Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

It only mans thought process that has a will of it's own, because it suffered a terrible loss of innocence.

But Yep the only thing that's free about it is the side of its ruthlessness without it's innocence

Mans mind his “ thinking “ was compromised by the forbidden knowledge of good and evil.

That was never meant for mans mind and thinking it’s why God forbid them and told them “ Thou shall not …lest you die “

Our mind is meant to be filled with gods word his leading only not the knowledge of both good and evil but the word of God alone is meant to guide and teach and lead us ( mankind )

we aren’t meant to know good and evil and then decide which is acceptable like we do now mostly by our Will through opening good and evil that’s not for mankind .

“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some here seem to think this is trickery by God and he wanted them to eat the fruit but really he’s telling them plainly his Will with his own word like he always has done to mankind he just tells us his Will with his word . He puts man in Eden tells him “ don’t eat the fruit you’ll surely die “ then Satan deceived the woman and she speaks to the man and they both eat the fruit and know good and evil now .

So now man is ejected from Eden having become “ as gods knowing good and evil thier minds and knowledge has now changed they have changed and so look what happens

“And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22-24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

gid had placed them in Eden and warned them not to partake of that knowledge knowledge is operating within our mind. So our minds have been now changed and corrupted with this forbidden knowledge of duality good and evil polar opposites in the spiritual world now resides within mankind’s mind . Creating this unenviable position

“If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Now man who was made in Gods image not conflicted between doing good and evil but created very good and made to learn from God and fellowship with him in Eden being made in his likeness and image now they had transgressed his only commandment and partaken of forbidden knowledge .

This corrupted thier thinking now it’s conflicted between good and evil we do both good and evil now because our minds and hearts became corrupted with all the evil knowledge in the world Now still through prior generetions of human kind.


murder and war and rape and pillage and robbery adultery ect these are ancient things that came from mankind’s corrupted Will following evil rather than good which also is there and available to all in the world because of the gospel and the true knowledge of god he said would surely save us the fruit of the tree of life …. The gospel by which we can have eternal life

 

[posthuman]

God did "curse" Adam by driving THE MAN out of God's glorious temple, i.e. the Garden. He drove Adam out from his Holy Presence!

in this matter you have your private opinion, but i have the Word of God.

Proverbs 3:11-12​

despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of His correction: ​

for whom the LORD loveth He correcteth; even as a father the son in whom He delighteth.​

​

Scripture does not curse Adam our forefather, neither does God.

Proverbs 20:20 ​

Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.​

 

[posthuman]

And I surely would like chapter and verse about the so called declaration of God that he made about Adam "to all the angels".

Genesis 3:22

who is God talking to? to whom does He command, "Behold!"...?

there aren't many choices.

1. Himself?
2. the animals?
3. the angels?

door number 3, m8

 

[Jordon]

Adam's "confession" (so-called) was anything but sincere. It was one of those confessions that essentially said, "Oh yeah I ate the forbidden fruit, BUT __________ _________ __________ ___________. (So feel free to fill in the blanks if you don't like what Adam said in Gen 3:12 .) It was virtually a BUT Monkey confession without the "but" because of the way Adam framed his reply to God.

As far as the "tree of life" is concerned, it would be comical, if it weren't so sad, that CV5 gives Adam credit for not eating from that particular tree. But did God share CV5's high and exalted opinion of Adam? Apparently NOT; for God DROVE his ENEMY, whom he very obviously did not trust, out of his Garden so that he wouldn't eat the fruit of that tree. And the Hebrew term translated "drove" is very often used regarding either God's enemies or the enemies of his chosen covenant people -- and it's a strong term. God drove out the pagan nations from the Promised Land; Christ drove out the money changers from the temple, etc. God didn't just politely show Adam the door out of the Garden. He forcefully and unceremoniously ejected Adam! Adam was cast out, expelled, thrust out of the Garden. Very strange and odd action to take against someone whom God allegedly reconciled (befriended) along with Eve.

Well God still loved Adam
and really God still let Adam be loved by eve, they had children together. I have heard it said before Adam made confession but it was a worthless confession and not a confession worthy of reward or credit, but what we can not do is get annoyed by it As in there fallen condition there confession was always going to bad.

