Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[NightTwister]

I put the "hissing slithery guy" (we all know who it is), the "raging clueless guy" (ditto), and "Bible tweet harpy" (same) on ignore.

Too much man, just too much. Quenching the Spirit of Truth, disrupting and misleading is their biz. And the truth is....they are good at it!

Some are just too far gone it would seem. Unteachable, no growth, no edification, committed and entrench in bogus religious dogma.

On the other hand, the sweet savor of Bible truth and pleasant aroma of the holy conduct of the legit saints here keeps me coming back.

Yes, the bickering is bitter and degrading. As for myself, I shall endeavor to restrain my baser instincts and innate desire to aahhhhmmmm "correct" error.

Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these." -- Mark 12:29-31 ESV

So much love here. Or is that ad hominem.

 

[Magenta]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[Magenta]

The gospel is foolishness to the natural man, since he can neither accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. It is impossible for his incurably wicked heart to grow the seed of God’s Word into the good fruit of faith while he is captive to the will of the devil. Along with the rest of the world who does not know God, he is blinded to the truth and under the power and influence of Satan, rendered incapable of submitting to or obeying God, with Whom he is inherently hostile toward in his mind, for he craves what is contrary to the Spirit. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to come into the light because he is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, and his deeds are evil.

 

[Genez]

Ask yourself: are there identifyable posters here who have NEVER spoken (or understood) Biblical Truth on this thread?

Like.... literally ever, never ever?
Because by my reckoning, the answer is....yes.

Thus the occasional "discomfiture" in my replies.

But you never know if/when the light will dawn. Where there is life there is hope.

We look at those Catholics who unwaveringly pray to Mary.
They are obviously deceived.
But they are totally sold on the idea.

For us to see them so plainly wrong?
It is not to make us feel good about ourselves, not being so stupid.
It is to be a warning to those who follow their own teachings to which they have devoted themselves and can not see it.

Without hesitation, I will say that the TULIP following Christians have fallen into a similar trap designed specifically to strongly appeal to their natural way of thinking. It appeals to them, because that is how they would want God to be.

Yet... Life goes on for the few who will find the Life Jesus came to give us to walk in.

The thief comes not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come that they might have life, ​

and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10.​

​

Notice... it says "life." Not that they might have salvation itself.
But to have a blessed life of fulfillment in Christ.

Now with that in mind?

Let's see what it is that only a few (out of many) will find.
(It is not salvation)

Matthew 7:13-15

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, ​

and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which ​

leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

Only a few will find the life Jesus spoke of.
Life more abundantly!
Many will choose other directions and lose out on sound doctrinal teachings.

Why?

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. ​

Know anyone like that?

I do.


Grace and peace.

 

[Magenta]

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Since the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. from 1 Corinthians 1 verses 18-21 The natural man does not choose to believe that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, for it is foolishness to him.

 

[Rufus]

We look at those Catholics who unwaveringly pray to Mary.
They are obviously deceived.
But they are totally sold on the idea.

For us to see them so plainly wrong?
It is not to make us feel good about ourselves, not being so stupid.
It is to be a warning to those who follow their own teachings to which they have devoted themselves and can not see it.

Without hesitation, I will say that the TULIP following Christians have fallen into a similar trap designed specifically to strongly appeal to their natural way of thinking. It appeals to them, because that is how they would want God to be.

Yet... Life goes on for the few who will find the Life Jesus came to give us to walk in.

The thief comes not but to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come that they might have life, ​

and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10.​

​

Notice... it says "life." Not that they might have salvation itself.
But to have a blessed life of fulfillment in Christ.

Now with that in mind?

Let's see what it is that only a few (out of many) will find.
(It is not salvation)

Matthew 7:13-15

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, ​

and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which ​

leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

Only a few will find the life Jesus spoke of.
Life more abundantly!
Many will choose other directions and lose out on sound doctrinal teachings.

Why?

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. ​

Know anyone like that?

I do.


Grace and peace.

