Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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cv5 said:
Look man I'm going to be frank:
I have never ever learned anything from you. Nothing. Zero. Ever.
For all intents and purposes I think that you are 100% wrong 100% of the time. Truly its an incredible track record of failure. Soteriology, eschatology you name it.

I have assessed that I have rarely if ever been enriched or enhanced or edified or most particularly learned anything from any dyed in the wool Calvinist/super-determinist here.

On the other hand, I have learned a tremendous amount from the "volitionalists" here, the wise men and women, the scholars and scribes to whom I likewise owe an unpayable debt of gratitude.
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You also learn a lot from Satan, especially when he whispers the following in your ear - Did God really say we are saved by grace alone?
 
NSH said:
The easy way to answer the question for a Christian is to look at it backwards. Since God has the power to judge us for our actions, we must have free will, as long as we accept the premise that God is good.

When we agree that God is good and has no bad in him whatsoever, then we would need to trust that God's judgements would be true and accurate.

Since scripture reveals that we are all judged according to what we did, then we must conclude that a Good God would not do this unfairly or against the nature he created. God's judgement being good is the key to the whole thing.

Because when God makes a judgement of a single choice and it is good, then the choice must have been made in a reality that could be judged.

Even if there are factors out of our control, he designed us as free agents like himself. This is part of the meaning of being "made in his image"

In the beginning God breathed into Adam and he became a living being. Having God's breath gives us the power to make free choices.

Living things that don't have breath, don't make free choices: things like trees and shrubs and mushrooms.

I think we could debate for a while weather animals have free choice, but when it comes to humans, made in the image of God, we are given that power to choose, and subsequently, God has the goodness to judge between what is good and what is evil.

The reason there is a doctrine of 'no free choice' is because it suits most of the worldly ideologies that are against God and his good power to judge.
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Guess that means that we are all without hope..... Gen 6:5
 
Cameron143 said:
Your understanding of scripture says so, but you use verses concerning eternal life to represent spiritual life. The 2 are not the same.
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I believe that regeneration proceeds.faith in many ways

One very important way is the constant renewing of the mind,

I wonder now if people would rule that out ?

But salvation being offered to everyone.

It depends on how you look at salvation

Salvation as in the day you receive a new heart or the salvation as in the rescue process from the day your born.

I would say the two are equally important and that salvation is offered to everyone
 
Cameron143 said:
Your understanding of scripture says so, but you use verses concerning eternal life to represent spiritual life. The 2 are not the same.
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He saved us, not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5

ZERO passages > faith precedes regeneration
Some passages > no order specified
Multiple passages > faith precedes regeneration

Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ✅


Romans 10:4
4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. ✅

NOT

4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who is regenerated. X


To make this false doctrine fit scripture what happens is obscure passages are loaded with presuppositions and then used to overrule clear scripture!

This doctrine of regeneration preceding faith is false, completely false.
 
HeIsHere said:
He saved us, not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5

ZERO passages > faith precedes regeneration
Some passages > no order specified
Multiple passages > faith precedes regeneration

Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ✅


Romans 10:4
4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. ✅

NOT

4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who is regenerated. X


To make this false doctrine fit scripture what happens is obscure passages are loaded with presuppositions and then used to overrule clear scripture!

This doctrine of regeneration preceding faith is false, completely false.
Click to expand...
completely ?

Does Daily renewing of the mind get included in completely
 
Regeneration simply is being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost before Repenting, which is BELIEF, then there's no reason to repent.

But every verse about salvation says we MUST REPENT.

So Regeneration\Being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST happens [(AFTER BELIEF\REPENTANCE)].

That is what the Bible claims 100%
 
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lrs68 said:
Regeneration simply is being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost before Repenting, which is BELIEF, then there's no reason to repent.

But every verse about salvation says we MUST REPENT.

So Regeneration\Being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST happens [(AFTER BELIEF\REPENTANCE)].

That is what the Bible claims 100%
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Here we are defending what is obvious in Scripture.
Sad.
 
lrs68 said:
Regeneration simply is being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost before Repenting, which is BELIEF, then there's no reason to repent.

But every verse about salvation says we MUST REPENT.

So Regeneration\Being FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST happens [(AFTER BELIEF\REPENTANCE)].

That is what the Bible claims 100%
Click to expand...
daily renewing of the mind is that a kind of regeneration ?
 
HeIsHere said:
He saved us, not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5

ZERO passages > faith precedes regeneration
Some passages > no order specified
Multiple passages > faith precedes regeneration

Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. ✅


Romans 10:4
4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. ✅

NOT

4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who is regenerated. X


To make this false doctrine fit scripture what happens is obscure passages are loaded with presuppositions and then used to overrule clear scripture!

This doctrine of regeneration preceding faith is false, completely false.
Click to expand...
The washing of regeneration is an effect of regeneration. It cannot occur until regeneration takes place. This verse doesn't negate regeneration prior to belief.
I Corinthians 12:3 says no one calls Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit. So those in Romans 10 must already be indwelt by the Spirit.
The last verse simply states Christ is a believer's righteousness. It says nothing about when it is applied.
 
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NSH said:
The easy way to answer the question for a Christian is to look at it backwards. Since God has the power to judge us for our actions, we must have free will, as long as we accept the premise that God is good.

When we agree that God is good and has no bad in him whatsoever, then we would need to trust that God's judgements would be true and accurate.

Since scripture reveals that we are all judged according to what we did, then we must conclude that a Good God would not do this unfairly or against the nature he created. God's judgement being good is the key to the whole thing.

Because when God makes a judgement of a single choice and it is good, then the choice must have been made in a reality that could be judged.

Even if there are factors out of our control, he designed us as free agents like himself. This is part of the meaning of being "made in his image"

In the beginning God breathed into Adam and he became a living being. Having God's breath gives us the power to make free choices.

Living things that don't have breath, don't make free choices: things like trees and shrubs and mushrooms.

I think we could debate for a while weather animals have free choice, but when it comes to humans, made in the image of God, we are given that power to choose, and subsequently, God has the goodness to judge between what is good and what is evil.

The reason there is a doctrine of 'no free choice' is because it suits most of the worldly ideologies that are against God and his good power to judge.
Click to expand...
It makes it so easy when you judge God by your own standard of right and wrong.
 
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