No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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I answered based on the other threads definition of world and you always agree with them. It's hard not to think something different when you agree with them. So that is why I say what I do. Now did Jesus die for all humans or is the world in John 3:16 the same world in your Verse?
You are just being more dishonest. You claimed I said things I have not. Putting some reaction on
something someone said does not mean I agree with every single thing they have said in that post,
and it is awfully presumptuous of you to assume that, and use that as an excuse to lie about me.


I quoted Scripture and you disagree. Take it up with God.
 
God has it all planned out. God changes the saved, and we willingly and thankfully believe and accept the Holy Spirit. He doesn't force, He changes the motivation for living from love of self first to love of God first and all others as we love ourselves.
It is almost humorous how you contradict yourself. He changes us but He doesn't? Yeah. Funny.

Except it makes you look like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
You are just being more dishonest. You claimed I said things I have not. Putting some reaction on
something someone said does not mean I agree with every single thing they have said in that post,
and it is awfully presumptuous of you to assume that, and use that as an excuse to lie about me.


I quoted Scripture and you disagree. Take it up with God.
Why are you not just answering the question but dancing around singing I did this and that?

You generally always agree with Cameron and I've talked about world and meaning at least 30 times. So either you were agreeing to his definition or something else he posted. It's not like I can know the specifics. But what I do know is you don't want to answer did Jesus die for the entire world meaning all people. That much is evident to everyone reading.
 
Why are you not just answering the question but dancing around singing I did this and that?

You generally always agree with Cameron and I've talked about world and meaning at least 30 times. So either you were agreeing to his definition or something else he posted. It's not like I can know the specifics. But what I do know is you don't want to answer did Jesus die for the entire world meaning all people. That much is evident to everyone reading.
Oh, yes, Cameron and I have very close views on a number of things, not all, and it is Rufus who talks more about the definition of world, whether it is inclusive and means all/everybody or not. I think context determines what words mean because sometimes a word can mean one thing and another time it means something else. Also I do not usually see what you say because I have had you on ignore for quite some time, just as I know you have been ignoring me, so what you say or have said in past convos is not something I am aware of in most cases, and whatever conversations you allude to here, well, you still lied here and now about me saying something I did not, why were you dancing around that? Does it mean nothing to you when people lie to you to your face? I know you have a motive. It seems to be you have some axe to grind based on me agreeing with Cameron? Wow. Cameron is one of the most gracious people here. But it still does not do you any credit to be so dishonest. One person interrogating another while refusing to answer questions put to them is not what I would call a conversation in good faith. I don't care for such exchanges. There are plenty of people here lying about a number of things, misrepresenting others, others beliefs, their beliefs, and their own selves even. I am not here to circle the drain with them while they are on their way to the sewer.

I agree that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Also, His shed righteous blood is sufficient
to pay the sin debt of the whole world, however it is efficacious only to those who believe.


John3-16s.png

John 3 verse 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
:)
 
Oh, yes, Cameron and I have very close views on a number of things, not all, and it is Rufus who talks more about the definition of world, whether it is inclusive and means all/everybody or not. I think context determines what words mean because sometimes a word can mean one thing and another time it means something else. Also I do not usually see what you say because I have had you on ignore for quite some time, just as I know you have been ignoring me, so what you say or have said in past convos is not something I am aware of in most cases, and whatever conversations you allude to here, well, you still lied here and now about me saying something I did not, why were you dancing around that? Does it mean nothing to you when people lie to you to your face? I know you have a motive. It seems to be you have some axe to grind based on me agreeing with Cameron? Wow. Cameron is one of the most gracious people here. But it still does not do you any credit to be so dishonest. One person interrogating another while refusing to answer questions put to them is not what I would call a conversation in good faith. I don't care for such exchanges. There are plenty of people here lying about a number of things, misrepresenting others, others beliefs, their beliefs, and their own selves even. I am not here to circle the drain with them while they are on their way to the sewer.

I agree that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Also, His shed righteous blood is sufficient
to pay the sin debt of the whole world, however it is efficacious only to those who believe.


John3-16s.png

John 3 verse 16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
:)
I actually like many of Cameron's views and agree with several things plus he's one of the first Reformed thinkers to believe in the modern day Gifts of the Holy Ghost. And I didn't lie because I take agreeing to something that someone else says to be something that you personally believe.

