Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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reneweddaybyday said:
believers are victims of satan when they fail to stand strong in faith against the wiles of the devil ... and if and when that happens, God has given instruction to the born again one ...

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

and that does not negate the fact that when we sin it is due to being drawn away from the Lord ... and drawn to the things of this world which is under the control of satan.

and don't tell me you don't sin because that would make you a liar ...

1 John 1:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

...

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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IOW, John didn't have clue about what he was writing. He contradicted himself! You have been making a concerted effort to prove that God's saints are also under the control of Satan! You lump the saints in with the ungodly, God-hating world. And in so doing, you tacitly deny/renounce your own salvation which YOU have professed, since YOU are no different from the wicked! In fact, you deny that God keeps his beloved saints SAFE -- even in spite of their occasional sins.

Keep digging that hole deeper....
 
Blain said:
Yep the scriptures are very clear you literally have to rewrite it to make it say
something else in order for them to have their ideas and understanding fit.
I mean it literally says it right there I do not see or understand how
one can not accept this as truth it doesn't even make sense
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They are seasoned in the art of their mental gymnastics... How they think they look:

428f1f773af2455b5e7de81d2ac2541d.gif


What they really look like:

1606262214_1703217

gymnast
 
lrs68 said:
Satan needed permission and specifics to what he could do to Job.
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Thanks for the "great insight" to a non sequitur that has nothing to do with 1Jn 5:18!

Do you believe, as RDBD does, that you personally are under the control of the evil one? That Satan sits on the throne of your heart as he does with unbelievers?
 
Jordon said:
That's one way of looking at I guess.

But Regardless of what condition. Of numbness a person is in or at with a heart of stone.

What's your thoughts on all people being born with heart of stone.

Baring in mind I've already pointed out it's not just a bad thing.

Simply put if being born with a heart of stone was just a bad thing none would be saved in my view.
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To be honest, Jordon, I haven't really been following your discussion on this subject so I'm not current with it,
but just to be clear, my post was intended as humor - guess I didn't it do too well with it though - my delivery still needs a lot of work.
Anyway, and again not being familiar what's been said before, generally speaking, I think the condition of the spiritual heart is a barometer as to whether someone has been saved or not, as God gives a new spiritual heart to those whom He places under the New Covenant (NC) - the covenant of His freely given mercy, grace, and salvation.
Those with a spiritual heart of stone are spiritually dead, unable to truly grasp and discern things spiritual. So, in light of that, I would definitely say that a heart of stone is a bad thing - although those with it can still be used by God for His purposes. Just about everyone with few exceptions, came into this world unsaved and therefore, having a heart of stone.
Bear in mind though that we are not saved because of what we may or may not do nor have done even with that heart of stone. So should we become saved, it is because we've freely been accredited with that which Jesus had achieved - His righteousness, His faith, and His works - and given a heart of flesh -all of His work, none of it ours -this is what makes Him Savior and us not.
 
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Rufus said:
IOW, John didn't have clue about what he was writing. He contradicted himself! You have been making a concerted effort to prove that God's saints are also under the control of Satan! You lump the saints in with the ungodly, God-hating world. And in so doing, you tacitly deny/renounce your own salvation which YOU have professed, since YOU are no different from the wicked! In fact, you deny that God keeps his beloved saints SAFE -- even in spite of their occasional sins.

Keep digging that hole deeper....
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This is a bit much that is not what they are saying at all
 
NightTwister said:
How is God wanting, but not succeeding in saving everyone 100% successful? That's an absolute contradiction. You can't just redefine words to fit your theology.
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It is not 100 percent successful after all Jesus said that narrow is the way and few find it, he also said that many are called but few are chosen and he even spoke of the parable of the sower of seeds as well
 
Blain said:
It is not 100 percent successful after all Jesus said that narrow is the way and few find it, he also said that
many are called but few are chosen and he even spoke of the parable of the sower of seeds as well
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They don't like some of those parables, since they prefer to have the bad tree bringing forth good fruit, with the stony ground
of man's heart receiving and growing unto faith the seed of God's Word even though a multitude of verses speak against such.
 
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studier said:
The Gospel and the Spirit put unbelievers under conviction—or, translated another way, work to convince them of Truth. They do not fail, but faithfully present Truth for the unbeliever to choose to believe or to reject.
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To convict or convince is not merely to present truth but to fully persuade to belief in the truth. You can't say one is actually convinced if they aren't fully persuaded. To fall short of conviction is simply to inform. If someone is under conviction, they are not only informed, but wholly won over.
 
Magenta said:
God replaces the heart of stone because it is incurably wicked.
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ah is where many different beliefs stem from I wonder ?

