Searching For Truth Seekers!

[madman]

The era of Roman Catholicism practicing NT Christianity was definitely over!

I know many Catholics and most of them act like Christians whereas the ones who badmouth the Catholics are often the heartless heathens who pass judgment and condemn Catholics.

 

[GWH]

I know many Catholics and most of them act like Christians whereas the ones who badmouth the Catholics are often the heartless heathens who pass judgment and condemn Catholics.

Catholics I know ARE Christians who badmouth the corruption in their denomination both past and present.

 

[madman]

Catholics I know ARE Christians who badmouth the corruption in their denomination both past and present.

There's corruption in every church. At least the Catholics admit their blunders and are busy correcting them.

 

[GWH]

There's corruption in every church. At least the Catholics admit their blunders and are busy correcting them.

Yes, and no believer is perfect, so everyone should be trying to correct their wrong beliefs and behaviors,
which is the goal of truthseekers. Martin Luther made a good start on improving Catholicism, but they kicked him out.

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #1
Catholics were the first Christian Church
The term catholic church came after the bible was already written. So, when was the first church started? Many people consider the first christian church to be at pentecost in the year 33AD. Others consider the first christian church to be the church in Jerusalem recorded in the book of Acts. This is considered the new testament church or the original church which consisted of devout Jews with James, the brother of Jesus, as the head. We know for sure that this is not the Roman Catholic Church because they hadn't even been invented or mentioned yet.

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #2
Catholics were the first Christians
If catholics were to read their bibles, they would know that the first christians were at Antioch. Acts 11: 22, 26 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem; and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch,...And when he had found him (Saul), he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass that for a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught many people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Most bible scholars would agree that this was written around 60 AD. The term catholic church was not used until 107AD, so they couldn't have been the first christians. The first christians were Jewish Christians, not Catholics.

 

[decipher]

Catholic Mistake #3
Catholics must have been in the Bible because of the word Saint.
Saint does not equal catholic. The Roman Catholic Church has hijacked the word saint and has turned its meaning into something entirely different than what it means in the bible. In the bible, all saved christians are considered saints.

 

[Ouch]

The era of Roman Catholicism practicing NT Christianity was definitely over!

Why do you think there are so many different denominations since we have one rule book and ONE GOD?

 

[Ouch]

There's corruption in every church. At least the Catholics admit their blunders and are busy correcting them.

I don't get into denominations, they all have man involved so there are issues.

We all need to follow JESUS get the foundation down and then talk what color the tress are.

The first message preached by Peter on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:38-41
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

After hearing the message, three thousand souls were added.

This should be the foundation in every church, just belonging or going to church doesn't make you a Christian obeying JESUS and being reborn does.

 

[Ouch]

Yes, and no believer is perfect, so everyone should be trying to correct their wrong beliefs and behaviors,
which is the goal of truthseekers. Martin Luther made a good start on improving Catholicism, but they kicked him out.

When you say, no believer is perfect do your really mean that?

When you say "everyone should be trying to correct their wrong beliefs and behaviors" do you really mean that?

Martin Luther, was just sharing the truth in GOD'S word to the catholics that is why they didn't like him, they liked POWER instead of the truth.

Truthseekers should be looking for the truth.

Here is a seed.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John JESUS walked with us.

Acts the building of the church, I call it the book of Action.

That is the foundation of churches where it lays the foundation and gives us instructions on the foundation.

All books after that was letters to churches that were started with ALL having the foundation of the book of Acts.

In the book of Acts it gives us specific instructions on how to be reborn.

That is why NO ONE WILL find any instructions on how to be reborn after the book of Acts.

That is why Paul don't mention being baptized in JESUS name or JESUS filling us with the Holy GHost, but he sure does cover both subjects and explains it in Romans and Corinthians both churches that he started.

Why would Paul do that if they were not necessary or important???

Truthseekers, SEEK and ye shall find.

 

[GWH]

Why do you think there are so many different denominations since we have one rule book and ONE GOD?

Because many fail to understand the difference between the essential Gospel kerygma/GRFS and secondary doctrines aka the didache.

 

[Ouch]

Because many fail to understand the difference between the essential Gospel kerygma/GRFS and secondary doctrines aka the didache.

Could it be they really do know and just trust GODS word the way it's written with out any OUTSIDE infulance?

Just have faith in what JESUS says in HIS rule book without distorting it?

Why can't man, just read and obey?

 

[GWH]

When you say, no believer is perfect do your really mean that?
When you say "everyone should be trying to correct their wrong beliefs and behaviors" do you really mean that?
Martin Luther, was just sharing the truth in GOD'S word to the catholics that is why they didn't like him, they liked POWER instead of the truth. Truthseekers should be looking for the truth.