The other fact is they where influence so theres another reason not to be annoyed, but I have heard people say they believe Adam and eve could have confessed to some degree,
But the story of adam and eve is not easy to accept for anyone and people search for the deepest answers, so we should not be annoyed by what people come to believe, or cv5, what I am annoyed by is cv5 becoming annoyed with us for not believing him.

I can't say I'm happy your belief fully, which seems to suggest eve was forgiven but but not Adam, as that could annoy someone to prove otherwise.

 

[Magenta]

Genesis 3:22

who is God talking to? to whom does He command, "Behold!"...?

there aren't many choices.

1. Himself?
2. the animals?
3. the angels?

door number 3, m8

One of us is the Godhead. So yes, I would say number 1

 

[posthuman]

God did not promise Adam a Messiah. Ask these basic hermeneutical questions about Gen 3:15: To WHOM was God speaking in the verse? To WHOM was His decree directed? Did God even mention Adam in the text?

the fact that the seed of the Serpent would be destroyed by The Seed of Woman was not said in secret, and has bearing to all of creation.

because Adam heard and believed this gospel, he changed his wife's name to Eve - a tacit confession of faith in the promises of God

 

[posthuman]

One of us is the Godhead. So yes, I would say number 1

He commands Himself, from Whom nothing is hidden, and Who knows all things, to behold?

 

[Magenta]

He commands Himself, from Whom nothing is hidden, and Who knows all things, to behold?

Eh? Let us make mankind in our image. Same us. The angels did not create mankind.

Does God talk to Himself? Why yes, yes He does.

 

[Jordon]

Mans mind his “ thinking “ was compromised by the forbidden knowledge of good and evil.

That was never meant for mans mind and thinking it’s why God forbid them and told them “ Thou shall not …lest you die “

Our mind is meant to be filled with gods word his leading only not the knowledge of both good and evil but the word of God alone is meant to guide and teach and lead us ( mankind )

we aren’t meant to know good and evil and then decide which is acceptable like we do now mostly by our Will through opening good and evil that’s not for mankind .

“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Some here seem to think this is trickery by God and he wanted them to eat the fruit but really he’s telling them plainly his Will with his own word like he always has done to mankind he just tells us his Will with his word . He puts man in Eden tells him “ don’t eat the fruit you’ll surely die “ then Satan deceived the woman and she speaks to the man and they both eat the fruit and know good and evil now .

So now man is ejected from Eden having become “ as gods knowing good and evil thier minds and knowledge has now changed they have changed and so look what happens

“And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22-24‬ ‭NIV‬‬

gid had placed them in Eden and warned them not to partake of that knowledge knowledge is operating within our mind. So our minds have been now changed and corrupted with this forbidden knowledge of duality good and evil polar opposites in the spiritual world now resides within mankind’s mind . Creating this unenviable position

“If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Now man who was made in Gods image not conflicted between doing good and evil but created very good and made to learn from God and fellowship with him in Eden being made in his likeness and image now they had transgressed his only commandment and partaken of forbidden knowledge .

This corrupted thier thinking now it’s conflicted between good and evil we do both good and evil now because our minds and hearts became corrupted with all the evil knowledge in the world Now still through prior generetions of human kind.


murder and war and rape and pillage and robbery adultery ect these are ancient things that came from mankind’s corrupted Will following evil rather than good which also is there and available to all in the world because of the gospel and the true knowledge of god he said would surely save us the fruit of the tree of life …. The gospel by which we can have eternal life

This is probably accurate to be fair, all of it.

Yep I've heard it said God was to blame to, but it's mainly down to fact that people haven't fully accepted Gods will and come to know his will inside of them, that's still in them in there fallen condition. One part of that God's breath of life the other a prick in the conscience, Yep that's all it is, nothing that I should become offended by m, as the lord will what know what to do with them

 

[Pilgrimshope]

the fact that the seed of the Serpent would be destroyed by The Seed of Woman was not said in secret, and has bearing to all of creation.

because Adam heard and believed this gospel, he changed his wife's name to Eve - a tacit confession of faith in the promises of God

amen “ Eve “ the mother of all the living

 

[Jordon]

the fact that the seed of the Serpent would be destroyed by The Seed of Woman was not said in secret, and has bearing to all of creation.

because Adam heard and believed this gospel, he changed his wife's name to Eve - a tacit confession of faith in the promises of God

Can you show me in scripture where you write is written the part where adam changed eves name to eve because he believed and had faith ?

