Does the Bible teach misogyny?

[Edward429451]

Scuse me?!

Huh? Oh come on ma'am are you trying to say that you never played innocent before when something was your fault? never? ever?

i should have known that there'd be an exception to the rule on a christian site so my apologies ma'am, I meant everyone but you.

 

[Jon777]

I notice you’re leaning entirely on Genesis 3:16, treating it as if it stands alone, while brushing aside the rest of God’s Word. That’s a dangerous path. Scripture must be read as a whole: Genesis 1 shows God made man and woman in His image, equal in worth; Genesis 2 shows the created order with Adam first; Paul repeatedly confirms this pattern not as a cultural suggestion, but as God’s design for life, leadership, and relationships (1 Cor. 11:3, Eph. 5:22–25, 1 Tim. 2:12–14).

Genesis 3:16 speaks of consequence, not divine endorsement of domination. Headship is about responsibility, humility, and reflecting Christ not asserting power. To seize one verse and ignore the rest is to twist the Word of God to suit your argument.

Let me speak plainly: if you approach Scripture this way—cherry-picking, elevating your own interpretation above the counsel of God you are walking far from the way Jesus taught. God’s Word is not a toolbox for preference; it is the lamp for life, the guide for heart and mind. Ignore that, and you court confusion and misguidance, no matter how sincere your intentions.

Jacob, good posts. I'll add some comments from the modern, feminist influenced NRSV Updated Edition.

My confidence is in the Apostle Paul’s Holy Spirit inspired interpretation of Gen. 3:16-17 –

The NRSV Updated Edition, 2021, is about as woman friendly as you can get.

Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (1Ti 2:11-14, NRSVue)

The church is in real trouble when people decide they know more about what the OT means than the Spirit inspired NT writers! Man speaks with the authority of sinful humanism; the NT has the authority of the Holy Spirit.

Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached? Anyone who claims to be a prophet or spiritual must acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.
(1Co 14:34-37, NRSVue)

 

[Dino246]

Jacob, good posts. I'll add some comments from the modern, feminist influenced NRSV Updated Edition.

My confidence is in the Apostle Paul’s Holy Spirit inspired interpretation of Gen. 3:16-17 –

The NRSV Updated Edition, 2021, is about as woman friendly as you can get.

Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (1Ti 2:11-14, NRSVue)

The church is in real trouble when people decide they know more about what the OT means than the Spirit inspired NT writers! Man speaks with the authority of sinful humanism; the NT has the authority of the Holy Spirit.

Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached? Anyone who claims to be a prophet or spiritual must acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.
(1Co 14:34-37, NRSVue)

Does the church you attend allow women to sing or pray? If so, why do you attend there, given your view?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Huh? Oh come on ma'am are you trying to say that you never played innocent before when something was your fault? never? ever?

i should have known that there'd be an exception to the rule on a christian site so my apologies ma'am, I meant everyone but you.

I took a look at your profile and I'm gonna assume this is an issue you have with women you date and excuse your rude comment and accusation that women don't take accountability for their actions. Perhaps the women in your world act that way. Don't take that out on others. You don't know me. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, don't bring that in here. Go get some help for it.

 

[Jon777]

Does the church you attend allow women to sing or pray? If so, why do you attend there, given your view?

The churches or congregations in my area are so apostate I do not attend any of them. We have our worship within the home.

In a worship assembly, when the Pastor says “*** will you lead us in prayer”, it better be a male if it is to be biblical. The prayer within the worship assembly would be leading and somewhat teaching, so that is restricted to men. In 1 Cor. 14:34 it talks about speaking, not singing, but the NT does seem to indicate congregational singing, not the special music where the congregation is “sung at” by persons wishing to perform. I hold to the practice of the early churches and Protestants practicing the “Regulative Principle of Worship”, using no instruments following the NT. Up until about 800 AD, singing in the churches was without musical instruments.

If there were one of the Primitive Baptist churches in my area, I would check them out for sure.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home.

