Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

To convict or convince is to bring someone to the point of choosing - to believe and receive, or to remain in unbelief and reject. To be under conviction is to be confronted with truth and pressed to respond - not yet “wholly won over,” which assumes the choice has been made.

NKJ John 16:8 "And when He has come, He will convict-elegchō the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)

[BDAG] ἐλέγχω (elegchō)
1. to scrutinize or examine carefully, bring to light, expose, set forth
2. to bring a pers. to the point of recognizing wrongdoing, convict, convince someone of someth., point someth. out to someone
3. to express strong disapproval of someone’s action, reprove, correct
4. to penalize for wrongdoing, punish, discipline

BDAG places John16:8 under definition #2.

It may be helpful for you to utilize some quality references.

I along with BDAG at minimum reject your defining words again to establish unbiblical arguments. When the Gospel and the Spirit bring a person to the point of recognizing the Truth, they have a choice to make.

I did. Conviction is a settled belief of what is true; an act of being fully persuaded. While it does lead to a point of volition, the result is always action that undergirds the conviction. Those who were pricked in their hearts asked what should they do. Upon being told, they responded as told.
Also, the reason I believe the pricking of the heart is the removing the heart of stone and the giving of a heart of flesh is because of the obedience that followed. Obedience is the reason the heart is given...Ezekiel 36:26-27...and cause you to walk in my statutes. Same reason for the indwelling of the Spirit at that point as well.

 

[Rufus]

What I am saying is that God desires that all come to Christ and the knowledge of the turth but few actually do so the 100 percent is not limited to the few that do find it but to all who have heard the gospel and the turth some hear and receive some hear and recieve but end up falling away and others completely reject it.

God's Dispositional Will and his Decretive Will are two very different things. And even His Preceptive Will differs from both of these. God has never decreed the salvation of all men -- only the salvation of all Abraham's spiritual descendants.

 

[Jordon]

That does not come from the Bible.

nope but a heart of stone is a metaphor for something.

If it was. Real heart of stone it would no doubt turn hem to dust,

Just like when lots wife was turned into stone

 

[Magenta]

nope but a heart of stone is a metaphor for something.

Sure. Hardness of heart toward God.

Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

 

[Blain]

Of course it's truth. God tells us to sow the seed. He does not tell us to try to determine which type of soil each one is (and we can't). We sow, God reaps. He reaps every single one He intends to.

The teaching of the parable is saying that yes we plant the seeds but it will not always be received and he shows that the seeds are planted on all kinds of soil meaning the gospel is preached to all people but if it was 100 successful then all the soil would recieve it.

The idea that he is able to 100 percent be successful in your understanding that he saves who he wants is not found in this parable it clearly shows he desired for the gospel and the kingdom to be recieved otherwise we would not be planting the seeds on all kinds of soil

 

[Kroogz]

Just because you don't find the passage to be spiritually informative doesn't mean I do. Quit projecting your disdain for the Word unto me.

Poor little @Rufus.

You know, the four soils are NOTHING in reformed/calvie/tulip theory. None can believe. None can see. None can hear.

Try again bud.

 

[Blain]

God's Dispositional Will and his Decretive Will are two very different things. And even His Preceptive Will differs from both of these. God has never decreed the salvation of all men -- only the salvation of all Abraham's spiritual descendants.

1 Timothy 2:4, which reads, "who desires all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth".

This is what I am meaning he desires that all come to Christ that is his will

 

[lrs68]

Thanks for the "great insight" to a non sequitur that has nothing to do with 1Jn 5:18!

Do you believe, as RDBD does, that you personally are under the control of the evil one? That Satan sits on the throne of your heart as he does with unbelievers?

No, I believe that as a follower of Almighty God that the majority of the issues I face in life aren't brought forth by neither God or Satan because they are my own doings. Of course I do believe Satan attacks certain aspects of my life and God allows struggles that ultimately brings me closer to relying upon God but for the most part I am my own worst enemy.

 

[lrs68]

How is God wanting, but not succeeding in saving everyone 100% successful? That's an absolute contradiction. You can't just redefine words to fit your theology.

My post doesn't say anything about God wanting.

 

[Kroogz]

Then a truth being taught in the parable is purposely being rejected

YEP. It has no truth in relation to reformed/calvie/tulip theory.

Mankind has to be arbitrarily regenerated/saved. The whole Bible is a parable that cannot be understood according to the reformed/calvie/tulip crowd.

 

[Magenta]

To convict or convince is to bring someone to the point of choosing - to believe and receive, or to remain in unbelief and reject. To be under conviction is to be confronted with truth and pressed to respond - not yet “wholly won over,” which assumes the choice has been made.

Such nonsense. If you are convinced you do not need to choose to believe. You already do.

You conflate erroneously, again.

 

[Kroogz]

Such nonsense. If you are convinced you do not need to choose to believe. You already do.

Ultimate nonsense.