For your info, the BROAD way to destruction is traveled upon by advocates of FWT among a host of other types. Most in the Church do not hold to Reformed Theology, which tells me they're traveling on the narrow road that leads to life.

 

[Rufus]

This is what I refer to:

Our volition was designed by God to reflect his image.
Not of of having absolute sovereignty, as God.
But, having a realm of sovereignty within what God has determined for us to make our choices.
Adam's fall caused man's soul to be trapped.
His soul has been entrapped within a fallen nature (flesh).
Flesh that, when left to its own devices, will produce a reflection of Satan's image.
A fallen nature that God uses to teach angels the consequences of certain desires
that fallen angels were condemned for their desire only.

Presently grace empowers souls to overcome the flesh, so that those (who are willing to suffer when need be)
will be made free to use their volition free of compulsion by the sin nature.

In a nutshell. There you have it.

That's your theory which you cannot support from scripture. God designed man's HEART to reflect His image! Man is much more than just volition!

 

[Rufus]

You can not hear my words.
They are not [coherent].
If you were willing to learn?
You would ask questions, not attack and reject outright.

FTFY! You need to understand why I cannot hear such words.

 

[studier]

Faith is not complicated. To have the faith of my father Abraham simply means to believe God as he did!

IMO biblical faith is not well understood. Some of the discussions about it on these threads bear this out. Having read many focused studies on it and having done my own on and off for many years, I have reason to have my opinion. In the last few days, I've read a couple more articles by writers who share my thinking on a few very important things re: faith.

If you'd like to discuss it apart from the ad hominem, I'm game to open it up. If it's business as usual, I'm out. I know the stories like the scorpion and the frog, and the illustrations of the leopard and its spots, and the Ethiopian and his skin, but I also know the power of volition, so I'm making you this offer.

In response to your statement about Abraham, do you think believing God as Abraham did carries with it more detail than simply believing something God said to him?

In regard to the word "faith" which is a translation of the word "pistis" are you aware that GJohn which some devout students of it see as the most evangelistic, never uses this word? The reason I bring this up is because of things like the way some distinguish between believing and faith - a man can believe but God has to give him faith. With all the differentiating, does such thinking make sense in light of the fact that John wrote his entire gospel without using the word "pistis"? It may to some. It doesn't to me.

If we get into Paul, I'm going to ask that we begin by focusing on one phrase and seeing where this takes us. IOW, if you don't care to focus together with me, then let's not start.

 

[Rufus]

This! https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf


Free of charge!

As it should be since it is devoid of any true spiritual value.

 

[Rufus]

IMO biblical faith is not well understood. Some of the discussions about it on these threads bear this out. Having read many focused studies on it and having done my own on and off for many years, I have reason to have my opinion. In the last few days, I've read a couple more articles by writers who share my thinking on a few very important things re: faith.

If you'd like to discuss it apart from the ad hominem, I'm game to open it up. If it's business as usual, I'm out. I know the stories like the scorpion and the frog, and the illustrations of the leopard and its spots, and the Ethiopian and his skin, but I also know the power of volition, so I'm making you this offer.

In response to your statement about Abraham, do you think believing God as Abraham did carries with it more detail than simply believing something God said to him?

In regard to the word "faith" which is a translation of the word "pistis" are you aware that GJohn which some devout students of it see as the most evangelistic, never uses this word? The reason I bring this up is because of things like the way some distinguish between believing and faith - a man can believe but God has to give him faith. With all the differentiating, does such thinking make sense in light of the fact that John wrote his entire gospel without using the word "pistis"? It may to some. It doesn't to me.

If we get into Paul, I'm going to ask that we begin by focusing on one phrase and seeing where this takes us. IOW, if you don't care to focus together with me, then let's not start.

I'll pass on discussing your god volition, since as I have often said here that the whole debate/discussion around man's will is a huge satanic smokescreen to distract from the real issue: The human heart! God didn't promise in the NC to give his covenant people a new volition but a new heart, remember?