And what if there is no husband at home? Different world than NT times. Many women are single and living on their own. The Bible was talking about order in the church.

I do think this is a good article on the subject.

https://www.gotquestions.org/women-silent-church.html

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

but the NT does seem to indicate congregational singing, not the special music where the congregation is “sung at” by persons wishing to perform.

Well I traveled in music ministry over 20 yrs. I didn't do that because I "wished to perform" that's for sure.

I hold to the practice of the early churches and Protestants practicing the “Regulative Principle of Worship”, using no instruments

The church we attend now used to be that way. We were honored to be the first group they had with instruments after the old pastor left. They've never looked back. The Bible talks about using instruments to praise Him and singing psalms.

 

[Jon777]

When dealing with any law, secular or bibilcal, there are always cases that do not fit a command or rule with exactness. Of course, New Covenant believers follow New Covenant commands, those of Jesus Christ, not those by Moses.

What idiocy it is, attempting to live life based on the ‘exception to the rule’! There are always to be special cases that do not seem to fit a biblical command exactly. The Holy Spirit honoring Elders in the assembly would make adjustments as necessary because there are always situations that do not fit neatly. Similar in principle, as an example, to how Moses made an adjustment by God’s command:

Then came the daughters of Zelophehad, the son of Hepher, the son of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of Manasseh the son of Joseph: and these are the names of his daughters; Mahlah, Noah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Tirzah. And they stood before Moses, and before Eleazar the priest, and before the princes and all the congregation, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying, Our father died in the wilderness, and he was not in the company of them that gathered themselves together against the LORD in the company of Korah; but died in his own sin, and had no sons. Why should the name of our father be done away from among his family, because he hath no son? Give unto us therefore a possession among the brethren of our father. And Moses brought their cause before the LORD. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, The daughters of Zelophehad speak right: thou shalt surely give them a possession of an inheritance among their father's brethren; and thou shalt cause the inheritance of their father to pass unto them. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter. And if he have no daughter, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his brethren. And if he have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his father's brethren. And if his father have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his kinsman that is next to him of his family, and he shall possess it: and it shall be unto the children of Israel a statute of judgment, as the LORD commanded Moses. (Num 27:1-11)

 

[Edward429451]

I took a look at your profile and I'm gonna assume this is an issue you have with women you date and excuse your rude comment and accusation that women don't take accountability for their actions. Perhaps the women in your world act that way. Don't take that out on others. You don't know me. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, don't bring that in here. Go get some help for it.

What are you talking about Sister? Forgive me if the girls that I dated and married were from the other side of the tracks from where you live. Maybe I should have gotten me a wife from your side of the tracks?! I wish, I'd still be married. I was married for 26 years. How long did your marriage last? That's long enough to show that I didnt treat her (or women) bad. I don't have anything against women. and I wasn't directing my comments to you directly and was speaking out of my personal experience. You don't even know me or have ever met me or anything, so why would take my comments based on my experiences and staple them to your forehead as if they apply to you?

I have 63 years on this planet so far, Sister. I pay attention to life and the world. Who are you who don't know me to be able to say I am not allowed to speak from my own experience?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

What are you talking about Sister? Forgive me if the girls that I dated and married were from the other side of the tracks from where you live. Maybe I should have gotten me a wife from your side of the tracks?!

Now mocking?! I don't care where you get/got a wife from. You don't come in here accusing and assuming all women act a certain way any more than men act a certain way. People are individuals.

I wish, I'd still be married. I was married for 26 years. How long did your marriage last?
That's long enough to show that I didnt treat her (or women) bad. I don't have anything against women. and I wasn't directing my comments to you directly and was speaking out of my personal experience.

Correct, that is what I said to you. You're speaking from your experience of women that you know.

You don't even know me or have ever met me or anything, so why would take my comments based on my experiences and staple them to your forehead as if they apply to you?

Here is your quote, "Maybe women's lack of accountability stems all the way back to this incident?" If you didn't mean "all women" perhaps you should have said "some" or "the women I know".