Here is a seed. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John JESUS walked with us.
Acts the building of the church, I call it the book of Action.
That is the foundation of churches where it lays the foundation and gives us instructions on the foundation.
All books after that was letters to churches that were started with ALL having the foundation of the book of Acts.
In the book of Acts it gives us specific instructions on how to be reborn.
That is why NO ONE WILL find any instructions on how to be reborn after the book of Acts.
That is why Paul don't mention being baptized in JESUS name or JESUS filling us with the Holy GHost, but he sure does cover both subjects and explains it in Romans and Corinthians both churches that he started.
Why would Paul do that if they were not necessary or important???
Truthseekers, SEEK and ye shall find.

Some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”) or foundational for salvation. However, the book of Acts is not the only place foundational Christian doctrine may be found, and it mainly records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the gospels and epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues (SIT), the original occurrence of SIT at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for a while longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church. However, by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth apparently it had morphed into mere pagan-like babbling (cf. Matt. 6:9), which Paul neither quashed completely nor commanded, writing that the gift would cease without saying when (1Cor. 13:8-13) as love continued forever but also that he exercised it more than anyone (1Cor. 14:18), thereby causing confusion.

This confusion and apparent contradiction can be resolved by noting that if SIT were important it would be mentioned and even commanded in other epistles, so the absence of affirming SIT in other Pauline epistles speaks volumes. Thus, whenever SIT is claimed, it is right to test whether it is genuine or pagan (1Thes. 5:21). Certainly, if someone suddenly is enabled to speak an unlearned earthly language, that can be verified and considered miraculous, but interpretation of babbling is impossible to verify. Thus, disagreement can continue regarding the occurrence of SIT in private prayer, although there is no Scriptural warrant for viewing it as signifying Spirit filling rather than love (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21).

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith”, NOT via WB nor SIT.

 

[GWH]

Could it be they really do know and just trust GODS word the way it's written with out any OUTSIDE infulance?
Just have faith in what JESUS says in HIS rule book without distorting it?
Why can't man, just read and obey?

If they really know the difference, then their divisiveness indicates disobedience of GW rather than HS influence.
Yes, the NT teaches salvation is just by having faith manifested by love.
Can't speak for you, but I read and obey that teaching.

 

[Ouch]

If they really know the difference, then their divisiveness indicates disobedience of GW rather than HS influence.
Yes, the NT teaches salvation is just by having faith manifested by love.
Can't speak for you, but I read and obey that teaching.

Do you? tell me what I have to do to be reborn.

 

[Ouch]

Some people (“Actsists”) focus on events in Acts such as WB and glossolalia rather than on teachings in the epistles about faith/SB being what is essential (“Faithists”) or foundational for salvation. However, the book of Acts is not the only place foundational Christian doctrine may be found, and it mainly records what occurred during the early days of the church era as the revelation of GRFS transitioned from OT beliefs to the NT doctrine that is taught in the gospels and epistles, which never command WB or tongues as signs of SB or as essential for salvation.

The transition can be seen as occurring in Acts 16:31-34, where Paul told the jailer to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved, NOT to believe and be WB in order to be saved. However, the jailer and others in his family who believed in God were WB. Then in Acts 17:30-34 Paul told the Athenians to repent, which some did, but whether they were WB is not mentioned. Then in Acts 19:1-6 Paul encountered some disciples of John who had been WB but had not been taught about SB, so they received SB when Paul placed his hands on them. Then in Acts 26:16-18, when Paul recounted his calling to King Agrippa, he quoted Jesus as saying, “I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.” WB was not mentioned, which continued to be the case in Paul’s epistles.

The foundation cited in 1Corinthisans 3:11 is Christ, referring to faith in Christ’s atonement (Rom. 3:12-5:1). Instructions about baptisms are mentioned in Hebrews 6:2, which logically, semantically, and mathematically had to be that WB is a sign or rite portraying a soul has been SB (Col. 2:12), since there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5) into one body (Eph. 4:4, 1Cor. 12:13). This understanding was held by Christians generally until RC perverted it by practicing infant sprinkling, which was corrected by the Anabaptists during the Protestant Reformation.

By the last of Paul’s epistles, WB came to be understood as a good but non-essential work or rite, like physical circumcision, and the basis for believing folks are filled with the HS is reflecting God’s love for everyone (Matt. 22:37-40, 1John 4:7-21, John 13:35, Rom. 5:5, Gal. 5:6 & 22, etc.). Then, like now, the rite is performed as an apt way of portraying saving faith in the atonement of Christ, even though the work is not required, just as physical circumcision was not required for salvation either per Paul in Romans 3:21-5:1.

