Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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This response didn’t answer the question asked of you. It redirected, reframed, and appealed to emotion. If you’re serious about meaningful discussion, start by engaging the argument rather than evading it.
I followed the direction of the responses. All except for your first response and part of Genez dealt with the question. Then he and you and another poster questioned my motivation. That's a matter of the heart. This means you brought the emotions in.
Further, each of your answers revealed some level of animosity. You weren't simply responding to the post, but the poster as well.
For all the wisdom that people here believe they possess, very few are the aroma of Christ. What good is knowledge that is never met with practice? The end of knowledge should be love; for God and others. Jesus began first to do, then to teach.
 
I'll pass on discussing your god volition, since as I have often said here that the whole debate/discussion around man's will is a huge satanic smokescreen to distract from the real issue: The human heart! God didn't promise in the NC to give his covenant people a new volition but a new heart, remember?

One other thing though before I forget: Faith is defined as believing God, which Abraham did! Tell me, Mr. Studier, on the scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best score, how did Adam in the Garden do with "believing God"?

Thought this would be the case. Offered anyway. No ad hom - no way for you to discuss.
 
I followed the direction of the responses. All except for your first response and part of Genez dealt with the question. Then he and you and another poster questioned my motivation. That's a matter of the heart. This means you brought the emotions in.
Further, each of your answers revealed some level of animosity. You weren't simply responding to the post, but the poster as well.
For all the wisdom that people here believe they possess, very few are the aroma of Christ. What good is knowledge that is never met with practice? The end of knowledge should be love; for God and others. Jesus began first to do, then to teach.

Come on, Cam. Go back and look again. I asked you the poster a question based in the fact that you think differently than @Genez re: what Scripture says. You responded to me in part asking why the animosity. You reframed my question, and you asserted there was animosity behind it. Do you pray that Genez will learn to know Scripture as you understand Scripture? Just keep your prayer private if you want, but don't reframe my question.
 
Come on, Cam. Go back and look again. I asked you the poster a question based in the fact that you think differently than @Genez re: what Scripture says. You responded to me in part asking why the animosity. You reframed my question, and you asserted there was animosity behind it. Do you pray that Genez will learn to know Scripture as you understand Scripture? Just keep your prayer private if you want, but don't reframe my question.
I did answer your question when I answered Gene. But come on studier, didn't your question insinuate my prayer for Gene was something less than genuine, just as he did? You aren't even honest about your own motivation. How then you see to judge another's?
What I posted was correct. You can challenge yourself by choosing to allow it to open yourself up inside your own assumptions and be edified, or remain as you are.
 
The reason I bring this up is because of things like the way some distinguish between believing and faith - a man can believe but God has to give him faith.

Just to clarify since maybe I am not reading this correctly.. is the initial act of faith upon hearing the
Good News towards and IN Christ given by God?
 
Exactly what did you do to get more? I must know! Please don't keep it from me....
Most Reformed followers don't believe in the Gifts any more so explaining it would be a waste of time to someone who wouldn't recognize them since they don't believe in them.
 
I did answer your question when I answered Gene. But come on studier, didn't your question insinuate my prayer for Gene was something less than genuine, just as he did? You aren't even honest about your own motivation. How then you see to judge another's?
What I posted was correct. You can challenge yourself by choosing to allow it to open yourself up inside your own assumptions and be edified, or remain as you are.

Cam, it's really simple, my question was real with no animosity. If, you'd have answered, "yes", or "of course", I'd have smiled and maybe responded in such fashion.

I'll speak for myself and let everyone else do the same. Your doctrinal beliefs are vastly different than @Genez. I've read you and I know Genez's teacher and studied under him for years and thousands of hours. There's very little Genez posts doctrinally that I don't recognize. If anything, my question to you was tongue-in-cheek rhetoric knowing your differences.

As for your prayer being genuine or not, of course it would likely be genuine. I think you genuinely desire that we all agree with your chosen system which you genuinely believe to be true. But you're again moving around to try to make your case. Your classifying my prayer as being animosity was wrong and it's a wrong that I see in these threads constantly and have to work on myself. My question wasn't emotional nor was it in animosity and it shouldn't be reframed as such.

If you want to see some animus from me this morning, read what I think of deterministic systematic theology. The more I deal with it comparing it to Scripture the more I'm against it. I meant what I said - I think it reframes major theological doctrines. There are a few areas of Scripture that I'd focus on if I agreed with determinism, but most of the ones we repeatedly deal with here are unquestionably not deterministic IMO.
 
You are not here to stifle ...... You are here to see if what you have accepted as truth can.

TULIP is not the Christian way of life.
The only thing it gets right is the depravity of man.
All the rest, is a product of that depravity getting its way.

Sorry.... anyone who accepts TULIP, does not know yet the true nature of God.

And just what exactly would that "true nature of God" be in your mind?
 
But why are we His, that's the question. Is it because He dictated it to be so or because when He revealed Himself, we wanted to be His and being the God He is, only wants the best for those who love Him?

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Ooh...better be careful with that kind of discriminating, biased language. What do you think he wants for the proud who don't love Him?
 
Just to clarify since maybe I am not reading this correctly.. is the initial act of faith upon hearing the
Good News towards and IN Christ given by God?

Thanks for asking to clarify. I see Scripture saying an unbeliever retains the functional volitional capacity to interact with God, His Gospel, His Spirit and choose to believe what God says. IOW I fully reject the deterministic corpse-man.

I don't think God gives a man faith so he can believe, and I don't think God gives a man faith when He believes.

I do think there is a confusing element to this in that God gives volitional man WHAT to believe, and if man chooses to believe it and not reject it, then in effect - logically - it could be said that God gives man faith. But if you take into account what I said just above, this reasoning does not negate those 2 statements.

With that said, there are a few things to work on. I, and some other students of the Word of whom I mentioned earlier, have come to question this whole translation of pistis as "faith" issue. And they and I know how deeply imbedded in theology and translation history it is.

As I mentioned earlier, John does not even use the word in his gospel. Of course this is just one consideration in the study, but IMO it's indicative that a man believing in God and believing God is most significant.

Understanding pistis on the other hand is another level of work. If it's used in conjunction with pisteuo (verb) translated as believe, maybe it should just be translated as belief or trust to track directly with believe. When we really get into pistis and want to understand how extensive a meaning it carries and how it ties back to pisteuo, for one thing I think we have to begin with Paul and how he bookends Romans with "obedience [of] pistis". That bookending and him saying it is his God commanded mission in the nations is not a minor thing. And this phrase not only helps define what he thinks pisits is, but it takes on a life of its own when we use it throughout Romans and consider it throughout Scripture and how pistis is used in relation to Jesus Christ - His pistis.

To say pistis and obedience [of] pistis is pregnant with meaning is an understatement to say the least. I can tell you there is sufficient ambiguity in the phrase itself that points to it needing to be studied in a very focused manner. At the surface level there are 30+/- ways to translate the phrase just to clarify the "of" which is being simplistically inserted in translating.

I don't know if I've answered your question specifically, but I have considered you and I to understand initial faith - or belief - similarly if not the same. If anything, maybe you'll see that I think we've only scratched the surface on the matter. I do think determinism only points us away from properly understanding pistis and pisteuo for that matter.
 
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