Jesus was sent to call sinners to repentance. He himself said this. Acts 11: 17-18 Forasmuch, then, as God gave them the same gift as he did unt us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. The state of Repentance is given by God.
Am I correct with my understanding of this? Faith in Jesus alone = salvation
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Jesus was sent to call sinners to repentance. He himself said this. Acts 11: 17-18 Forasmuch, then, as God gave them the same gift as he did unt us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. The state of Repentance is given by God.
Not sure if your post is “agreeing” with me or DIS—agreeing with me. But I certainly do agree that the act of repenting is from God. It originated with God and it is COMMANDED by God; it is one of “His” works. But it is also something that man MUST DO. The Jews asked Peter (Acts 2:37). What MUST WE DO? Obviously there was something they MUST DO? Peter told them what ThEY MUST DO. He says THEY. must repent. ( and be baptized). So God may have created repentance but it is something that man is required to do. If you want to call it a work—I don’t mind; I would tend to agree. But it is not a work that man can boast about because it did not come from man, it came from God. So Ephesians 2:8-9 is not condemning repentance , or faith, or confession, or baptism. I know this because Eph. 2:7-9 is condemning “BOASTFUL” works. Works of our own that we can brag about. Works that we have thought up. Repentance is not that kind of work.
On the subject of “boastful” works, Jesus told this story in Luke 17: a SERVANT had worked hard all day plowing or tending sheep. When he comes in from the field does his master say, “ Come here, sit down and eat.”? No, instead the master would say, “you prepare MY supper, and gird yourself and SERVE me until I have eaten and drunk and then you will eat and drink.” Does the master THANK that servant because he did the things that were commanded of him? NO! He didn’t thank him because it was his “duty” to obey the master.
So, LIKEWISE, you, when you, have done ALL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE COMMANDED, say ‘ we are unprofitable servants’, BECAUSE we have only done what was our DUTY to do.
Did you get the point Jesus was making? We are the servants of God; God is our master. He has commanded us to believe Acts 16;31, repent Acts 17:30, confess Romans 10:10, and be baptized Acts 23:16. These are all commanded by God. Can we BOAST about doing these things?? No! We have only done what was our DUTY to do. As servants of the most High God, it is our DUTY to obey the Master.
Baptism is not a “boastful” work, anymore than faith is a “boastful” work. They are both commanded by the Master. And it is our duty to OBEY.
So, LIKEWISE, you, when you, have done ALL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE COMMANDED, say ‘ we are unprofitable servants’, BECAUSE we have only done what was our DUTY to do.
Did you get the point Jesus was making? We are the servants of God; God is our master. He has commanded us to believe Acts 16;31, repent Acts 17:30, confess Romans 10:10, and be baptized Acts 23:16. These are all commanded by God. Can we BOAST about doing these things?? No! We have only done what was our DUTY to do. As servants of the most High God, it is our DUTY to obey the Master.
Baptism is not a “boastful” work, anymore than faith is a “boastful” work. They are both commanded by the Master. And it is our duty to OBEY.
It is unwise to assume that a person with sincere faith also has also sincerely repented.
They are not synonymous as you are suggesting.
I has met a number of people who has been converted in prison into the Muslim faith and had a profound change of heart toward their past lives of sin and are now committed to leading a life of righteousness.
Faith in Jesus Christ is not implied or assumed because of repentance nor is repentance implied because of faith.
I understand your confusion and frustration. This assumption must be made to support your tightly held faith alone regeneration theology.
It is this same assumption that forces you to add "alone" into all of your proof text.
If you need to shoehorn a definitive into the verbiage of your verses in order to properly harmonize scripture with your theology then your theology is rather suspect.
Mailmandan, can you not simply present a verse that supports your Faith Alone Regeneration Theology without the need to add a definitive in order for the verse to harmonize with your theology?
Just one?
Repentance is a state of being. When God grants (gives) repentance, you are in that state of being. You can't work towards repentance. All works of repentance are because of it, not to get to it.
I suspect you just made this claim up.
I would love for you to give an example of someone "boasting of getting baptized".
I wait for your example.
Certain people seem determined to "add" their own personal definition of non-meritorious works to salvation through faith but it's just smoke and mirrors and is still salvation by faith + works no matter how much they try to sugar coat it.
Apparently, you don't understand what Biblical repentance is, and the Muslim faith is not the same as the Christian faith. Moral self reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. I have already presented multiple passages of scripture which make it clear that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications," hence faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ ALONE. (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-9, 26; Ephesians 2:8.9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
if we are doing the work of baptism to recieve something
then we are boasting of a work of merit.
