Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

But all flesh needs the work of the jaw...

Are you saying that the natural man is not subject to the law, but is subject to the jaw?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Are you saying that the healing of the blind is limited to the fulfillment of prophecy?

When John Baptist was in prison, he sent a couple of his disciples to Jesus to ask if He was Messiah ...

Matthew 11:

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come [Messiah], or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

the blind receiving sight was a sign that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah ... John would have known the Scriptures concerning this truth ... John was a levite trained by his father, Zacharias, a priest, and his mother, Elizabeth. According to Luke, Zacharias and Elizabeth were both righteous before God.
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[reneweddaybyday]

So why did he later admit to not being able to keep a commandment? He wasn't referring to the will but his ability.

I think all born again ones would answer the question you asked the same as lrs68 answered ... I think you would probably answer the same way. None of us is perfect so we fail at times ...

look at all these verses wherein God instructs us to love one another:

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.


have your eyes been opened by the Lord Jesus Christ to this truth that disciples of Christ are to love one another?
.

 

[Cameron143]

When John Baptist was in prison, he sent a couple of his disciples to Jesus to ask if He was Messiah ...

Matthew 11:

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come [Messiah], or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

the blind receiving sight was a sign that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah ... John would have known the Scriptures concerning this truth ... John was a levite trained by his father, Zacharias, a priest, and his mother, Elizabeth. According to Luke, Zacharias and Elizabeth were both righteous before God.
.

I don't disagree that the fulfilling of prophecy and the authentication of Jesus as Messiah are included in the reasons for miracles. I simply don't believe that this is the extent of God's purpose in his healing those who are blind. Take for example John 9:3. What is the reason for the man being blind and healed?

 

[Cameron143]

When John Baptist was in prison, he sent a couple of his disciples to Jesus to ask if He was Messiah ...

Matthew 11:

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come [Messiah], or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

the blind receiving sight was a sign that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah ... John would have known the Scriptures concerning this truth ... John was a levite trained by his father, Zacharias, a priest, and his mother, Elizabeth. According to Luke, Zacharias and Elizabeth were both righteous before God.
.

Being righteous before God simply meant they were devout keepers of the law. They were blameless according to the law. But this didn't mean they were justified, as by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified...Galatians 2:16. They still needed to be born again, and they still needed the imputed righteousness of Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

I think all born again ones would answer the question you asked the same as lrs68 answered ... I think you would probably answer the same way. None of us is perfect so we fail at times ...

look at all these verses wherein God instructs us to love one another:

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.


have your eyes been opened by the Lord Jesus Christ to this truth that disciples of Christ are to love one another?
.

You missed the point, and I wouldn't answer as you have suggested. So unless you don't believe I have been born again, your premise is false.
And the point was that @lrs68 made a statement that God would not give a commandment that we couldn't keep, and then admitted that he couldn't keep the commandment to love as Christ loves. It's not that we fail from time to time. His admission wasn't that he fails sometimes, but that he didn't possess the ability to keep the commandment. You can dress it up however you like, but you can't change what he actually said.
BTW...what he admitted was indeed the truth. None of us can keep that commandment or any other apart from Christ...apart from me, you can do nothing...John 15:5.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That passage says nothing about the source of faith.

The passage also does not state that God gave Abraham faith and then Abraham believed.

The passage states that God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed what God told him.

And Romans 4 reiterates the Gen 15 passage and makes clear that faith is not works.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't disagree that the fulfilling of prophecy and the authentication of Jesus as Messiah are included in the reasons for miracles. I simply don't believe that this is the extent of God's purpose in his healing those who are blind. Take for example John 9:3. What is the reason for the man being blind and healed?

Jesus healing the blind was a sign that He was Messiah ... just as the verses from Matt 11 reveal:

Matthew 11:

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come [Messiah], or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

the blind receiving sight was a sign that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You missed the point, and I wouldn't answer as you have suggested. So unless you don't believe I have been born again, your premise is false.

I believe you are born again and I believe you do not love as Christ commanded 24/7/365 ... we all fall short. But that does not mean we cannot love the way the Lord Jesus Christ commanded as love is fruit of the Spirit. The love of Christ is produced in us ... it's His fruit ... we are branches ... we merely hold out the fruit for the world to see.

BTW...what he admitted was indeed the truth. None of us can keep that commandment or any other apart from Christ...apart from me, you can do nothing...John 15:5.

have you read the verses from Ephesians?

Ephesians 3:

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Being righteous before God simply meant they were devout keepers of the law. They were blameless according to the law. But this didn't mean they were justified, as by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified...Galatians 2:16. They still needed to be born again, and they still needed the imputed righteousness of Christ.

