Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
That says salvation is a gift, not faith.
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James 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Does that mean that demons are saved?

Repentance, faith, trust, belief, and desire to please God are all required but are fruits of salvation, not the cause. Man must become renewed to do these things. A dead man does not have what is necessary to obtain salvation nor is he able to do so, and a new man in Christ must do so. That is the power of the Spirits work!
Grace stands alone, adding any requirement to assist it, means that it is no longer grace. It is one thing to believe that there is a God and an entirely different thing to put your trust in the gospel as taught in His word.

The problem with FWT, is the belief that a dead man can somehow claw his way back to God!
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Self-control pertains to the natural world, ie, controlling the flesh. God doesn't/can't do that for us. It's self-control, not God-control
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John15-5c-Philippians2-13s.png

John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
 
Rufus said:
Give me chapter and verse. Why are you concealing what you allege Paul taught? And please tell me that you're not alluding to Rom 12:3! :rolleyes:
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Please tell me you don't have a lie to offer in return because that's all you typically respond with?
 
rogerg said:
Not to interject, but if salvation is a gift, then that which went into producing it must also be of the same gift. If any part of
it isn't part of the gift, then neither can salvation be a gift.
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Faith doesn't produce salvation. It is the means through which the salvation that Christ produced is received.
 
BillyBob said:
Rogerg is correct, what you posted is not true, you just have a difficult time when it comes to being corrected by another.
Please look at Eph 2:8-9, which tells us:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Even AI gets it - In the Bible, "grace" refers to God's unmerited, undeserved favor.

So when you look at Eph 2:8-9 it is actually saying:

For by undeserved/unmerited favor you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Look back at your post. The entire post reeks with the work of man in an attempt to say that grace alone is not enough, it also needs mans work!
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And the above Eph passage also harmonizes quite nicely with what Paul told Timothy:

2 Tim 1:8-9
8 So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time...
NIV

Of course, to a FWer the unqualified phrase "not because of anything we have done" conveniently qualifies the phrase to mean, "except to execute our God-given 'freewill'". :rolleyes:
 
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BillyBob said:
James 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Does that mean that demons are saved?

Repentance, faith, trust, belief, and desire to please God are all required but are fruits of salvation, not the cause. Man must become renewed to do these things. A dead man does not have what is necessary to obtain salvation nor is he able to do so, and a new man in Christ must do so. That is the power of the Spirits work!
Grace stands alone, adding any requirement to assist it, means that it is no longer grace. It is one thing to believe that there is a God and an entirely different thing to put your trust in the gospel as taught in His word.

The problem with FWT, is the belief that a dead man can somehow claw his way back to God!
Click to expand...

It says demons believe that God is one, not that they have faith in God's words. Demons can't be saved because God has provided no way for them to be saved to be able to put their trust in. James was rebuking the belief that merely believing there is only one God is what saves.
 
sawdust said:
You said faith comes with salvation and I agreed.



You can't see that I separate believing which is a work of man's will from faith which is a work of God.

If what we believe was saving faith, it would not need to be tested, it would be perfect. It's our believing that needs testing to see if we truly are in The Faith.



True, and yet I still had to correct your misunderstanding.
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Of course it would need to be tested because the hearts of men are utterly deceitful. See Jn 6 wherein a bunch of false disciples/believers followed Jesus to be fed with physical food.
 
Magenta said:
John15-5c-Philippians2-13s.png

John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
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Those who have the holy spirit are not apart from God, The spirit gives us the ability (power) to control ourselves
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It says demons believe that God is one, not that they have faith in God's words. Demons can't be saved because God has provided no way for them to be able to put their trust in. James was rebuking the belief that merely believing there is only one God is what saves.
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Oh...kinda like God provided no way for Gentiles to be saved since God never made any redemptive covenant with the Gentile world.
 
NightTwister said:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." -- Eph. 2:8-9 ESV
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The gift of God: salvation. By faith not works.

So simple. Yet the determinists trip over it.
Too bad so sad.
 
rogerg said:
No, not given that Christ is the Savior and we're not. That's what Savior means - that He does the saving, and we don't. We are
only recipients of salvation, we contribute nothing to it besides that.
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If you contribute nothing, then you will receive nothing. Such faith is vain.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Faith doesn't produce salvation. It is the means through which the salvation that Christ produced is received.
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This had been explained many times, but of course this idea that "saving faith" is part of the gift is essential to the system so you will never convince them otherwise.
 
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