Regarding speaking in tongues (SIT), the original occurrence of SIT at Pentecost (in Acts 2:4-11) and for a while longer was earthly languages given as a sign that fulfilled Joel 2:28-32 (cf. Isa. 28:11-12 cited in 1Cor.14:21), which reversed Babel and evangelized 3,000 people, thereby ensuring the planting of the first Christian church. However, by the time of its occurrence in the church at Corinth apparently it had morphed into mere pagan-like babbling (cf. Matt. 6:9), which Paul neither quashed completely nor commanded, writing that the gift would cease without saying when (1Cor. 13:8-13) as love continued forever but also that he exercised it more than anyone (1Cor. 14:18), thereby causing confusion.

This confusion and apparent contradiction can be resolved by noting that if SIT were important it would be mentioned and even commanded in other epistles, so the absence of affirming SIT in other Pauline epistles speaks volumes. Thus, whenever SIT is claimed, it is right to test whether it is genuine or pagan (1Thes. 5:21). Certainly, if someone suddenly is enabled to speak an unlearned earthly language, that can be verified and considered miraculous, but interpretation of babbling is impossible to verify. Thus, disagreement can continue regarding the occurrence of SIT in private prayer, although there is no Scriptural warrant for viewing it as signifying Spirit filling rather than love (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21).

Jesus taught that his righteousness (Matt. 5:10&20) surpassed and superseded that of those who obeyed and taught the law (cf. Matt. 12:5-12, 19:3-9, Heb. 7:18-10:1). The law is represented by John the Baptist in Matt. 3:11a, “I baptize you with water [WB] for repentance” [forgiveness of sins indicated in the Torah, cf. Rom. 7:4-8:17], and Spirit baptism (SB) is indicated in Matt. 3:11b, “but after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

Paul warned Christians to beware of Judaizers, who revert to teaching justification by observing the law (Gal. 4:8-5:12). In Phil. 3:1-9 Paul said, “Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!… Watch out for those… mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision [cf. Rom. 2:29]… If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:… in regard to the law, a Pharisee… as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ… I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–that comes from God and is by faith”, NOT via WB nor SIT.

Since the only way to be reborn is the book of Acts that is why people focuse on it.

Without it, there is no salvation.

Need to write a small book to try to explain why it's not.

Truthseekers, WILL find it.

 

[GWH]

Do you? tell me what I have to do to be reborn.

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Jesus indicated GRFS in various ways, some stated in terms of faith (F) and some in terms of works (W):

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F)
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Forgive those who offend you (6:14, 18:35, W)
6. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
7. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
8. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
9. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
10. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
11. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
12. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
13. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
14. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
15. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
16. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
17. Understand (13:23, F)
18. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
19. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
20. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
21. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
22. Forgive others (18:35, W)
23. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
24. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
25. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
26. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
27. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
28. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
29. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
30. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
31. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
32. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
33. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark and Luke

34. Accept the kingdom (Mark 10:15, F)
35. Believe the Gospel (Mark 16:16, F)
36. Receive baptism (Mark 16:16, W)
37. Be hated (Luke 6:22-23, W)
38. Lend (Luke 6:35, W)
39. Judge not (Luke 6:37, W)
40. Invite the poor to your party (Luke 14:13-14, W)
41. Use wealth wisely (Luke 16:9, W)
42. Stand firm (Luke 21:19, F)

From John

43. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
44. Come to the light (3:21, F)
45. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
46. Drink living water (4:14, F)
47. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
48. Do right (5:29, W)
49. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
50. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
51. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
52. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
53. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
54. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
55. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
56. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
57. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
58. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
59. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

Do you?

 

[tourist]

I know many Catholics and most of them act like Christians whereas the ones who badmouth the Catholics are often the heartless heathens who pass judgment and condemn Catholics.

I fully concur with your estimate. I was raised as a Catholic too. From my experience and observation most Catholics are just as much Christian as other denominations. Glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

 

[tourist]

Catholics I know ARE Christians who badmouth the corruption in their denomination both past and present.

I wouldn't consider it to be badmouthing as long as what is stated is truthful.

 

[GWH]

I fully concur with your estimate. I was raised as a Catholic too. From my experience and observation most Catholics are just as much Christian as other denominations. Glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

In my experience, including ministering with a SBC/ABC Baptist church in Catholic Maryland
where many members were married to RCs, most American Catholics reject papalism and the
pre-Vatican II Inquisition and affirm NT morality--like Protestants.