When the Lord Jesus Christ healed the blind man in John 9, the blind man was physically healed and when he was called on the carpet by the pharisees, he told them he believed Jesus was a prophet (John 9:17) ... a worshipper of God (John 9:31).

When Jesus heard the man had been kicked out of the synagogue, He went and found him and revealed to him that He was the Son of God; then the man believed and worshipped Him (John 9:35-38).
.

 

[Cameron143]

The passage also does not state that God gave Abraham faith and then Abraham believed.

The passage states that God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed what God told him.

And Romans 4 reiterates the Gen 15 passage and makes clear that faith is not works.
.

Agree that the passage doesn't give the source of faith. The imputed righteousness by faith is also correct.

Romans 4 juxtaposes faith and works, but doesn't tell why faith isn't a work.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think you once said you see a difference between belief and faith. As I recall, you were not the only one. Mind reminding me, correcting me, or pointing me to any Scripture you base this on? Short and simple is best for now. I'm looking at a few things and would like to compare.

see here
.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus healing the blind was a sign that He was Messiah ... just as the verses from Matt 11 reveal:

Matthew 11:

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come [Messiah], or do we look for another?

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

the blind receiving sight was a sign that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah.
.

That's not what John 9:3 says. It says...that the works of God may be manifest in him. It doesn't say to fulfill prophecy or authenticate Jesus as Messiah. So there is another reason given by scripture why Jesus did miracles.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe you are born again and I believe you do not love as Christ commanded 24/7/365 ... we all fall short. But that does not mean we cannot love the way the Lord Jesus Christ commanded as love is fruit of the Spirit. The love of Christ is produced in us ... it's His fruit ... we are branches ... we merely hold out the fruit for the world to see.





have you read the verses from Ephesians?

Ephesians 3:

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
.

You just can't admit you are wrong.

 

[Cameron143]

When the Lord Jesus Christ healed the blind man in John 9, the blind man was physically healed and when he was called on the carpet by the pharisees, he told them he believed Jesus was a prophet (John 9:17) ... a worshipper of God (John 9:31).

When Jesus heard the man had been kicked out of the synagogue, He went and found him and revealed to him that He was the Son of God; then the man believed and worshipped Him (John 9:35-38).
.

None of which deals with what we were talking about. I just showed you from scripture another reason for Jesus' miracles. Why can't you just accept it?

 

[NightTwister]

Aren't we supposed to love God to the point of even rejecting all others according to Jesus?

I think my sentiments are correct.

We're supposed to love God the way He loves us.

 

[studier]

see here
.

Thank you!

 

[Jordon]

I didn't use the term bound. I said that the natural man or carnal man is not subject to the law. Neither can he be according to Romans 8. That he does not hear or seek God are other things true of him. I believe all are due to the fact that he is spiritually dead.

Romans 6:17 explains that those who were once in sin now believed from the heart that form of doctrine delivered to them. In the process of saving an individual, God writes His law upon their heart by giving them a new heart...Ezekiel 36:26-27. This is what makes them subject them to the law. It is also what leads to their obedience. The unregenerated man cannot obey the command to believe. But the one who believes from the heart...Romans 10:9. His stony heart will not believe. His heart of flesh will. This is why regeneration must precede salvation.

If a new heart is required to be saved, then those who are saved are saved at the pleasure of God. This is what election and predestination is all about. Before the foundation of the world, God chose a people to Himself.

I realize this doesn't sit well with many people. I do believe it is what scripture teaches.

No worries cam thanks for sharing your faith. , i wrote being bound to law as in respecting the law.
Never wrote in same principle as being bound to sin, yep the wrong terminology to use there.

Or for when I used being bound to the law in terms of the era of the mosaic law and the era for men with works of the law pricking there conscience means being subject to the law. In which to be held accountable with.

Yep I can see how you would not use that phrase.

 

[Jordon]

It was probably the old covenant of the jaw getting a hold on me again lol,

 

[HeIsHere]

Over and over and over........You cannot claim PERSONAL faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So you had better hope you are right.

I have personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.......If I was just elected to have faith? No skin off my back.

You guys go to the extreme to try to convince us you don't have personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You had better hope you are right.


And I am telling you........Repent and put your PERSONAL trust in Christ.

it you flip it around, on this thread we have people telling us they have been elected and defending their election using scripture,

and

they cannot offer a means by which any of us can be elected as well.

They promote and defend an exclusionary "plan" to people (us) who may or may not be already excluded by their god.

That is quite disturbing really, of course determinism (personal, individual, unique selection) hardens people so we should not be surprised