That's not what it says. It says blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next. In what world is it forgiven?
Saved by faith alone?
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It's not that it can't be forgiven, but that it will not be forgiven...in this world or the next.
I was trying to get clarification of what another poster was meaning in his post. I wasn't pretending I didn't understand.
The next verse says it will not be forgiven in this world or the next. It's not that God can't forgive the sin, but that He has chosen not to.
Another clarification would be: Did Paul { 'chief sinner' } commit the Unpardonable sin when he
"had, at his feet, the laid clothes of those who stoned [ in blasphemy ] Stephen after he preached
to them, being Full Of The Holy Ghost" (Acts 7:58-59 AV)?
If so, how then was He Forgiven in Acts 9?
The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Spirit, or ascribing the works of Jesus to Satan and not to the Spirit. He certainly was approving of Stephen's death, but it's only speculation that Paul ever blasphemed the Spirit.
Who won't be forgiven? Please, quote the verses and translations you are relying on to determine who it is who will mot be forgiven..
Not quite. This parable is not about genuine Christians losing salvation but about the servants' master showing mercy and grace by being willing to forgive his servant of such a huge dept that he could never pay back, just as Jesus Christ is willing to show mercy and grace by being willing to forgive us our sin debt that we could never pay back. Now keep in mind this is a parable. The servant falls to his knees, begging the master for mercy. He promises to repay the unpayable debt, though it’s clear this is impossible.
The master’s response is stunning. He cancels the entire debt. This act of compassion reflects God’s immeasurable forgiveness, a grace we could never earn. Yet that is not how it works with our Master, Jesus Christ. He is not going to forgive our sin debt simply because we ask Him to be patient with us and we will pay it back, no matter how much we beg. (vs. 32) The debt is too enormous to pay back! Also, since the wicked servant did not have the means to repay his debt, his master commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. (vs. 25)
That is not how it works with the Master, Jesus Christ in regard to our sin debt either. Jesus doesn't order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the sin debt. So, even though the master in the parable was willing to forgive the servants' enormous debt, ultimately, he was not forgiven. The Lord Jesus Christ infallibly knows our hearts and ultimate forgiveness of sin is based on grace through faith and not on pleading for more time to pay back a debt that is too enormous to pay back with a wicked, unforgiving heart.
Well, those who ignore/reject GRFS until death will not be forgiven at the Judgment,
and Hebrews 10:26-29 connects apostasy (Heb. 6:4-6) with blasphemy (Matt. 12:31-32).
And what did I say?
It seems most unlikely that people who do blaspheme against the Holy Spirit are able to repent. I sometimes wonder how that plays out when people say certain gifts of the Spirit are demonic
If Jesus would have said born of baptism, your would declare "but He did not say it was water baptism".
Your theology is but semantics.
There is great freedom in Christ. Most people allow this for themselves, but few allow it for others, preferring their own preferences. It's difficult for some to practice Philippians 2:3. Your preference is noted.Then perhaps don't 'sound' like you don't understand.
If Jesus would have plainly said "baptism," then it would be baptism, but that is NOT what Jesus said. Notice how I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.
Yay1 We agree on something.It is nor
Matt. 12:31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either …
31 Because of this (διὰ τοῦτο) I am saying (λέγω) to you (ὑμῖν) every sin (πᾶσα ἁμαρτία) and slander (καὶ βλασφημία) shall be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται, future passive indicative) to men (τοῖς ἀνθρώποις) (but the slander of the Holy Spirit (ἡ δὲ τοῦ πνεύματος βλασφημία) will not be forgiven (οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται , future passive indicative).
32 And (καὶ ) whoever (ὃς ἐὰν) spoke/speaks (εἴπῃ . aorist active subjunctive) a word (λόγον ) against (κατὰ) the son (τοῦ υἱοῦ) of man (τοῦ ἀνθρώπου) it shall be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται, future passive indicative ) to him (αὐτῷ); but whoever (ὃς δ᾽ ἂν) said/says (εἴπῃ , aorist active subjunctive) against the Holy Spirit (κατὰ τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ ἁγίου) it shall not be forgiven (οὐκ ἀφεθήσεται , future passive indicative) to him (αὐτῷ), either in this age (οὔτε ἐν τούτῳ τῷ αἰῶνι) or in the coming one (οὔτε ἐν τῷ μέλλοντι).
What we have here in the Greek of verse 32 is a particular verbal construction -
"whosoever + aorist active subjunctive.... future passive indicative, followed by
"whosoever + aorist active subjunctive... negation + future passive indicative .
The structure is used to express a conditional based on a general rule that holds true for all points in time.
In English we use the simple present to express a general fact, e.g. -
At sea level pure water boils at exactly 100 degrees Celsius.
John comes here to eat on Wednesdays.
If we make these into conditional statements we could say -
If a pot of pure water rests over a flame at sea level, it will boil at exactly 100 degrees Celsius.
If John eats here, it will be Wednesday (because he only ever eats here on a Wednesday)
Now if we make the consequence negative, we might say -
If a pot of salty water rests over a flame at sea level, it will never boil at exactly 100 degrees Celsius.
If Mary eats here, it will not be Wednesday. (Because Mary does not come to study on Wednesdays)
And if we make the subject universal, we might say -
Whatsoever liquid rests over a flame at sea level and boils at exactly 100 degrees Celsius, it will never be salty, neither in this month, in the next.
Whosoever comes here to eat on Sunday, a meal will never be served to them, neither this month, nor next month.
These last sentences would use the Matt. 12:32 structure in Greek.
