I'm curious about a scripture

[Suze]

Suze, have you had any discussions with folks about Trinity?
Or have you had ALL the discussions in the world during your life and you’re too tired to discuss this one more time?

I have had a lot of discussions on this subject , how did u guess ? I was not brought up with any religion at all , so when I started to read the Bible I only had a couple of minor preconceptions and they were soon dispelled once I read things for myself . I started reading from Genesis through to Revelation and did it that way for maybe the first 20 times I read it . Now I have my own reading plan , I read the entire Bible once a year , except for each the four gospels which I read twice a year . Coming at the Bible pretty much cold and without much baggage , I never got the impression of the trinity and I still don't . To me , Jesus is the Son of God , created in Mary's womb by the power of God's Holy Spirit , he was a human being who received the Spirit of God without measure but still retained his human nature . After his death God resurrected him because Jesus did not earn the wages of sin , he did not sin and so the grave couldn't hold him . He is now immortal and sits at the right hand of God , interceding on our behalf as our Sinless High Priest in Heaven . One day , soon I hope , God will send him back to earth to rule over it in righteousness from Jerusalem . We, as Christians , can b with him , we will b changed and b as the angels , never dying and always obedient to our God , ruling the earth as kings and priests , just like the Levites and King David did . We will serve God forever in Truth . These r my beliefs in a nut shell . I'm not at all offended by the idea of the trinity but I just can't c it for myself , I'm sorry to say and I hope I don't offend with this but , I don't believe that any human could convince me of it , God could through His Word but , He has not yet done so . I don't feel the need to try to convert anyone else to my belief , God teaches us all everything we need to know in His good time . I didn't enjoy keeping my belief to myself to b honest , it felt decietfull , so I'm glad that Madman brought it up and I was able to let u all know . If it becomes obvious to me that I'm no longer welcome on here then I shall withdraw . I've very much enjoyed my time here and getting to know u all is a pleasure that I'm glad I've had . Off to bed now , it's almost 1am , good night to u all .

 

[Magenta]

John 1 v 1 + John 1 v 14a~ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

 

[PennEd]

I never got the impression of the trinity and I still don't .

Here is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, at the same place, at the same time, as SEPARATE entities:
Matthew 3
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and [b]He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

 

[Deuteronomy]

Spurgeon is a perfect example why Trinitarians won't come clean. But won't go there.

Hello Madman, there's really no reason to go there (explain what you mean about Spurgeon, that is), because the Christian belief in the Trinitarian nature of the Godhead isn't based on his or anyone else's teachings, rather, it's based on what the Bible teaches us (about the Trinity/the Deity of Christ) .. e.g. Genesis 1:26; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; John 1:1-3, 14; Colossians 1:17, 2:9.....

The issue with Trinity is more than the doctrine itself, it's about upholding the reputation of thousands of highly respected theologians. Over the last 1,600 years the number of books, articles, and sermons taught and preached on Trinity by highly respected and educated Theologians supporting Trinity is in the millions!

That argument has never been true. No one/no church continues to hold to the doctrine of the Trinity to make sure that the reputations of respected Christian theologians are not sullied. Rather, theologians, pastors, Bible college and seminary students, as well interested members of the laity continue to vet/evaluate the Doctrine of the Trinity and they continue to put their stamp of approval on it, year after year after year, because of what the Bible teaches them about it.

Diehard Trinitarians have been in damage control since the doctrine's development. They've "Closed the Crash Doors" by shunning and shaming people. They are hypocrites.

Damage control

The Doctrine of the Trinity is indeed a Biblical "mystery" (as it is something that cannot be fully grasped by us, at least not on this side of the grave anyway), but we hold to it, nevertheless, because the Bible tells us that it's true.

As theologian Dr. J. I. Packer once said concerning the doctrine,

The historic formulation of the Trinity (derived from the Latin word trinitas, meaning “threeness”) seeks to ~circumscribe and safeguard~ this mystery (~not~ explain it; that is beyond us), and it confronts us with perhaps the most difficult thought that the human mind has ever been asked to handle. It is not easy; ~but it is true~. ~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs (p. 40). Tyndale House.​

Trinitarians did everything they could to destroy the character and reputation after T.D. Jakes came OUT of the Trinitarian closet. They did everything they could to destroy the man. They didn't want a popular televangelist exposing their Trinitarian foolishness. So, he conceded because he knew that if he didn't the badmouthing would continue, and his reputation destroyed. The cash cow gone.

