. Those who believe and are saved (Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16 etc..) have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe in Jesus Christ (trust in Jesus Christ alone) for salvation. Folks who attack faith alone theology don't even seem to understand what is meant by faith alone.