Now is it true that "Whatsoever liquid rests over a flame at sea level and boils at exactly 100 degrees Celsius, it will never be salty, neither in this month, in the next," is a claim that any water that has at some time been put over a flame at sea level and it boiled at exactly 100 degrees Celsius, that water can never become salty?
No, it is a claim that it can never be salty while it is fulfilling the condition of having a 100 degree Celsius boiling point at sea level. But we can add salt to it and it will become salty.
And is it true that "Whosoever comes here to eat on Sunday, a meal will never be served to them, neither this month, nor next month," is a claim that anyone who once came here to eat on Sunday, a meal will never be served to them, even if they come on a different day of the week?
No. It is a claim that they can never be served a meal while coming for a meal on Sunday, but they can come on Monday and receive a meal.
We need to understand Jesus' words in matt. 12:31-32 in the same way. Anyone who is fulfilling the conditions he states for being held guilty of slander against the Holy Spirit, will never be forgiven while continuing to fulfil those conditions. But if they stop meeting those conditions they can be forgiven. While we are slandering the Holy Spirit, we will never be forgiven. But if we stop slandering the Holy Spirit, we can be forgiven.
I will find some biblical examples where this structure is used elsewhere, and we do not read into it the absolute denial of future change, and post those in a separate post.
I like this
"To condemn the Christ as a gluttonous man and a wine-bibber, as breaking the Sabbath, or blaspheming when He said, "Thy sins be forgiven thee," was to speak a word against the Son of Man. These offences might be sins of ignorance, not implying more than narrowness and prejudice. But to see a man delivered from the power of Satan unto God, to watch the work of the Spirit of God, and then to ascribe that work to the power of evil, this was to be out of sympathy with goodness and mercy altogether. In such a character there was no opening for repentance, and therefore none for forgiveness."
If funny yet not well how many have we done this made fun of laughed at blasphemed? Its this it happens today " But to see a man delivered from the power of Satan unto God, to watch the work of the Spirit of God, and then to ascribe that work to the power of evil, this was to be out of sympathy with goodness and mercy altogether. In such a character there was no opening for repentance, and therefore none for forgiveness.". Be wonderful to believe most 99% of us have never done this huh but that is lie. We don't want to face it we make some excuse for why we believe so and so doing that work or that "so and so" is not of God there wrong off evil even right?
This is just one side of what some believe. Some believe the only sin that cannot be forgiven is rejecting Christ. If you have read some of my posts whenever I talk about the Holy Spirit.. I always try to say sweet Holy Spirit. Its like loving Christ I never did at first never knew Him but as that fellowship relationship grew oh His love just always there and then the Sweet sweet holy Spirit. Its just in me directed to Him only. Again some believe that is what Christ meant. There are a few more not so known ones. I like these verses. The words Fellowship of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit (holy Spirit) set to Philip and ooh do not grieve the Holy Spirit. He is with us... He is our comforter He is in us He leads us He guides us and never speaks of Him self only points to Christ to God and shows us what? Yeah!
“May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all"
"Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.”
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption "
Its why I watch what I say and think about any person of God. If I do its with those I know will pray uplift help so forth. lol I do have to say.. some of those He picks to work with and through.. He sees something I do not. So I do not try not to get in His way.
What I personal think?
"To condemn the Christ as a gluttonous man and a wine-bibber, as breaking the Sabbath, or blaspheming when He said, "Thy sins be forgiven thee," was to speak a word against the Son of Man. These offences might be sins of ignorance, not implying more than narrowness and prejudice. But to see a man delivered from the power of Satan unto God, to watch the work of the Spirit of God, and then to ascribe that work to the power of evil, this was to be out of sympathy with goodness and mercy altogether. In such a character there was no opening for repentance, and therefore none for forgiveness."
If funny yet not well how many have we done this made fun of laughed at blasphemed? Its this it happens today " But to see a man delivered from the power of Satan unto God, to watch the work of the Spirit of God, and then to ascribe that work to the power of evil, this was to be out of sympathy with goodness and mercy altogether. In such a character there was no opening for repentance, and therefore none for forgiveness.". Be wonderful to believe most 99% of us have never done this huh but that is lie. We don't want to face it we make some excuse for why we believe so and so doing that work or that "so and so" is not of God there wrong off evil even right?
This is just one side of what some believe. Some believe the only sin that cannot be forgiven is rejecting Christ. If you have read some of my posts whenever I talk about the Holy Spirit.. I always try to say sweet Holy Spirit. Its like loving Christ I never did at first never knew Him but as that fellowship relationship grew oh His love just always there and then the Sweet sweet holy Spirit. Its just in me directed to Him only. Again some believe that is what Christ meant. There are a few more not so known ones. I like these verses. The words Fellowship of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit (holy Spirit) set to Philip and ooh do not grieve the Holy Spirit. He is with us... He is our comforter He is in us He leads us He guides us and never speaks of Him self only points to Christ to God and shows us what? Yeah!
“May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all"
"Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.”
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption "
Its why I watch what I say and think about any person of God. If I do its with those I know will pray uplift help so forth. lol I do have to say.. some of those He picks to work with and through.. He sees something I do not. So I do not try not to get in His way.
What I personal think?
While I do believe going back to the original language can often be helpful, there are times when the explanation given boggles the imagination. While I give you props for creativity, the original translator was a language expert and the plain reading of the passage seems clear enough.
Often it's the case that some people are just too emotionally invested in their own perspective that they can't be bothered to think through someone else's different perspective, because they have no intention of discarding a point of view they have spent years promoting.