Now Trinitarian Pastor Jakes was a modalist, not a Unitarian. As such, he always believed in the full Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. He came to embrace Trinitarianism, not because he was bullied into it, but because he came to understand and embrace the truth of it.

As for the Christians who spoke against the modalism that he taught (at least the ones who wrote the articles that I read about it anyway), they weren't seeking to destroy him, his ministry or his reputation, just to correct his heretical teaching about modalism (for his and his congregation's sake ).

This seems like enough for now, so I'll reply to the rest of your post later (Dv).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - along with the Bible, we also have the teachings of the ECF (such as the one below, who tradition tells us was a student/disciple of the Apostle John).

Ignatius of Antioch​

“To the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).​

​

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).​

 

[Deuteronomy]

In my heart of hearts, I would find it quite disturbing if a loving God condemned ordinary people to an eternal fiery inferno for living a vapors worth of life. It seems that there's a 'second chance' in the judgments.

Hello again Madman, I believe that this life is mankind's "second chance".

I could be wrong, of course, but the Scriptures seem to point us to that fact (IOW, that the basis for His judgment of us will be established on this side of the grave).

For instance,

John 3 (NASB 95')​

18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ​

~Deuteronomy (David)

 

[DavidLamb]

I can see you are having trouble coping. Have no fear. There's a pill for everything these days - even for conditions as bad as yours.

No, I am not having trouble coping, but we seem to be misunderstanding one another so I'll leave the matter there.

 

[Magenta]

No, I am not having trouble coping, but we seem to be misunderstanding one another so I'll leave the matter there.

They were banned... where is @tourist when we need him? What is it he says? .

"They caught the last train to Bannsville." They were being very rude to you...

Music Notes

Music Notes

 

[timemeddler]

best not to overthink this one, death is what we deserve for sinning.

 

[Suze]

Here is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, at the same place, at the same time, as SEPARATE entities:
Matthew 3
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and [b]He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Yes ! Thank you for that . That is an excellent example of why I don't believe in the trinity . Jesus , God's Holy Spirit , and God Himself as separate entities and God calling Jesus , His Beloved Son . That seems very clear and simple to me . Thank you again .

 

[PennEd]

Yes ! Thank you for that . That is an excellent example of why I don't believe in the trinity . Jesus , God's Holy Spirit , and God Himself as separate entities and God calling Jesus , His Beloved Son . That seems very clear and simple to me . Thank you again .

Umm …. I think that exactly DOES confirm the Trinity. All 3 members of the Godhead at the same event.

Please don’t tell me you don’t believe Jesus is God.

Why would that passage confirm your belief in no Trinity?

 

[Suze]

Umm …. I think that exactly DOES confirm the Trinity. All 3 members of the Godhead at the same event.

Please don’t tell me you don’t believe Jesus is God.

Why would that passage confirm your belief in no Trinity?

Why would that passage confirm your belief in the trinity ? I cannot c it , I'm so sorry but I cannot c it , I c God , the Holy One of Israel , bestowing His Holy Spirit ( without measure ) onto His Son that He created in Mary's womb . Jesus himself calls God his God ; John Ch 20 V 17 . I'm not sure about getting into a discussion about this as I may b seen as trying to promote my belief and that might get me into trouble . Please don't think I'm being disrespectful or ignorant but I think it's best if we don't discuss it as I might get banned and I don't want to .

 

[Eli1]

@Suze I'm also too tired discussing certain things because I know how the discussion is going to go which makes me very very tired.

So in this case it seems that we need to do a deep analysis on the word “Trinity” itself because you describe it like most would describe it but then you say you don’t believe it?

I have done this discussion about language before and I gotta tell ya.
It makes me extremely tired.

Wish you all the best Suze and God bless you.

 

[Rosemaryx]

onto His Son that He created in Mary's womb

Hi Suze...
Jesus was not a created being , He was sent by God and conseived by The Holy Spirit into Marys womb...