But I am very pleased with your definition of world and how you view the completed work Jesus fulfilled on the Cross. I sincerely didn't mean to offend you but was evidently misreading the meaning to agreeing with someone else's posts that either disagreed or differed than mine :coffee:
 
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.

No person can come to the truth without God intervening in their life.

When God calls a person according to their heart condition He will work in their life to get them to the truth, but when they get to the door of truth they have to make the choice to accept the truth because God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life.

Not everybody has the right heart condition to be called because they exalt themselves, and do not have much love for people, and do not want to believe in a higher power.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Even though we cannot come to the truth without God intervening in our life we still have free will because we must choose to believe in a higher power, and love people by not offending them, and want to do good, and want the truth, to be able to be called.

And we have to choose to walk through the door of truth.

Mar 4:4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
Mar 4:5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
Mar 4:6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
Mar 4:7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everyone walks through the door of truth because they do not allow the Spirit to lead them and love sin more than God.

They do not come to the truth because in the flesh dwells no good thing.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

By the Spirit we can abstain from sin.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

For people that say God chooses who will be saved in the beginning without their choice why are many called but few are chosen.

Why would God call people that are not chosen when He chose who will be saved in the beginning.

Would not they all be saved.

Because we have free will to accept or reject the truth and some people have a form of godliness but they reject the truth.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Another thing they do not understand is predestination which means God had the plan to give salvation to the world from the foundation of the world.

And this salvation is to whoever wants it.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved but we know all people will not be saved so we have free will to choose the truth.

For if God made the choice to save people we would all be saved.
 
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God wants all people to be saved but we know all people will not be saved so we have free will to choose the truth.
No He does not want all people to be saved all His elect, and no man does not have a free will to believe the truth John 6:44
 
The real issue is what Scripture says of the natural, unregenerated man = he is a slave to sin, is at enmity with God, a lover of darkness and defined as darkness itself, full of evil, opposed to the spiritual things of God, refusing to come into the light, does not seek for God, cannot come to God on his own, hostile to/at enmity with God and incapable of obeying and/or submitting to God, nothing good dwells in his flesh which serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. He is blinded by the god of this world and the gospel is foolishness to him, as he can neither receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God which are discerned only through the Spirit. He has an incurably wicked heart which needs replacing and people essentially claim this unregenerated man is able to believe with that God-hating heart. Those who promote free will essentially reject what is said of the natural man and instead ascribe to him qualities and characteristics and abilities that only the regenerated spiritually alive man is capable of. They claim a lot of things that do not align with Scripture, such as: everyone hears, the gospel is not hid, man is not blind to the truth, man is not such a bad guy and can as a bad tree produce the good fruit of faith (since none are good, no not one according to Scripture, but FWers mock, reject, contradict, and deny such Scriptural truths). There are a lot of Pelagian heretics here. We have also been told faith is not a gift from God even though Scripture says all good things come from God. Some also conflate being spiritually dead with being physically dead but then are dishonest about doing so even though they repeatedly tell those they disagree with on this issue to go preach in cemeteries. They have even told us that the gospel is not a spiritual matter, because 1 Cor 2:14 is a favorite verse of theirs to rewrite.
 
One calvist actually told me God and Satan were talking when God said Adam has become like us. Also that God had predestined Adam to fall. Now I dont know if that is part of calvinism or just some twisted stuff they thought ip on their own.
 
I actually like many of Cameron's views and agree with several things plus he's one of the first Reformed thinkers to believe in the modern day Gifts of the Holy Ghost. And I didn't lie because I take agreeing to something that someone else says to be something that you personally believe.

But I am very pleased with your definition of world and how you view the completed work Jesus fulfilled on the Cross. I sincerely didn't mean to offend you but was evidently misreading the meaning to agreeing with someone else's posts that either disagreed or differed than mine :coffee:
It is a lie to claim I said something I did not.
 
It is a lie to claim I said something I did not.
You've never commented on the meaning of world in all the times it's come up?

You give many confirming emojis to several who mention it.

I for some reason believe you have. But if you have not ever gave your views on world meaning in all of those discussions then I apologize.

I come from a Culture where doing nothing is doing something or saying nothing is saying something or emojis can make a statement on its own.
 