If we are getting baptized because Jesus saved us. It is not a work of merit. it is a work of love
repentance is changing from a state of unbelief to a state of faith.
sadly. many believe but have not fully repented to a state of faith.
If you say you got baptized to get saved
You are boasting of baptism
to boast means to take credit. to point to self. something you did
as apposed to boasting in God for something he did.
Where does the Bible say that?? You are making a “made up” distinction where God has not made one.
where does the bible say it?
Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
show me the word baptize in these gospels as given by Jesus and Paul
John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
Your job is to PROVE that there are 2 kinds of baptism: 1) that if you are baptized to receive something that is “boastful” baptism and 2) that you are baptized because your are already saved.
I can find scriptures that show we are baptized to receive something. That’s easy. Acts 2;38, we are baptized to receive the forgiveness of sins AND to receive the Holy Soirit. That’s a good verse. But it DOES NOT TEACH. That this is wrong. Or is boastful baptism. in fact, Peter is telling them THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO TO BE SAVED. He is answering their question in verse 37. You are saying that’s “boasting of baptism??” That’s taking credit for it ourselves? Pointing to self? I’d like an answer to what kind of baptism is in Acts 2:38. is that a baptism of boasting? And where in the New Testament does it talk about a “baptism of boasting”? Just because Paul talks about boastful works, does not mean that he is talking about baptism. It’s not even mentioned in Eph. 2 where he is discussing boastful works. Your first burden of proof must be to show , by scripture, that God says that baptism is a boastful work. Which you cannot do. Neither is baptism mentioned in Roman’s 4. I say that Romans 4 is NOT talking about baptism .because 1) baptism is not named in this passage at all And 2) You cannot prove that baptism is the “work” that’s being discussed in this chapter. Since you are saying that’s is what Paul is talking about, the burden of PROOF lies upon you to SHOW US THE SCRIPTURE that says he is talking about baptism here and show us the scripture that says baptism is a BOASTFUL work.
Just quoting a lot of scripture about faith or works does not prove anything. You need a verse that shows a boastful work is baptism. You are assuming without proof.
Here is another SCRIPTURE that says we are baptized “to receive something.” Acts 22:16- Paul was told -byGod- to be baptized so he could receive the washing away of his sins! But God does not disapprove of that as you are saying. GOD. APPROVES!!! This is exactly what GOD says we will RECEIVE. If it is a work then it is one that God approves of. You must prove that it is a BOASTFUL work—which you cannot do.
I Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16 both prove that we are baptized tovRECEIVE SALVATION.
You say that is “boastful” baptism. How do you know? Where does it say so? Giving scripture about works that does not even mention baptism, is not proof that he is talking about baptism, especially when baptism is not even in that scripture. Nor is it proving that baptism is “boastful.” You ASSUME baptism is one of the “boastful” works in Eph2 but baptism is not being talked about in this passage—it is not even mentioned. So you have no way of proving it is a “boastful work PLUS, ALL of the scriptures on baptism I’ve cited show it as a COMMAND of God and with God’s approval. Nowhere in the scriptures does God ever call baptism a “boastful” work. AND, nowhere in the Scriptures does God condemn baptism because you received something from it.
Here is the second thing that’you are teaching that is wrong: You said that baptism comes AFTER SALVATION. That people are baptized because they are already saved. Where is the scripture that proves that? Can you prove it? I can prove that salvation does Not happen until AFTER a person is baptized. With SCRIPTURE.
Mark -6:16- Jesus places salvation AFTER baptism, not before it.
Acts 2:38- Forgiveness of sins comes AFTER baptism not before it.
Acts 22:16- his sins were washed away AFTER baptism, not before baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 salvation was a RESULT of baptism, not a pre-requisite of baptism.
These are PLAIN, easy to understand scriptures.
Nowhere, you give me ONE scripture that plainly says, forgiveness of sins, sins are washed away and salvation comes BEFORE a person is baptized.
Make sure the scriptures you use are talking about baptism—which is your topic.
Is this boasting something that you have seen or just something that you are surmising about the motives of other people?
I think I have done that quote well
If your bapptized because you think it saved you. you boast of your baptism.
If you did it because you were saved again, it is not boasting.
Um no. This interpretation of acts is wrong. Try going to the greek. Peter did not say what you think
It proves if a gospel was given and water baptism is not required. and later it APPEARS it is required.
You should interpret them both so they agree.. and KNOW that it is not required.
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Hey, you want to boast of being baptized. feel free.
Count me out, I will boast in christ. who baptized me himself into Christ,. His death, and his body (rom 6, 1 cor 12 and gal 5)