I have 63 years on this planet so far, Sister. I pay attention to life and the world. Who are you who don't know me to be able to say I am not allowed to speak from my own experience?

You didn't speak from your experience. I posted your quote above. Then you suggested I was a woman therefore I lacked accountability.

"Oh come on ma'am are you trying to say that you never played innocent before when something was your fault? never? ever?

i should have known that there'd be an exception to the rule on a christian site so my apologies ma'am, I meant everyone but you."

Had you spoken from your experience we would be having this conversation. You didn't. Thus the correction. But you've already made up your mind to be an enemy.

 

[Edward429451]

Here is your quote, "Maybe women's lack of accountability stems all the way back to this incident?" If you didn't mean "all women" perhaps you should have said "some" or "the women I know".

I'm sorry I didn't get the memo that I am not allowed to speak about my own experiences in life which has shaped the way I think, on your board? I wasn't even talking to you. I spoke of life experience and you accuse me of lying?
That's rich lady. You flatter yourself and I'm not about to start speaking bad about the women I have known or my ex wife just to prove a point to you, and you can't make me!

Who made you my Speech Nazi that dictates how I talk Sister? I am polite to you. I am not upset with you or with women. I have not been offensive so put on your big girl panties and get over it. Get some help. I don't want to argue with you. Who are you? Go nag your husband if it's lasted this long and you havent kicked him out yet.

 

[Edward429451]

Correct, that is what I said to you. You're speaking from your experience of women that you know.

And you say that I'm not allowed to? Why? I wasn't even talking to you. Leave me alone. I owe you nothing. This is why I didn't look for a wife in your neighborhood. Snooty girls trying to pick a fight. I wanted someone more down to earth than you sound.

don't get so mad so early in the day Sister. Or you wont have any left over for this afternoon!

 

[Edward429451]

Had you spoken from your experience we would be having this conversation. You didn't. Thus the correction. But you've already made up your mind to be an enemy.

So you have declared me an enemy now?

Wow that seems harsh. You've never met me before. Why did my statement Trigger you like it has? I think I know.

In your statement right here, you state as a fact that I have made up my mind to be an enemy, which I have never said! So you must be projecting onto me (Typical for all women!) You have essentially went up to a stranger on the street and are trying to pick a fight with him and blame it on him to make him look bad. so here we go huh?

Can one of the mods get this girl off me? She's trying to pick a fight and I dont want to play with this girl.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm sorry I didn't get the memo that I am not allowed to speak about my own experiences in life which has shaped the way I think, on your board?

You didn't speak about your own experiences. You said ""Maybe women's lack of accountability stems all the way back to this incident?" Let's turn it around. " Maybe men being toxic stems all the way back to this incident". See?!

I wasn't even talking to you. I spoke of life experience and you accuse me of lying?

I quoted your quote and gave you a chance to correct it. You didn't say "in my experience the women I know"...

That's rich lady. You flatter yourself and I'm not about to start speaking bad about the women I have known or my ex wife just to prove a point to you, and you can't make me!

Ok, well now you're being emotional and digging in for no reason at all. I mean, frankly, you're acting like some of the women I know.

Who made you my Speech Nazi that dictates how I talk Sister?

Here's a phrase to learn if you intend to debate on a forum, "I'm sorry, I meant to say..."

I am polite to you.

No, you were not, not in the least.

I am not upset with you or with women.

Then don't make sweeping comments like """Maybe women's lack of accountability stems all the way back to this incident?"
If you do, expect to be called on it.

I have not been offensive so put on your big girl panties and get over it. Get some help. (I am polite to you.)

Lol pick a side, are you polite or not, are you mad or not? Because you're coming off pretty ignorant now.

I don't want to argue with you.

And yet here we are.

Who are you?

????

Go nag your husband if it's lasted this long and you havent kicked him out yet.

So, lemme just get this right, this is you being polite, not offensive, not arguing. Over a small comment correcting you you go nuclear. Then you make it personal. I think I'm seeing the problem here.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

So you have declared me an enemy now?

