Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Cameron143 said:
I believe God chose a people to Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. It's not a lottery. God never chooses out of a group of people. That would be selection. Instead, God elects. He chooses a people, and then creates them. Just like He did when He created Israel out of Abraham's progeny. He promised Abraham that He would make a great nation from him, and then He did it.
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2 Timothy 1 verse 9~ He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11~ In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will.
 
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The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.” Isaiah 14 verse 24 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations. Psalm 33 verse 11 Our God is in heaven; He does as He pleases. Psalm 115 verse 3 Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. Proverbs 19 verse 21 In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5
 
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Cameron143 said:
I believe God chose a people to Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. It's not a lottery. God never chooses out of a group of people. That would be selection. Instead, God elects. He chooses a people, and then creates them. Just like He did when He created Israel out of Abraham's progeny. He promised Abraham that He would make a great nation from him, and then He did it.
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Interesting how easily and frequently these FWers blaspheme God. Clearly they were not chosen
to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.

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John 3 verse 3, John 1 verse 13, James 1 verse 18, Romans 8 verse 9b, 1 Peter 2 verse 9 ~ Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. You are chosen to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. My soul will exult in my God, for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness. Plus Isaiah 61 verse 10
 
Cameron143 said:
If you would pay better attention to what I actually post rather than what you think I post, you wouldn't have so much anxiety.
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My attention indeed comes at a cost, and is far too valuable to be vainly squandered on every hack and charlatan that demands payment.
 
cv5 said:
My attention indeed comes at a cost, and is far too valuable to be vainly squandered on every hack and charlatan that demands payment.
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And yet, here you are wasting time telling me how valuable your time is.
 
Cameron143 said:
I believe God chose a people to Himself in Christ before the foundation of the world. It's not a lottery. God never chooses out of a group of people. That would be selection. Instead, God elects. He chooses a people, and then creates them. Just like He did when He created Israel out of Abraham's progeny. He promised Abraham that He would make a great nation from him, and then He did it.
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The great nation was not about individual spiritual salvation, it was to service.

He selects a people (since he knows all people) and then creates them >>> same.

And all the other people are just fillers, hated by God in fact, fitting themselves for destruction. :rolleyes:

Oh but he is sovereign, that is all important attribute, as long as we can pull up the sovereignty card the doctrine is fully covered....more :rolleyes::rolleyes:

But it is stated >> "people do not agree with the doctrine then they do not agree with/accept God' sovereignty" False!

We do not agree with you characterization of God which is incongruent with divine revelation.
 
Genez said:
God in eternity past, selected out of all people whom He knows would believe, to be the chosen for who would be the Bride of Christ.

That is what God chose us for!
To be the Bride of Christ!

OT Jews were not selected and chosen to become the Bride!

grace and peace .........
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Well it certainly it not what @Cameron argues, that is for sure.
 
HeIsHere said:
The great nation was not about individual spiritual salvation, it was to service.

He selects a people (since he knows all people) and then creates them >>> same.

And all the other people are just fillers, hated by God in fact, fitting themselves for destruction. :rolleyes:

Oh but he is sovereign, that is all important attribute, as long as we can pull up the sovereignty card the doctrine is fully covered....more :rolleyes::rolleyes:

But it is stated >> "people do not agree with the doctrine then they do not agree with/accept God' sovereignty" False!

We do not agree with you characterization of God which is incongruent with divine revelation.
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Lazarus was dead and in the grave. When Jesus raised him, did Lazarus become alive and then responded, or did he respond and then come alive?

Did Jesus get Lazarus' permission to raise him, or did He do so without consulting Lazarus?

Perhaps if you actually answered some questions, your understanding of God from a biblical perspective would come more in line with who God actually reveals Himself to be.

Also, I never said you didn't believe in the sovereignty of God; only that you don't fully understand it.
 
cv5 said:
Welp....as you can see, here come the vague wet blankets, dodges, misdirection, and denials.

As soon as the dust settles, they are gonna be back in business selling their wares to the unwary.
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Yes this doctrine relies on the cover provided by a very faulty view of God's "sovereignty."

They say "you deny the sovereignty of god" to the unsuspecting it will have the intended effect of making the person feel guilty and then buy into this whole bad doctrine.

It really is all psychological and has nothing to do with the God of the Bible.
 
Cameron143 said:
Lazarus was dead and in the grave. When Jesus raised him, did Lazarus become alive and then responded, or did he respond and then come alive?

Did Jesus get Lazarus' permission to raise him, or did He do so without consulting Lazarus?

Perhaps if you actually answered some questions, your understanding of God from a biblical perspective would come more in line with who God actually reveals Himself to be.

Also, I never said you didn't believe in the sovereignty of God; only that you don't fully understand it.
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Didn't Lazarus believe in Jesus before he died, that He was who He claimed to Be?
 
Cameron143 said:
Be glad to answer your question when you have done me the same courtesy.
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Lazarus died trusting in Jesus and was raised from life. When you're dead, your mind, your body, your will is defunct just as Jesus depended, and trusted, believed, on God to raise Him when He died.
 
Mem said:
Lazarus died trusting in Jesus and was raised from life. When you're dead, your mind, your body, your will is defunct just as Jesus depended, and trusted, believed, on God to raise Him when He died.
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What we have in the story of Lazarus is a real life parable. God sovereignly raised Lazarus from the dead for His purposes and for His glory. This is the reason He does all things.
Yes Lazarus was a believer. It's immaterial to the story. Believers have the expectation of being resurrected on the last day, but have no promise to be raised from the dead.
 
Cameron143 said:
Lazarus was dead and in the grave. When Jesus raised him, did Lazarus become alive and then responded, or did he respond and then come alive?

Did Jesus get Lazarus' permission to raise him, or did He do so without consulting Lazarus?
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These questions put you in @cv5 pre birth lottery salvation.

We are dead. We are a corpse. We cannot respond to God..........We all are in the same boat as Lazarus.....Dead as a door nail.
 
Kroogz said:
These questions put you in @cv5 pre birth lottery salvation.

We are dead. We are a corpse. We cannot respond to God..........We all are in the same boat as Lazarus.....Dead as a door nail.
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The use of the term lottery manifests your ignorance of God and His ways.
 
Cameron143 said:
What we have in the story of Lazarus is a real life parable. God sovereignly raised Lazarus from the dead for His purposes and for His glory. This is the reason He does all things.
Yes Lazarus was a believer. It's immaterial to the story. Believers have the expectation of being resurrected on the last day, but have no promise to be raised from the dead.
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Maybe I would do better if the quiz were given in a multiple-choice format?
 
HeIsHere said:
Well it certainly it not what @Cameron ???argues???, that is for sure.
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Since when does irrational ignorant rambling predicated upon grievous dogmatic error constitute a cogent well reasoned Biblically grounded argument?

You could pull any pagan off the street and do better.
 
Kroogz said:
These questions put you in @cv5 pre birth lottery salvation.

We are dead. We are a corpse. We cannot respond to God..........We all are in the same boat as Lazarus.....Dead as a door nail.
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The truly profound intended and extended lessons of the raising of Lazarus is waaaayyyy past the super-determinist pay grade.
Good luck obtaining useful exegesis out of their infantile babbling.
 
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