Magenta said:
God replaces the heart of stone because it is incurably wicked.
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are you sure it's the heart of stone that incurably wicked or the heart that the heart of stone was placed in is incurably wicked ?

I say this because the phrase heart of stone is metaphor, not literal.

We could be assuming anything of course.
 
Jordon said:
ah is where many different beliefs stem from I wonder ?

are you sure it's the heart of stone that incurably wicked or the heart that the heart of stone was placed in is incurably wicked ?

I say this because the phrase heart of stone if metaphor, not literal.

We could be assuming anything of course.
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The heart of stone is the one that needs replacing. It is the one man is born with.

I am going by what Scripture says. Man's heart of stone is replaced so he may love God as He desires, and live.

An incurably wicked heart does not love God.

Deuteronomy30-6s.png

Deuteronomy 30 v 6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.:)
 
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Magenta said:
They don't like some of those parables, since they prefer to have the bad tree bringing forth good fruit, with the stony ground
of man's heart receiving and growing unto faith the seed of God's Word even though a multitude of verses speak against such.
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The problem is that people are so stuck to their own beliefs that they flat out deny scripture or try to twist it to say something else. I ran into this issue with a catholic on the topic or worshipping Mary the bible clearly says to only worship God but they tried to make the word worship mean something else when it clearly does not mean anything else and they say that worshipping mary is honoring her not the literal worship meaning

And so you cannot reason with such people because no matter what you present they refuse to budge in their understanding this is why we have so many so called teachers and very few students the inability to learn and admit you might be wrong is the main issue with most believers
 
Blain said:
It is not 100 percent successful after all Jesus said that narrow is the way and few find it, he also said that many are called but few are chosen and he even spoke of the parable of the sower of seeds as well
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Soo... you're suggesting that less than 100% of the "few" find the narrow way? You seem to be assuming that God intended for all people to find that narrow way. But...if the "few" are indeed God's elect, then I'd say God has a 100% success rate going for Him.
 
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rogerg said:
To be honest, Jordon, I haven't really been following your discussion on this subject so I'm not current with it,
but just to be clear, my post was intended as humor - guess I didn't it do too well with it though - my delivery still needs a lot of work.
Anyway, and again not being familiar what's been said before, generally speaking, I think the condition of the spiritual heart is a barometer as to whether someone has been saved or not, as God gives a new spiritual heart to those whom He places under the New Covenant (NC) - the covenant of His freely given mercy, grace, and salvation.
Those with a spiritual heart of stone are spiritually dead, unable to truly grasp and discern things spiritual. So, in light of that, I would definitely say that a heart of stone is a bad thing - although those with it can still be used by God for His purposes. Just about everyone with few exceptions, came into this world unsaved and therefore, having a heart of stone.
Bear in mind though that we are not saved because of what we may or may not do nor have done even with that heart of stone. So should we become saved, it is because we've freely been accredited with that which Jesus had achieved - His righteousness, His faith, and His works - and given a heart of flesh -all of His work, none of it ours -this is what makes Him Savior and us not.
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hence where the problem sits I believe because in your post you've affirmed what I believe

What's placed in the heart of mankind is a spiritual heart of stone.

How could that spiritual heart of stone die ? If it's been place in the heart, because something has been placed as God remove it,

They never had a spiritual heart of stone before they where born in the garden or did they ?

If of course a person only sees a spiritual heart of stone as a bad thing. Then of course where at a loss in understanding.
 
Colossians2-13-14s.png

Colossians 2 verses 13-14 ~ When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross!
:)
 
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Blain said:
It is not 100 percent successful after all Jesus said that narrow is the way and few find it, he also said that many are called but few are chosen and he even spoke of the parable of the sower of seeds as well
Click to expand...
So God is 100% successful but also less than 100% successful?
 
Ezekiel36-25-26s.png

Ezekiel 36 verses 25-26 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
 
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Magenta said:
God's Word does not say that. Not even close. The heart of stone is replaced with one of flesh, for the reason given in Deut 30:6.
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It's not clear on my mind exactly what a heart of flesh is.

Is it clear in your mind ?

Well the heart of flesh could mean a renewed heart of flesh now that the existing heart of flesh has been tamed by the heart of stone
 
Rufus said:
in spite of their occasional sins.
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rolleyes ... when you sin, it's not God tempting you ...

James 1:

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


vs 13 – God does not tempt anyone with evil ...

vs 14-15 – every one is temped with evil when he or she is drawn away from God through the lusts of the flesh ... the world which lies in wickedness influences the flesh and we are drawn away ... enticed ...


and God promises that He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness as we confess our sin in turning away from Him to the things of this world ... God is faithful and just for forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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