Was it Inner faith ? Inner imputed righteousness ! Because they had only just fallen

I need to see scripture they where imputed with faith and righteousness, I've asked several times now

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is probably accurate to be fair, all of it.

Yep I've heard it said God was to blame to, but it's mainly down to fact that people haven't fully accepted Gods will and come to know his will inside of them, that's still in them in there fallen condition. One part of that God's breath of life the other a prick in the conscience, Yep that's all it is, nothing that I should become offended by m, as the lord will what know what to do with them

“people haven't fully accepted Gods will and come to know his will inside of them, that's still in them in there fallen condition. “

right . even when we hear gods will we still have the struggle to carry it fully out because of the evil that’s present within us because of that knowledge

That knowledge of evil was not meant for us because it causes this fallen condition

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

That’s the corruption . Good and evil. We were made to hear what god said for us to believe and do and not meant to take in the conflicted knowledge of good and evil we were already good and pure just learning from god blessed and fellowshipping with him but we took in a conflict between good and also evil in our selves in our minds we aren’t made for that knowledge because it put mankind in this position

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15‬ ‭

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Adam and Eve never had to choose between good and evil because they didn’t know it good and evil meant nothing to them they had this instead

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we’re told again in the gospel

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But the world still tries to pull us away from his word telling other things . We can let go of that thing where we decide what’s acceptable of good and evil and accept those things God said will lead to life and death . His Will is fornus to accept his judgements and let go of our lusts .we find it all here


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Because of good and evil there’s a constant conflict this conflict actually inside us because of good and evil

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭

awe can accept the gospel and follow the spirit we receive through believing

 

[posthuman]

well first thing is God would have given him the promise because he was the first man alive and all men would come through him,

Adam could have been anyone of us, as it's declared because sin entered in Adams nature it effected all mans nature.

Well its without doubt God still loved Adam, but unless I'm mistaken when someone repents to the lord they can be forgiven but still punished ?

Adam was given a lifetime sentence of punishment do you still think his confession was good ?

Cuz I don't see it, Adam may well have watched and let eve eat from the tree then accepted it himself,
I mean with all theses imaginations going on about Adam and eve why should this imagination be any less credible since adams punishment was severe.

It was Adams Job to protect the woman, and adams confessions and answer was, this woman you gave me give me some and I ate it.

That woman was his wife and no doubt a wife that God would have created that Adam could fall in love with.

So no his confession was not good because he had fallen, a confession in a fallen condition means nothing at first, and that's what it was a confession that was nothing,

Before the fall he would have loved eve watched her been besotted by her as God would have made sure of that , then after the fall he was all the opposite, he called eve nothing when he this woman you gave me

What's really incredible here is cv5 admits if they had ate from the tree he would have lived in a state of dieing forever, but yet he believes he was imputed with righteousness, because he made a connection between a garment of skin and a white robe ?

So what were left with to believe is Adam was imputed with righteousness because he made a sincere confession, he was then given a lifetime sentence of punishment and clothed in the same white robe as holy men in heaven ? And he was given great credit for not eating from the tree of life.

All I can say is wow what weed is he smoking


But do u hold any grudge I've thus belief nope as because it our nature that's responsible.

I don't dislike cv5 for not believing him but he pities us for not believing him.

Is this real bro I mean am I really having this discussion ?

being saved does not mean we will have no troubles on earth nor that we will never physically die.

so why is it any wonder the figure of Him Who was to come lived out his earthly days humbling bearing the chastisement of his Father?

 

[posthuman]

Can you show me in scripture where you write is written the part where adam changed eves name to eve because he believed and had faith ?