Lol how do you twist the comment to make you the victim? I said "YOU made up YOUR mind" to be the enemy.

Wow that seems harsh. You've never met me before. Why did my statement Trigger you like it has?

So asking you to clarify your comment and not tar everyone with the same brush is "harsh". Wow, you're not gonna last long here.

I think I know.

Oh, I don't know you but you know me. Gotcha.

In your statement right here, you state as a fact that I have made up my mind to be an enemy, which I have never said!

Well you coulda fooled me! Your whole attitude is anger! I've never seen anyone so ready to fight in my life! All from a small correction in your post. How do react when someone really disagrees with you??

So you must be projecting onto me (Typical for all women!) You have essentially went up to a stranger on the street and are trying to pick a fight with him and blame it on him to make him look bad. so here we go huh?

Ok it's time for you to simmer down. You're hysterical over nothing. You made a comment that needed clarification. An adult would simply do that. You have gone full berserk. You've made yourself a victim out of nothing. If you are this sensitive, you better go find another place to talk. Debating isn't for you if you're going to throw a tantrum when someone has even the slightest disagreement with you.

Can one of the mods get this girl off me? She's trying to pick a fight and I dont want to play with this girl.

The mods expect you to act like an adult, not a three year old. Here's what you can do, don't answer! Or better yet for both of us, block me. Never have I seen such childish hysterics in all the years I have been here. Wow, a whole new level. Gladly let's make this the end of conversation between us.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

And you say that I'm not allowed to?"

Now, I know you can read. And I understand you're trying to be a victim. Post my comment where I said you're not allowed to do or say anything. I'll wait.

Why? I wasn't even talking to you. Leave me alone. I owe you nothing.

This is a debate site. This isn't your personal journal. This isn't your site. Anyone can make a comment on anyone's post. You want to be left alone then you picked the wrong place. Debate is what we do here. If you can't handle that, you need to go somewhere else.

This is why I didn't look for a wife in your neighborhood.

What is my neighborhood? You know where I live?

Snooty girls trying to pick a fight.

So asking you to clarify a comment is trying to pick a fight in your mind. Duly noted.

I wanted someone more down to earth than you sound.

Now, is this you being polite and not offensive, cause I'm having a deuce of a time figuring it out.

don't get so mad so early in the day Sister. Or you wont have any left over for this afternoon!

Well, I'm not the one having a meltdown.

 

[Edward429451]

You didn't speak about your own experiences. You said ""Maybe women's lack of accountability stems all the way back to this incident?" Let's turn it around. " Maybe men being toxic stems all the way back to this incident". See?!

Quit being obtuse, please. I can only speak from mine own experience, it's all I know. So I have to speak from my experience on the topic of relationships and women. So stop saying that and lying. I am certainly not talking about you, I don't know you. so How could I be talking about you?

Nevertheless, maybe men being toxic does stem back to the same incident. Why wouldn't it? So what. See what? Oh! I do see it now, lol. You are trying to insult me as a man! That's funny! It's true though.

The only man Eve had ever known was Adam and she knew that she was responsible for helping her husband and bearing his children. And the very first John that came along and said it's good babe try some...she wouldn't even be submissive enough to her Husband Adam to defer to him when John from up the street says something to her. That wasn't her her decision to make it was her Husband's. So women we like that from the beginning. And when God said what's up with that, woman? She started pointing fingers, like women do!

That is how all of the women in my life has shaped my thinking about women. So it is historical facts and my experience with women too. That said....

So why are you pretending that I am being offensive whenever what it it really is, is, you might be that type of woman that I spoke of? If you are, then of course it would trigger you and the offense is not what I said but the fact that made the truth bite to you? Truth hurts to hear sometimes because then we feel convicted whereas you were peaceful before but are now convicted so got angry at me for it...?

I have one problem with that. Just because some guy makes a girl feel bad about herself by what she (over)heard him saying (To someone else!) does not make it into an "Offense" upon you that I said that. What grounds are you standing on with your charges to me? You have never invited me over for Supper or even made me a sandwich! So Ma'am you have no authority unless you make me a Sandwich. That's the least you can do.