 

[studier]

oh yeah ... i've seen that accusation already from more than one ... they think they can treat others with contempt and disrespect ... they change the parable of the samaritan so they don't have to learn the lesson the Lord Jesus Christ wanted learned ... does not reflect poorly on Scripture ... it reflects poorly on those who claim to be believers and/or born again yet do not learn what the Father wants His children to know.
.

Ironic, really. In James (compared to 1Cor), sandwiched between the teleios in James3:2 (1Cor2:6) and the psuchikē in James3:15 (1Cor2:14) and all the discussion about human vs. Divine wisdom in both of these chapters of Scripture, is all the discussion about the control of the tongue. With the amount of time spent in 1Cor2, you'd think some of this connection would have been made and there would be more conviction.

 

[Jordon]

Sure. Hardness of heart toward God.

Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

Yes. A Hardness in there hearts,.also the same harness that occured in the garden before the fall.

It's understandable you should tie the heart of.stone to this meaning to.

And I'm not disputing this I'm not even disputing only discussing.

Quite often the lord uses the term hardened heart,.and also interpretations say the heart is naturally wicked,.but the lord would not have created the heart naturally wicked, i think we could both agree on that.

So in essence you could say the lord hardened there heart with something to to prevent the natural heart becoming that hard by a nature of turning more rebellious., could that be a heart of spiritual stone ? In which the lord could communicate to them with some kind of a sword between Good and evil ?

 

[Kroogz]

Ironic, really. In James (compared to 1Cor), sandwiched between the teleios in James3:2 (1Cor2:6) and the psuchikē in James3:15 (1Cor2:14) and all the discussion about human vs. Divine wisdom in both of these chapters of Scripture, is all the discussion about the control of the tongue. With the amount of time spent in 1Cor2, you'd think some of this connection would have been made and there would be more conviction.

I look at this thread and I have never been offended. It's a good and thorough debate.

But if the reformed/calvie/tulip theory is correct.......They should ALL be talking through divine "tongue." They have no choice.

Us, mere mortals should get Grace and mercy from them at all times. We have no choice.

 

[cv5]

Rufus ... spreading your lies reveals you must be under the control of the evil one.

I never stated what you claim.
.

 

[Cameron143]

Ironic, really. In James (compared to 1Cor), sandwiched between the teleios in James3:2 (1Cor2:6) and the psuchikē in James3:15 (1Cor2:14) and all the discussion about human vs. Divine wisdom in both of these chapters of Scripture, is all the discussion about the control of the tongue. With the amount of time spent in 1Cor2, you'd think some of this connection would have been made and there would be more conviction.

You mean conviction as being informed? No worries, everyone has been convicted by your definition. Now, conviction that persuades and leads to a positive volitional choice, not so much. So for me, no conviction. For you, there has been plenty of conviction.

 

[Jordon]

Sure. Hardness of heart toward God.

Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

Just take what I'm asking and saying with a pinch of salt

I'm doing some soul searching, because in my mind, i see where being told that our nature was severed from God spiritualy but not only that we then gained the knowledge of all good and evil.

So before that we had little knowledge of good and evil but enough knowledge in our nature for God to pass judgement.

So here we are with a nature that is rebellious that now has the knowledge of good and evil.

its seems so fitting God would place a stone in between good and evil to make us do Good.

Maybe the stone it's self contains all the knowledge of Good and evil. As it would only make sense we would inevitably gain all knowledge one day so why not give it in advance ?

But everyone looks for answers on why the garden happened and why it should reflect on the rest of mankind,.it runs deep for us all. the one thing I can agree with is, it was are very nature that was Judged in the garden where judgement was then passed to all mankind.

 

[Magenta]

Yes. A Hardness in there hearts,.also the same harness that occured in the garden before the fall.

It's understandable you should tie the heart of.stone to this meaning to.

And I'm not disputing this I'm not even disputing only discussing.

Quite often the lord uses the term hardened heart,.and also interpretations say the heart is naturally wicked,.but the lord would not have created the heart naturally wicked, i think we could both agree on that.

So in essence you could say the lord hardened there heart with something to to prevent the natural heart becoming that hard by a nature of turning more rebellious., could that be a heart of spiritual stone ? In which the lord could communicate to them with some kind of a sword between Good and evil ?

Well, I have never said either Adam or Eve's hearts were hardened. We do know that Eve was deceived, and ate first, and then gave
some to Adam, and he ate also, and was held responsible for sin and death entering the world as a result of his disobedience. The fact that Adam was not deceived means he sinned deliberately, but a hardened heart is not in view. And the heart was not created wicked either, it became that way after deciding to disobey God. Gaining knowledge of all good and evil is not in the text either.

 

[cv5]

No need for the parable of the four soils in reformed/calvie/tulip theory.

Likewise no joy in heaven for the sinner that repents.

Yep. No joy......the fruit of determinism. As can be witnessed here 24/7.