One other thing though before I forget: Faith is defined as believing God, which Abraham did! Tell me, Mr. Studier, on the scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best score, how did Adam in the Garden do with "believing God"?

 

[Magenta]

Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).

 

[Magenta]

I'll pass on discussing your god volition, since as I have often said here that the whole debate/discussion around man's will is a huge satanic smokescreen to distract from the real issue: The human heart! God didn't promise in the NC to give his covenant people a new volition but a new heart, remember?

Eh, what do free willers need with a new heart? Their old deceitful devilishly evil slave-to-sin heart
chose to believe what it was opposed to as a God-hater. Or so they intimate with all their vain self-
exalting proclamations. They tell us they were born with everything they needed to do so! They say
man is able able able no matter how many ways and times and places Scriptures says the opposite.

 

[Rufus]

Wherever it is apparent God created man with his own will.

So, this world has at least three SOVEREIGNS in it: Satan, all of Satan's offspring and finally a little sovereignty should get credited to the Creator of this universe, don't you think? Quite an interesting little universe you live in.... Three Sovereigns in one universe. A triunity of sovereigns. Cute...

 

[studier]

So...I ask a question, 4 different people respond with varying degrees of animosity, and I'm the one who can't stand others?

This response didn’t answer the question asked of you. It redirected, reframed, and appealed to emotion. If you’re serious about meaningful discussion, start by engaging the argument rather than evading it.

 

[Rufus]

You can have it.
Enjoy your wood, hay and stubble.

But even those would be far better than being a clay pot that God made for ignoble/common purposes.

 

[cv5]

IMO biblical faith is not well understood. Some of the discussions about it on these threads bear this out. Having read many focused studies on it and having done my own on and off for many years, I have reason to have my opinion. In the last few days, I've read a couple more articles by writers who share my thinking on a few very important things re: faith.

If you'd like to discuss it apart from the ad hominem, I'm game to open it up. If it's business as usual, I'm out. I know the stories like the scorpion and the frog, and the illustrations of the leopard and its spots, and the Ethiopian and his skin, but I also know the power of volition, so I'm making you this offer.

In response to your statement about Abraham, do you think believing God as Abraham did carries with it more detail than simply believing something God said to him?

In regard to the word "faith" which is a translation of the word "pistis" are you aware that GJohn which some devout students of it see as the most evangelistic, never uses this word? The reason I bring this up is because of things like the way some distinguish between believing and faith - a man can believe but God has to give him faith. With all the differentiating, does such thinking make sense in light of the fact that John wrote his entire gospel without using the word "pistis"? It may to some. It doesn't to me.

If we get into Paul, I'm going to ask that we begin by focusing on one phrase and seeing where this takes us. IOW, if you don't care to focus together with me, then let's not start.

Wow...just checked. Indeed "pistis" is not there!

That is clueless worthy of an investigation.....

 

[cv5]

This response didn’t answer the question asked of you. It redirected, reframed, and appealed to emotion. If you’re serious about meaningful discussion, start by engaging the argument rather than evading it.

Errrrr......rather than slithering away from it?

 

[studier]

Nonsense! How does it degrade God to rescue helpless sinners? Did God degrade Himself when he "came down" to rescue the ancient Hebrews from Pharaoh? Aren't those who risked everything to rescue the powerless in this life usually considered heroes and worthy of acclaim and praise? Yet, you blaspheme the Almighty by claiming God degrades himself for helping the helpless poor, needy and oppressed. What manner of convoluted, twisted, perverted, profane thinking permeates your heart!?

Let’s be clear: critiquing determinism is not blaspheming God our Savior. It’s examining whether a theological system aligns with Scripture’s portrayal of God's created man and God's Gospel. Try to stick with the argument without the typical accusations and appeals to emotions.

 

[studier]

I agree and stand corrected, thanks.

This degraded world has just about reached it's expiration date. Won't be long now.....

Just an opinion. It always causes me hesitation to read of someone being good at doing [evil]. Thanks for the understanding and agreement.