Was it Inner faith ? Inner imputed righteousness ! Because they had only just fallen

I need to see scripture they where imputed with faith and righteousness, I've asked several times now

well, why do you think he changed his dead wife's name to "life"?

the information is in the account; he did it immediately after God finished speaking. so he did it because of something God said.
which amazing thing God had said fits with this amazing thing Adam did?

imo it's pretty obvious.

 

[cv5]

the fact that the seed of the Serpent would be destroyed by The Seed of Woman was not said in secret, and has bearing to all of creation.

Of course. Far from this edict being whispered in secret, it was thunderously proclaimed during a public trial (with a vast audience looking on) as a consequence of judgement being rendered on behalf of the plaintiffs Adam and the Woman.

Evidently, this legal format and framework embedded in Genesis 3 is completely unknown to @Rufus buddy. Probably @Magenta too.

Evidently they didn't do the readings, and played hooky rather than studiously and dutifully hearing the 30-40 hours of lectures necessary to get a grip on the topic.

 

[cv5]

well first thing is God would have given him the promise because he was the first man alive and all men would come through him,

Adam could have been anyone of us, as it's declared because sin entered in Adams nature it effected all mans nature.

Well its without doubt God still loved Adam, but unless I'm mistaken when someone repents to the lord they can be forgiven but still punished ?

Adam was given a lifetime sentence of punishment do you still think his confession was good ?

Cuz I don't see it, Adam may well have watched and let eve eat from the tree then accepted it himself,
I mean with all theses imaginations going on about Adam and eve why should this imagination be any less credible since adams punishment was severe.

It was Adams Job to protect the woman, and adams confessions and answer was, this woman you gave me give me some and I ate it.

That woman was his wife and no doubt a wife that God would have created that Adam could fall in love with.

So no his confession was not good because he had fallen, a confession in a fallen condition means nothing at first, and that's what it was a confession that was nothing,

Before the fall he would have loved eve watched her been besotted by her as God would have made sure of that , then after the fall he was all the opposite, he called eve nothing when he this woman you gave me

What's really incredible here is cv5 admits if they had ate from the tree he would have lived in a state of dieing forever, but yet he believes he was imputed with righteousness, because he made a connection between a garment of skin and a white robe ?

So what were left with to believe is Adam was imputed with righteousness because he made a sincere confession, he was then given a lifetime sentence of punishment and clothed in the same white robe as holy men in heaven ? And he was given great credit for not eating from the tree of life.

All I can say is wow what weed is he smoking


But do u hold any grudge I've thus belief nope as because it our nature that's responsible.

I don't dislike cv5 for not believing him but he pities us for not believing him.

Is this real bro I mean am I really having this discussion ?

Since when is sincere contrition and confession "not good"?

 

[Jordon]

well, why do you think he changed his dead wife's name to "life"?

the information is in the account; he did it immediately after God finished speaking. so he did it because of something God said.
which amazing thing God had said fits with this amazing thing Adam did?

imo it's pretty obvious.

That's Imagination it a nice thought and all, but it doesn't say Adam was imputed with faith l.

It a caring thought, adam had named all the animals to hadn't he ? Did Adam still think he was fully alive when he called his wife eve ?

 

[Jordon]

Since when is sincere contrition and confession "not good"?

your not going start getting annoyed again are you, do you realise your asking us all to believe Adam was saved in the blink of an eye that's took most people half there life ?

 

[Jordon]

Lol what's funny

 

[cv5]

your not going start getting annoyed again are you, do you realise your asking us all to believe Adam was saved in the blink of an eye that's took most people half there life ?

The brilliance and stupendous spiritual and intellectual prowess and insights of Adam are off the charts.
He resisted the full brunt of Satan's attacks time and time again......and was not deceived. Never deceived. Ever.
Which of course is an attribute that MADE HIM A TYPE OF CHRIST. Among others.

1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

The archangel Michael on the other hand demurred when faced with Satan's seductive lies......

Jde 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

I wager that most men today would fall like dominoes under the same kind of assault.
And BTW, Judas-Satan likely had ALL of the disciples "on his side" when he dared to rebuke the Lord here. Easy peasy.

[Jhn 12:4 KJV]
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him,

[Jhn 12:5 KJV]
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

Mat 26:8
But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?