 

[PennEd]

Why would that passage confirm your belief in the trinity ? I cannot c it , I'm so sorry but I cannot c it , I c God , the Holy One of Israel , bestowing His Holy Spirit ( without measure ) onto His Son that He created in Mary's womb . Jesus himself calls God his God ; John Ch 20 V 17 . I'm not sure about getting into a discussion about this as I may b seen as trying to promote my belief and that might get me into trouble . Please don't think I'm being disrespectful or ignorant but I think it's best if we don't discuss it as I might get banned and I don't want to .

Well, let’s just start with a simple question.

Do you believe Jesus IS God?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

6 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and [b]He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

So Jesus saw the Holy Ghost descending upon him and heard the voice of the eternal One saying this is his beloved Son, in whom he was well pleased.

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; John 7:39

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.John 17:1-2

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


"

 

[Suze]

Well, let’s just start with a simple question.

Do you believe Jesus IS God?[/QUOTE

Well, let’s just start with a simple question.

Do you believe Jesus IS God?[/QUO
So , u have asked me a very direct question , which I appreciate , I love someone who doesn't beat about the bush . I'm very happy to answer your question , however , I would want to answer it fully , giving my explanation and scripture to back up my beliefs . Is this ok with u ? I don't want to b accused of trying to convert anyone to my beliefs but , I'm very happy to explain them in full if u would b prepared to listen without getting annoyed at me .
Also , sadly I can't do it today , I have lots of family visiting and they r going to b staying overnight , as the hostess I just won't have anytime to b on here today .
I would love to get back to u tomorrow and give a full account of myself as long as I'm not going to provoke anyone and end up getting banned . What do u think ?

 

[PennEd]

I think giving whatever rationale for what you believe is fine, however I would respectfully ask that before you get into your thought processes, PLEASE start with a yes or no and then just move on from there.

You have stated that you like direct questions and answers. So do I. Thanks

BTW. Have a great day with your family!

So I’ll restate the question for clarity.

Do you believe Jesus Christ IS God in the Flesh?

 

[Karlon]

You are certainly free to not believe this heresy.

However, if you promote heresy that’s a different thing.

On a side note, I believe unless you’re a baby Christian, and lacking understanding and maturity, those denying the Trinity are NOT saved.

I believe that to be an essential element of THE Gospel unto Salvation.

yes, totally true. no one can pick & choose what to believe in as a Christian. ( Proverbs 30:6, James 2:10 ). you certainly are not heaven bound. a month ago, i was talking to a guy i played in a band with & he said that he grew up in the church but he doesn't believe that Jesus is the son of God. holy heavens!!! he grew up in the church? what church? wow!

 

[Daisy2]

when sin is full grown we die well we know insomnia is common in the wicked Proverbs 4:16 then what follows is depression and suicidal thoughts. Judas could've repented but he hung himself instead so wickedness leads a person to their death. likewise Saul could have repented too but instead he choose separation from God "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him 1 Samuel 16:14

 

[Branch]

Yes ! Thank you for that . That is an excellent example of why I don't believe in the trinity . Jesus , God's Holy Spirit , and God Himself as separate entities and God calling Jesus , His Beloved Son . That seems very clear and simple to me . Thank you again .

Dear Suze,
I am reaching out because I feel deeply troubled by something I’ve seen. Your current profile picture appears to be of a young girl wearing what looks like undergarments. Even if this photo is from your own childhood, it creates a strong impression of a child in a vulnerable state. When that image is combined with open discussions about sexual topics, particularly masturbation, it gives the appearance of connecting childhood imagery with adult sexual content.
I want to be very direct: this kind of presentation is harmful and disturbing. Any situation that even suggests child exploitation or child abuse is not acceptable, and I cannot remain silent. It deeply offends me, and I firmly reject any normalization of such imagery.
If your goal is to talk about sexual matters as an adult, then please use an appropriate adult representation of yourself. But presenting a young child’s photo alongside those conversations sends the wrong message and causes real harm.
I care about protecting children from abuse in all forms. I urge you to change your picture and to consider how your words and images can impact others, especially in mixed groups of men and women.
Respectfully,
Branch