Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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cv5 said:
The determinists insinuate that Christ finds the faith of men toward Him offensive?

No. Zero scriptural evidence exist in support of this.

The faith men put in Him is COMMENDED in all instances and circumstances. Without exception.

To say otherwise is.....bizarre. If I were to speculate as to why the determinists are consumed by this kind of error, I would venture to guess that it is some kind of bogus work of the flesh humiliation ritual fetishism IMO.
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Of course, how else can the determinists elevate and defend their "chosen-ness" it requires removing, explaining away, the very action

which God clearly desires and commends by using horrible hermeneutics and eisegesis.

This means the fallen man retains this ability by God's decree, which is the true sovereignty of God.
 
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HeIsHere said:
it you flip it around, on this thread we have people telling us they have been elected and defending their election using scripture,

and

they cannot offer a means by which any of us can be elected as well.

They promote and defend an exclusionary "plan" to people (us) who may or may not be already excluded by their god.

That is quite disturbing really, of course determinism (personal, individual, unique selection) hardens people so we should not be surprised
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Because there is no "way" to tell you about. It was a choice made solely by God according to His good pleasure. If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it would be by grace, it would be by works. But it is all by God, nothing by man.

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
 
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HeIsHere said:
Of course, how else can the determinists elevate and defend their "chosen-ness" it requires removing, explaining away, the very action

which God clearly desires and commends by using horrible hermeneutics and eisegesis.

This means the fallen man retains this ability by God's decree, which is the true sovereignty of God.
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Right. Two free and sovereign wills and two truly alive spirits are required in order to consummate the divine transaction.
 
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@HeIsHere
rogerg said:
Because there is no "way" to tell you about. It was a choice made solely by God according to His good pleasure. If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it would be by grace, it would be by works. But it is all by God, nothing by man.

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Click to expand...

****correction - I mis-posted. I posted "If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it would be by grace, it would be by works."
I should have posted "If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it wouldn't be by grace, it would be by works.
 
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rogerg said:
Because there is no "way" to tell you about. It was a choice made solely by God according to His good pleasure. If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it would be by grace, it would be by works. But it is all by God, nothing by man.

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Click to expand...

I am impressed how you revel in this divine selection.

Makes me think if this...


Someone telling me/I can expect a horrible outcome, stipulated by written divine decree and there is nothing I can do about it

(even though there is) but the messenger is exempt, because the same divine decree exempted the people who gives this message for

some unknown reason.
 
Kroogz said:
You guys go to the extreme to try to convince us you don't have personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You had better hope you are right.


And I am telling you........Repent and put your PERSONAL trust in Christ.
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What is there to repent of? We have personal faith which was given to us as a gift? Is receiving a gift now a sin?
 
Cameron143 said:
I'm saying when I walk in the flesh, it is impossible to keep any commandment. When the love of God is shed abroad in my heart, I can do no other.
But my original point was that your statement that God doesn't give commandments that we can't keep is false, and that by your own admission.
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So you are saying God is deceitful?

Every time God said we can do something we read someone doing it. Are you saying possibly there are some exceptional people and the others aren't so?
 
HeIsHere said:
I am impressed how you revel in this divine selection.

Makes me think if this...


Someone telling me/I can expect a horrible outcome, stipulated by written divine decree and there is nothing I can do about it

(even though there is) but the messenger is exempt, because the same divine decree exempted the people who send this message for

some unknown reason.
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I was trying to answer your question, and for that you criticize me. But, yes, I do like that it is solely by God's grace to include His choice of us or no one could ever become saved (including me - especially me) because none of us can remit our sins even should we try to mask it by claiming they are by our choosing of Christ, so I like it a lot.
How do you understand that verse?
 
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rogerg said:
Because there is no "way" to tell you about. It was a choice made solely by God according to His good pleasure. If there was a "way" to be placed among the elect, then it would be by grace, it would be by works. But it is all by God, nothing by man.

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Click to expand...
The supposed Calvinist component of that passage has been surgically excised like you would a festering boil. And good riddance.

As you well know, it is the ADOPTION that is the THING that has been "predestined" aka planned in the past only to be realized in the future.
 
NightTwister said:
We're supposed to love God the way He loves us.
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The Bible doesn't and neither does God [[((EVER SAID))]] we must love the same way that God can.

He said to love them as He loved them. Because He loves them so are we but there's nothing about doing to the same amount that God is capable of doing.
 
lrs68 said:
So you are saying God is deceitful?

Every time God said we can do something we read someone doing it. Are you saying possibly there are some exceptional people and the others aren't so?
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You are simply being ridiculous now.

Grace and peace.
 
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rogerg said:
I was trying to answer your question, and for that you criticize me. But, yes, I do like that it is solely by God's grace to include His choice of us or no one could ever become saved (including me - especially me) because none of us can remit our sins even should we try to mask it by claiming they are by our choosing of Christ, so I like it a lot.
How do you understand that verse?
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Well it is also offensive to be told that a person cannot have salvation because they are not on the list.

See this post by @cv5 Link for the correct understanding
 
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cv5 said:
The supposed Calvinist component of that passage has been surgically excised like you would a festering boil. And good riddance.

As you well know, it is the ADOPTION that is the THING that has been "predestined" aka planned in the past only to be realized in the future.
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No, I don't know that, and no it isn't. Did you notice the "us" in the verse. That is a reference back to 1:1 and 1:2.
And you really need to stop trying to subvert the word of God

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
 
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rogerg said:
No, I don't know that, and no it isn't. Did you notice the "us" in the verse. That is a reference back to 1:1 and 1:2.
And you really need to stop trying to subvert the word of God

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Click to expand...
You are dead wrong as usual. Sorry fake sorry.
 
HeIsHere said:
Well it is also offensive to be told that a person cannot have salvation because they are not on the list.

See this post by @cv5 Link for the correct understanding
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Yeah, I read it, and it is totally incorrect as usual for cv5. The verse is completely clear as written in scripture. See my 13;814 post.
 
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