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Somebody gave this one a Hammer and Nail because what I just read they nailed it. So may all the polemics hurry an ravish what was just stated
 
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !



When I think about what Jesus says in John 6:44, it’s almost like we are fish and God is the fisherman. A fish doesn’t jump into a boat on its own someone has to cast the line. In the same way, no one can come to Christ unless the Father first draws them.


The “bait” is the gospel itself. Romans 10:17 says, “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” God casts His Word out into the world, and it is through that Word that people are brought to life.


But here’s the thing left to ourselves, we wouldn’t even see the bait as food. Spiritually, we are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1), blind to the truth (2 Corinthians 4:4), and even hostile toward God (Romans 8:7). That’s why Jesus also says in John 6:65, “No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”


This is where Psalm 110:3 comes in: “Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.” In other words, when God draws us, He not only casts the line, but He changes our will so that we want Him. Like a fish whose appetite is awakened, we suddenly see Christ as our life, and we “bite” willingly.


So yes, we do make a real decision to believe, but Scripture shows that even that willingness is a gift of God’s grace (Philippians 2:13). That way, when someone comes to faith, the credit doesn’t go to the fish for biting it goes to the Fisherman who drew it in.
 
When I think about what Jesus says in John 6:44, it’s almost like we are fish and God is the fisherman. A fish doesn’t jump into a boat on its own someone has to cast the line. In the same way, no one can come to Christ unless the Father first draws them.
Before drawing we're dead so drawing is the commencement of life within spiritual life
 
You've never commented on the meaning of world in all the times it's come up?

You give many confirming emojis to several who mention it.

I for some reason believe you have. But if you have not ever gave your views on world meaning in all of those discussions then I apologize.

I come from a Culture where doing nothing is doing something or saying nothing is saying something or emojis can make a statement on its own.
You also believe I ignore the natural/unregenerated man when I say more about him and also him in relation the the regenerated/spiritual man than probably anybody else on this whole site, so what you believe means diddly when it comes to what I believe, because people including you just make assumptions and pull stuff from from where the sun don't shine and then post it as if it were fact when it is not. According to you then you condone rape because I have not seen you say anything against it. See how that works? You are disgusting to condone rape as you do. Shame on you. Do you also agree with the God blasphemers that God is unfair and He raped Mary? Do you agree with the blasphemers that God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will if He acts unilaterally in any way in relation to salvation? I have not seen you say anything against that either. Shame on you. You're disgusting. Yes, I see how that works in your culture. How do you like it?
 
You also believe I ignore the natural/unregenerated man when I say more about him and also him in relation the the regenerated/spiritual man than probably anybody else on this whole site, so what you believe means diddly when it comes to what I believe, because people including you just make assumptions and pull stuff from from where the sun don't shine and then post it as if it were fact when it is not. According to you then you condone rape because I have not seen you say anything against it. See how that works? You are disgusting to condone rape as you do. Shame on you. Do you also agree with the God blasphemers that God is unfair and He raped Mary? Do you agree with the blasphemers that God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will if He acts unilaterally in any way in relation to salvation? I have not seen you say anything against that either. Shame on you. You're disgusting. Yes, I see how that works in your culture. How do you like it?
I see your viewpoint clearly and understand that I was wrong.
 
When I think about what Jesus says in John 6:44, it’s almost like we are fish and God is the fisherman. A fish doesn’t jump into a boat on its own someone has to cast the line. In the same way, no one can come to Christ unless the Father first draws them.


The “bait” is the gospel itself. Romans 10:17 says, “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” God casts His Word out into the world, and it is through that Word that people are brought to life.


But here’s the thing left to ourselves, we wouldn’t even see the bait as food. Spiritually, we are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1), blind to the truth (2 Corinthians 4:4), and even hostile toward God (Romans 8:7). That’s why Jesus also says in John 6:65, “No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”


This is where Psalm 110:3 comes in: “Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.” In other words, when God draws us, He not only casts the line, but He changes our will so that we want Him. Like a fish whose appetite is awakened, we suddenly see Christ as our life, and we “bite” willingly.


So yes, we do make a real decision to believe, but Scripture shows that even that willingness is a gift of God’s grace (Philippians 2:13). That way, when someone comes to faith, the credit doesn’t go to the fish for biting it goes to the Fisherman who drew it in.
So those burning in Hell are people that God rejected to cast a line to?
 
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