Saved by faith alone?

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Is doing the will of God works?
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Doing God's will "after" we have been saved through faith is works. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Not to be confused with God's will in order for us to become saved. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
 
mailmandan said:
Doing God's will "after" we have been saved through faith is works. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Not to be confused with God's will in order for us to become saved. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
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Jesus plainly said that those who don't do the will of God, what you call works, will not enter the kingdom of God.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Jesus plainly said that those who don't do the will of God, what you call works, will not enter the kingdom of God.
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The will of God for us to enter heaven is that we believe in the Son. (John 6:40) Jesus did not add works to believing here and Jesus already drew a line in the sand on who will not be condemned and who will be condemned in John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:14-18, the apostle Paul said for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. This is God's will for us "after" we have been saved and not in order to become saved. Big difference.
 
mailmandan said:
The will of God for us to enter heaven is that we believe in the Son. (John 6:40) Jesus did not add works to believing here and Jesus already drew a line in the sand on who will not be condemned and who will be condemned in John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:14-18, the apostle Paul said for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. This is God's will for us "after" we have been saved and not in order to become saved. Big difference.
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Prayer is works. Doing good to others is works. Ceasing from evil is works. Believing is just the first step.
 
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.
 
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mailmandan said:
The will of God for us to enter heaven is that we believe in the Son. (John 6:40) Jesus did not add works to believing here and Jesus already drew a line in the sand on who will not be condemned and who will be condemned in John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:14-18, the apostle Paul said for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. This is God's will for us "after" we have been saved and not in order to become saved. Big difference.
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Ephesians2-10s.png

Ephesians 2 v 10 We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath prepared before ordained that we should walk in them.
:)
 
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mailmandan said:
First step? So, you believe we are saved by faith AND works instead of saved by grace through faith, not works? (Ephesians 2:8,9)
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Justification does most certainly comes by faith AND works.

Justification does not come by faith alone. We may debate what kind of works are needed for justification but not the need itself.

This is Bible 101.

What kind of works are you talking about?
 
TrustandObey said:
Justification does most certainly comes by faith AND works.
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Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (and works? NO simply faith) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Justification does not come by faith alone.
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Justified by faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Romans 5:1) hence, faith alone. Faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 6. God imputes righteousness apart from works.

We may debate what kind of works are needed for justification but not the need itself.
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Works-salvationists will typically say we are saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law) but that argument is bogus because when it comes to the "moral" aspect of the law, you "cannot dissect" good works from the law. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37-40; James 2:15-16)

This is Bible 101.
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We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:21,24) This is Bible 101.

The Greek word for justified "dikaioo" has more than one meaning, depending on the context.

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

So, it is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

What kind of works are you talking about?
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We are not saved by works in general. (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).
 
mailmandan said:
Justified by faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Romans 5:1) hence, faith alone. Faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.
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The heart of another manmade theological system - this one telling us it knows what "Faith" is and is not while adding words to Scripture.
 
studier said:
The heart of another manmade theological system - this one telling us it knows what "Faith" is and is not while adding words to Scripture.
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What is a manmade theological system is "adding works" to justified by faith in Romans 5:1 when Paul simply said faith. BTW: Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
 
mailmandan said:
First step? So, you believe we are saved by faith AND works instead of saved by grace through faith, not works? (Ephesians 2:8,9)
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It's the first step that is repeated throughout life. No, we are not saved by works. but faith without works is dead; it's just mental belief. A changed heart wants to love, be holy and work righteousness, which all take work. We need to examine ourselves and determine what is the motivation for what we do.

Is it to earn points so God owes us something, or to feel better than others, or to look good to other men, or any number of other self-oriented things? Or is it from a heartfelt need to make others' lives better, to help someone, to have a clean heart so we can be close to God, to not hurt others because that hurts our and God's hearts, or to express gratitude to God, etc.

In the first case, those kinds of works are seeking to establish a self-righteouness in which we try to put ourselves in a position where God owes us something bcause we earned it. Those come from an evil, unbelieving heart and are not pleasing to God because they are not done in the faith of Christ.

In the second case, those kinds of works outflow from a loving, godly heart that takes from what we have and gives to others, seeking no reward because the work is the reward. With those works God is well-pleased because they work the faith of Christ. Working faith builds strong bodies, so to speak.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's the first step that is repeated throughout life. No, we are not saved by works. but faith without works is dead; it's just mental belief. A changed heart wants to love, be holy and work righteousness, which all take work. We need to examine ourselves and determine what is the motivation for what we do.

Is it to earn points so God owes us something, or to feel better than others, or to look good to other men, or any number of other self-oriented things? Or is it from a heartfelt need to make others' lives better, to help someone, to have a clean heart so we can be close to God, to not hurt others because that hurts our and God's hearts, or to express gratitude to God, etc.

In the first case, those kinds of works are seeking to establish a self-righteouness in which we try to put ourselves in a position where God owes us something bcause we earned it. Those come from an evil, unbelieving heart and are not pleasing to God because they are not done in the faith of Christ.

In the second case, those kinds of works outflow from a loving, godly heart that takes from what we have and gives to others, seeking no reward because the work is the reward. With those works God is well-pleased because they work the faith of Christ. Working faith builds strong bodies, so to speak.
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Why didn't you simply say we are not saved by works in the first place? I agree with James that faith without works is dead; and is just mental belief, like the faith of demons. (James 2:19)

If someone merely says/claims they have faith yet end up producing no works at all to evidence their claim, then, they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not genuine faith. Agreed?
 
mailmandan said:
Doing God's will "after" we have been saved through faith is works. 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Not to be confused with God's will in order for us to become saved. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Click to expand...

Nor should good or godly works motivated by saving faith be confused with works done in order to earn salvation.
 
mailmandan said:
What is a manmade theological system is "adding works" to justified by faith in Romans 5:1 when Paul simply said faith. BTW: Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
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Hebrews 11:1 doesn’t define pistis - it engages Greek reasoning rhetorically. And since the faith-alone system isolates faith so sharply, one might expect it to clearly define biblical faith. But it doesn’t - it at minimum strips pistis of its relational depth and adds words to Scripture to protect itself. Shifting to “faith vs. works” avoids the charge of redefinition by changing the subject.
 
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