Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[posthuman]

In their theology, they deserve to be saved for making the right volitional choice.

they don't see it that way.

they think everyone deserves a fair chance to win eternal life, and believe that if it is up to God rather than man, that means it isn't fair.

forgetting that the very basis of our faith is that everyone already has that chance and everyone fails - - hence the need for Mercy

 

[Magenta]

they don't see it that way.

they think everyone deserves a fair chance to win eternal life, and believe that if it is up to God rather than man, that means it isn't fair.

forgetting that the very basis of our faith is that everyone already has that chance and everyone fails - - hence the need for Mercy

I believe they do see it that way. But in their dishonesty they cannot admit such. That would make it a work and they bristle at that suggestion but find calling faith not a good thing no problem, no problem saying God is unfair, no problem claiming God raped Mary etc.

 

[Cameron143]

Di

It absolutely is.

History is filled with the bad consequences of a faulty belief system.

A belief system doesn't cause a person to be rude or unloving. History is filled with people who don't take responsibility for their own behavior.

 

[cv5]

In their theology, they deserve to be saved for making the right volitional choice.
And FWers are known for attacking the character of God. They do it frequently and with great ease.

Nope. Wrong. All wrong.

Our ***soteriology*** is grounded upon a divinely established legal transaction. An offer of Marriage freely given available to all. Covenant line items providing for the requirements of informed consent. Obligations and benefits. Payment of outstanding debts. Acquittal. Divine pardons. Justification. Stuff like that.

Vapid and vain pseudo-philosophical tirades and musings add nothing to the transaction. Worse, they impose fraudulent entanglements and barriers to entry.

Pharisaical Calvinists are notorious in this regard.

 

[cv5]

they don't see it that way.

they think everyone deserves a fair chance to win eternal life, and believe that if it is up to God rather than man, that means it isn't fair.

forgetting that the very basis of our faith is that everyone already has that chance and everyone fails - - hence the need for Mercy

What is so confusing about a good faith offer of marriage? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Magenta]

they don't see it that way.

they think everyone deserves a fair chance to win eternal life, and believe that if it is up to God rather than man, that means it isn't fair.

forgetting that the very basis of our faith is that everyone already has that chance and everyone fails - - hence the need for Mercy

Well, also as Pelagian heretics, they absolutely reject what the Bible says of man. He is not such a bad guy according to them, he certainly is not the person Scripture makes him out to be, he is not a bad tree and can therefore produce good fruit from his flesh even though nothing good is in his flesh and cannot please please God... flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death, but then they will claim that is not what they teach when it is exactly what they teach, that their flesh produces something good unto life, that being faith, and they deny it is a gift from God or even something good. They have many tricks trying to get around what Scripture explicitly articulates against their zero verses to support their whole free will shtick, based on their being smart enough to figure it all out and make the right choice with the use of their fantasy free will, some say without any help required from God at all, even though again, Scripture says the wisdom of the world does not know God, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth, man is unable to submit to or obey God... they simply contradict and deny it all. Many make no distinction between the natural unregenerated man and the spiritual man and many without fail ascribe to the former what is only true of the latter which is evidence of their lack of discernment in this matter.

 

[Magenta]

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Jordon]

And everything Jesus taught in the gospel is applicable to New Covenant believers... that means us.






After the Jews rejected Jesus....Bringing gentiles into the fold was a mystery the WAS certainly revealed.

It's a good time to remember John 3:16 which clearly indicates God brought salvation to the entire world.

He intended for the Jews to receive Jesus and the gentiles would learn of salvation thru the Jews.... but they rejected Jesus as a nation and so the gentiles became God's go to people.





Yes, and ALL unsaved people will be thrown in to hell because they rejected the Lord.
God says they are without excuse.




So, if someone does not get saved.... it's God's fault??? View attachment 279840

God does not force people to follow him. It's very clear from the scriptures.





There are videos on Youtube that teach people how to search the internet.

Maybe you should educate yourself on this and start searching







The Lord is the One Who said in the end times (that started when Jesus got here in the flesh) MANY would come in His Name and would deceive many (see Matt 24).... and as always the Lord is right!

Here's a nice question, it's a question for pricking the conscious.

Today I'm offering a lifelong gifted membership for Christian chat.com payed for in full, to any person who will agree to not project false idols and call children of God Calvinists..

As the word Calvinist is a projected false idol from the main source of people who worship false idols,

Would you like to accept this offer ?
It's conditional if you fail your lifelong membership it will be given to somebody else.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nope. Wrong. All wrong.

Our ***soteriology*** is grounded upon a divinely established legal transaction. An offer of Marriage freely given available to all. Covenant line items providing for the requirements of informed consent. Obligations and benefits. Payment of outstanding debts. Acquittal. Divine pardons. Justification. Stuff like that.