 

[Edward429451]

Lol how do you twist the comment to make you the victim? I said "YOU made up YOUR mind" to be the enemy.

What? I'm no victim. What are you talking about? I dont have any enemys that I know of. You can't say that I am your enemy and somehow attacked you and offended you when....we had no interaction. I was talking to someone else. What is so hard to understand about that?

So asking you to clarify your comment and not tar everyone with the same brush is "harsh". Wow, you're not gonna last long here.

sounds like you just declared war on me?

Ok it's time for you to simmer down. You're hysterical over nothing. You made a comment that needed clarification. An adult would simply do that. You have gone full berserk. You've made yourself a victim out of nothing. If you are this sensitive, you better go find another place to talk. Debating isn't for you if you're going to throw a tantrum when someone has even the slightest disagreement with you.

You're a weird one. You shouldn't have started insulting me. You are lying and do NOT speak any truth. Don't come back until after you have cooked me a meal or made me a Sandwich plate at least. Otherwise, I don't know you lady, stop talking to me. This is my last post to you. Rant rave whatever you want, but everybody knows it's lies and that, we have an emotionally out of control woman on our hands here. She wont even make me a Sandwich! Geez-Ow!

 

[Edward429451]

I quoted your quote and gave you a chance to correct it. You didn't say "in my experience the women I know"...

You see how dense some women are? You have no right to tell me to correct anything that I was speaking to someone else without AT Least making me a Sandwich plate. How many times do I gotta say it? Get lost, or tell me what kind of a Sandwich that you would make me and with what side dish and drink?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Quit being obtuse, please. I can only speak from mine own experience, it's all I know. So I have to speak from my experience on the topic of relationships and women. So stop saying that and lying. I am certainly not talking about you, I don't know you. so How could I be talking about you?

You know why. I posted your comment. It speaks for itself.

Nevertheless, maybe men being toxic does stem back to the same incident. Why wouldn't it? So what. See what? Oh! I do see it now, lol. You are trying to insult me as a man! That's funny! It's true though.

I was going to say something but I'm going to change it and perhaps stop the issue here. No, I wasn't insulting you. I was trying to show that you would find that comment offensive if I tarred all men as toxic.

The only man Eve had ever known was Adam and she knew that she was responsible for helping her husband and bearing his children. And the very first John that came along and said it's good babe try some...she wouldn't even be submissive enough to her Husband Adam to defer to him when John from up the street says something to her. That wasn't her her decision to make it was her Husband's. So women we like that from the beginning. And when God said what's up with that, woman? She started pointing fingers, like women do!

That is how all of the women in my life has shaped my thinking about women. So it is historical facts and my experience with women too. That said....

Once again, we're coming back to the issue of tarring everyone the same. Which is why I made my first comment.

So why are you pretending that I am being offensive

Well, I will let other posters read and decide for themselves, but I think you've been pretty personal and rather nasty. But maybe that's just who you are.

whenever what it it really is, is, you might be that type of woman that I spoke of?

Are you asking or accusing?

if you are, then of course it would trigger you and the offense is not what I said but the fact that made the truth bite to you? Truth hurts to hear sometimes because then we feel convicted whereas you were peaceful before but are now convicted so got angry at me for it...?

You really don't like being wrong or having to apologize do you?

I have one problem with that.

Only one? Surprising!

Just because some guy makes a girl feel bad about herself by what she (over)heard him saying (To someone else!) does not make it into an "Offense" upon you that I said that. What grounds are you standing on with your charges to me? You have never invited me over for Supper or even made me a sandwich! So Ma'am you have no authority unless you make me a Sandwich. That's the least you can do.

Well actually my husband makes a great sandwich. Not sure he'd agree to making one for you after reading what you've said to me here. But I think you will see other women have the same opinion I do once they read your post. I don't think I'm the only woman here that would pick you up on saying women don't take accountability.