Vapid and vain pseudo-philosophical tirades and musings add nothing to the transaction. Worse, they impose fraudulent entanglements and barriers to entry.

Pharisaical Calvinists are notorious in this regard.

Wrong indeed, regeneration (new birth/united with Christ in real time) prior to justification (the legal transaction) also a real time event.

Yes they do turn reverse the plan of salvation.

The wedding feast comes before the bride has consented/accepted the offer of marriage
Just absurd

Barriers to entry are indeed shameful.
The god with "inscrutable reasons."

 

[NightTwister]

What is so confusing about a good faith offer of marriage? Absolutely nothing.

There's nothing confusing about it. It's just wrong.

 

[cv5]

Wrong indeed, regeneration (new birth/united with Christ in real time) prior to justification (the legal transaction) also a real time event.

Yes they do turn reverse the plan of salvation.

The wedding feast comes before the bride has consented/accepted the offer of marriage
Just absurd

Barriers to entry are indeed shameful.
The god with "inscrutable reasons."

@Cameron143 has made it abundantly clear that union with Christ occurs before birth, before existence, before any decision, agreement, consent. A kidnapping and shotgun wedding type deal.

 

[Cameron143]

@Cameron143 has made it abundantly clear that union with Christ occurs before birth, before existence, before any decision, agreement, consent. A kidnapping and shotgun wedding type deal.

If you can't understand how Jesus woos His bride, perhaps you haven't experienced it. No coercion except the coercion of love.

 

[studier]

they think everyone deserves a fair chance to win eternal life

With Rom1-2 being the first indication of this.

and believe that if it is up to God rather than man, that means it isn't fair.

Speaking for myself, I do believe it is up to God and that He is perfectly fair. He draws and provides and is the only one who determines who has actually, actively, responsively received.

forgetting that the very basis of our faith is that everyone already has that chance and everyone fails - - hence the need for Mercy

Romans 1 doesn’t say everyone fails—it says some suppress truth while others retain God in knowledge. John 1:11-12 says some receive Christ, others reject Him. Mercy isn’t deterministic - it’s God’s provision that provides for response.

 

[cv5]

With Rom1-2 being the first indication of this.



Speaking for myself, I do believe it is up to God and that He is perfectly fair. He draws and provides and is the only one who determines who has actually and actively received.



Romans 1 doesn’t say everyone fails—it says some suppress truth while others retain God in knowledge. John 1:11-12 says some receive Christ, others reject Him. Mercy isn’t deterministic - it’s God’s provision that provides for response.

There are guarantees though....

1Ki 8:23
And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

Psa 23:6
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psa 25:10
All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The idea crossed my mind instead of talking of choice as free will, how about enabling grace of will power to make a choice.

I do not believe I have ever indicated "choice" or "choose" ... I maintain that the Word of God is spoken to or read by someone ... which is God reaching out to mankind ... and that mankind either believes God's Word or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

So the will power and unsaved person receives through devine messages to make a choice is sufficient enough for them to make it.

God's Word is the divine message. God's Word is alive and God's Word imparts life. God's Word is quick (living) and powerful (Heb 4:12) ... the truth of God's Word is either believed or rejected ... what say you? Is God's Word alive? ... is God's Word powerful?
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yet you constantly look at yourselves as part of the solution. I don't.

I don't either ... notwithstanding your belief to the contrary.

I only look at/to/upon the Lord Jesus Christ for my salvation. It is all of Him.

yep ... and not just salvation ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the very life of the born again believer ... without Him nothing that exists could exist.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Your order is the same as I read it. The parsing of the verbs + the conjunction hēnika (when, at the time when) at the beginning of 2Cor3:16 look to say the turn done by the person and the veil removal [by the Lord/Spirit] are simultaneous, which is why I brought up the Greek word order and the structure of the verb meaning turn. Based upon this it looks like the human action of turning to the Lord is first in lexical order and - as you note - we're dealing with God so that fits as only He can make simultaneous fit.

It seems like a good verse to keep in mind in all these discussions (if we can call some of them discussions) re: the order of salvation.

not just salvation ... but in understanding the whole of Scripture. The Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. If we want to understand Scripture, search for Him ... find Him ... He is Treasure ... the Pearl of great price.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Both the Hebrew - 'min bit'en' - and the Greek -'ek kolia' literally mean, "out from the womb.

yep ... ek ...

check out Acts 3:2 and Acts 14:8.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

it is for my good that my salvation rests on Christ, not my own shoulders

therefore will i cast any crown i receive at His feet

I believe all will cast their crowns at His feet.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

we must always remember that Salvation is grace, not wages.

Romans 4 makes clear that faith is not works for which wages are remunerated.

Romans 4:3-5 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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